Spent 3 hours yesterday at Shiloh and walked what the Confederates called the Hornet's Nest, and the Union soldiers the Bloody Lane. I'm just in awe walking a piece of American History like that. Found a guide who was the chairman of the local Sons of Confederate Veterans, who had ancestors that owned land on the battlefield site at the time of the battle, and was a reenactor to boot. Great fun with this guy. He's got a huge collection of relics, and gave me a Confederate minie ball from the battle. The most poignant pieces he showed me were bullets deeply deformed by human teeth. Amazing power in a human jaw.

I've always been interested in the Civil War, but haven't got around to visiting any battlefields. Maybe one day.

Tell me about teeth on bullets. I understood they needed to bite open the bottom of the cartridge (waxed paper, I think) before stuffing it down the bore, to make it easier for the percussion cap to ignite the powder. But that would be the opposite end of the cartridge from the bullet/Minie ball.

So how do you think these came to have teeth marks?

Shiloh was horrible because both sides were green. They didn't know when to quit.

larrymod wrote:So how do you think these came to have teeth marks?

Probably from the unspeakable fear of standing in a line formation trying to reload their rifles and not realizing how high they were biting. The archeological evidence suggests that most soldiers on either side were so frightened that the bulk majority of them were essentially useless in the fight from either shooting high, improper loading of their rifles, or overloading their rifles. It wasn't uncommon to find rifles with two or more balls down the barrel because the shooter didn't realize their weapon hadn't fired properly and kept loading over and over again with no effect.

No, the bullets were what they bit on as the doc was sawing off arms and legs without anesthesia. A .69 caliber bullet wouldn't just fracture a bone, but splinter it, pulverize it. Along with the fact they didn't know of any effective antiseptic, if the limb was left attached the bone splinters in your bloodstream would pretty much do the job on your brain. So a limb hit that hit the bone, most of them, meant the limb had to go.

Antiquus wrote:No, the bullets were what they bit on as the doc was sawing off arms and legs without anesthesia. A .69 caliber bullet wouldn't just fracture a bone, but splinter it, pulverize it. Along with the fact they didn't know of any effective antiseptic, if the limb was left attached the bone splinters in your bloodstream would pretty much do the job on your brain. So a limb hit that hit the bone, most of them, meant the limb had to go.

Thats kind of what I thought I wouldn't be surprised if the civil war was the source of the term "bite the bullet". Supplying artificial limbs to veterans monopolised many state budgets after the war.

The term " bite the bullet" was coined by Rudyard Kipling in his novel The Light That Failed ( 1891 ). It is a literary device.
In the ACW surgeons usually had access to adequate supplies of chloroform to treat casualties even after huge battles like Gettysburg. Prior to anasthesia soldiers undergoing surgery would bite on a leather strap- biting down on a bullet would have shattered the patient's teeth.
The Minie balls you were shown were probably deformed after hitting a solid object. Who knows- it could have been someone's teeth.

I was looking at an imprint of a human molar. Clear as hell. I held it in my hand. The tip of that bullet touched nothing, and the bullet was flattened.

I'm sure by Gettysburg the Union had chloroform, but this was Shiloh, spring of 1862, the first massive battle, the one that woke up the country