All,

I was wondering what ya’ll think our chances are of ever changing the Democratic party position on the 2nd Amendment (that it’s an individual right, not a collective right). Or the thought that the Democrats would no longer seek gun control measures as a REAL party position/ideology.

Currently they begrudgingly are not seeking any gun control measures, but I believe that to be a position of political expediency, not one of ideology.

So I’m wondering if anyone thinks the leftist pro-gun movement will ever be large enough to change the gun ideology of the Democratic party?

FrontSight wrote:All,

I was wondering what ya’ll think our chances are of ever changing the Democratic party position on the 2nd Amendment (that it’s an individual right, not a collective right). Or the thought that the Democrats would no longer seek gun control measures as a REAL party position/ideology.

Currently they begrudgingly are not seeking any gun control measures, but I believe that to be a position of political expediency, not one of ideology.

So I’m wondering if anyone thinks the leftist pro-gun movement will ever be large enough to change the gun ideology of the Democratic party?

I believe their anti gun ideology was due to political expediency. It all depends on how much money the antis are willing to dump into their coffers.

I bloody well hope so. In the last 30-40 years the anti-gun policies have been completely ineffective, and where they've been enacted and enforced the strongest, they've only exacerbated the very problems they sought to solve. IMO they have discredited themselves. Holding up examples like NZ and parts of Europe does nothing because the cultures are so frantically different. Our people struggle against desperation, and that in itself is, I believe, the biggest contributor to violent crime and this has been borne our by research. Our drug policies and health care systems are also incomparable. We need to solve much larger societal issues before we again seek to curtail the rifts of the free.

Not only on the gun issue, I have found the democrats moving further and further away from me. I really doubt I'll vote for them again. Although living in california my vote doesn't make much difference anyway.
I would be very happy if people wouls start to see guns as tools again rather than ythe sexualised fetishized objects the media and both sides of the gun debate have Made them.

The Dem team will come back this way.

Good times breed selfish neocons, as a good base standard of living is had by all and there is tolerance for greed.

Bad times breeds socialist communal bonds of teamwork without rampant personal gain, as only with concerted effort by a group can all have a hood standard of living.

We are in for continued bad times, maybe even a further crunch, and the pressure will spotlight the necessity for people to watch their own (individual and home group's) asses.

That means guns for security against predators.


Life Is A Highway - I'm on Tapatalk

I think it's become far less of a Democratic hot point. When Obama made Eric Holder attorney general 65 Democrats in congress sent Holder a warning: don't even think about trying to reinstate the assault weapon ban!

More and more I seem to run into only three types of people that have real grievances about gun ownership:

Screaming man hating female leftists who claim that guns are just phallic boom sticks for cave men (my sister is a fine example of this).

Crazy old hippies who still think peace drugs and flowers are the answer to everything (this actually describes several close friends of mine who give me shit about my guns all the time).

And some wealthy republicans who get really nervous about the proletariate being armed regardless of their political affiliation (this group would include the guy I work for). The number of anti gun repugs I've encountered has really surprised me.

On the other end of the spectrum I meet more and more Democrats that don't have an issue with gun ownership, or at least aren't completely opposed to it, and may even be a gun owner themselves.

If they realize that their voting base will support gun ownership with no further controls as a core part of their needs, they would have no choice.

I think that the Democratic party is suffering a bit of an identity crisis. Remembering that back in the 50's & 60's, maybe into the 70's, todays just right of center republican was otherwise known as a Southern Democrat.

The Cons are old hands at this, having been though it what, three times in the last 25 years? We had the Eisenhower Republicans who were a world apart from the Reagan Republicans who are not even on the same planet as the Palin twit brigade...(wonder if I can copyright that?)

From my perspective, Obama is close to making Nixon look like a communist.

2A is carved in stone; the supremes have said so, and while a very large part of the left is wanting to pound swords, I suspect that the inability to function with anything resembling unity will prevent any effort on the part of the democrats to find traction.

Put another way, democrats define dysfunctional by looking in the mirror.

I would also expect that the next avenue of approach would be sales restrictions on ammunition and propellents...

Much of it is demographic. Democratic politicians are mostly elected from urban areas that often have high crime rates and their simplistic knee jerk response to crime has been to ban guns. Demos elected in suburban and rural areas or from conservative states either avoid the topic or campaign for pro gun rights. The Democratic Party won't call a press conference to reject it's gun control stance, I believe it will just fade away. Of course the NRA will take total credit for this change.

Ima put it out there that the Dem party is not necessarily "our party" to all members of this forum. Just saying, is all.

MtnMan wrote:Ima put it out there that the Dem party is not necessarily "our party" to all members of this forum. Just saying, is all.

Yep, and as somebody else said, they're moving further and further away from me. Closer to the corporations. We need a viable multi-party system not this two part monopoly.

AmirMortal wrote:

MtnMan wrote:Ima put it out there that the Dem party is not necessarily "our party" to all members of this forum. Just saying, is all.

Yep, and as somebody else said, they're moving further and further away from me. Closer to the corporations. We need a viable multi-party system not this two part monopoly.

Canada had a Federal election last month and the ruling Conservative party won, but the official opposition is not the long dominate Liberal Party but the New Democratics (they came in second) a social democratic party. Maybe there is hope for us as our progressive neighbor to the North shows us the way.

Each party flips their issues about every decade but somewhere along the way Rs lost their fucking minds. They're not as much a political party as they're a squadron of kamikazies.

AmirMortal wrote:I bloody well hope so. In the last 30-40 years the anti-gun policies have been completely ineffective, and where they've been enacted and enforced the strongest, they've only exacerbated the very problems they sought to solve. IMO they have discredited themselves. Holding up examples like NZ and parts of Europe does nothing because the cultures are so frantically different. Our people struggle against desperation, and that in itself is, I believe, the biggest contributor to violent crime and this has been borne our by research. Our drug policies and health care systems are also incomparable. We need to solve much larger societal issues before we again seek to curtail the rifts of the free.

+1
I believe some of that desperation your talking about is due to pure laziness combined with a drug or alcohol habbit/non-parenting/bad parenting/one parent/peers with same problem/pack like dogs/rob gas station. This shit combined with phyco brings gun to school because he got picked on or left out, gives guns a bad name. Like you and others said, change the peoples habbits, the peoples attitudes and the structure of our society and less bullets will fly in the wrong direction.

And that's what this group is all about right? A place for us to meet, share and hopefully make a difference in a big way. I'd say we're on the right track and moving forward!

AmirMortal wrote:

MtnMan wrote:Ima put it out there that the Dem party is not necessarily "our party" to all members of this forum. Just saying, is all.

Yep, and as somebody else said, they're moving further and further away from me. Closer to the corporations. We need a viable multi-party system not this two part monopoly.

We had this discussion at work today. Two party monopoly is right on! Problem is any outsider or independant gets sued till they're broke.

[quote="JayFromPA"]The Dem team will come back this way.


Bad times breeds socialist communal bonds of teamwork without rampant personal gain, as only with concerted effort by a group can all have a hood standard of living.

We are in for continued bad times, maybe even a further crunch, and the pressure will spotlight the necessity for people to watch their own (individual and home group's) asses.

Well said. I think this shit but cant say it.

Sonofagun wrote:

JayFromPA wrote:The Dem team will come back this way.


Bad times breeds socialist communal bonds of teamwork without rampant personal gain, as only with concerted effort by a group can all have a hood standard of living.

We are in for continued bad times, maybe even a further crunch, and the pressure will spotlight the necessity for people to watch their own (individual and home group's) asses.

Well said. I think this shit but cant say it.

Yeah, I often feel the same when reading this forum. Written language is not my strong suit. For one thing I think too fast for how slowly I type. Some people have a silver tongue, whereas I think mine is made of lead. We have some very eloquent members here, and they regularly manage to express ideas in ways I simply couldn't.

For example whenever Caliman makes a series of posts here it drives me nuts because I find myself just following him around agreeing with everything he says; knowing that I could never phrase things the way he does, but loving reading the posts all the same. In fact, if I had the ability, I would draft him to be the official LGC spokesperson. That fellow has my standing nomination.

AmirMortal wrote:

Sonofagun wrote:

JayFromPA wrote:The Dem team will come back this way.


Bad times breeds socialist communal bonds of teamwork without rampant personal gain, as only with concerted effort by a group can all have a hood standard of living.

We are in for continued bad times, maybe even a further crunch, and the pressure will spotlight the necessity for people to watch their own (individual and home group's) asses.

Well said. I think this shit but cant say it.

Yeah, I often feel the same when reading this forum. Written language is not my strong suit. For one thing I think too fast for how slowly I type. Some people have a silver tongue, whereas I think mine is made of lead. We have some very eloquent members here, and they regularly manage to express ideas in ways I simply couldn't.

For example whenever Caliman makes a series of posts here it drives me nuts because I find myself just following him around agreeing with everything he says; knowing that I could never phrase things the way he does, but loving reading the posts all the same. In fact, if I had the ability, I would draft him to be the official LGC spokesperson. That fellow has my standing nomination.

+2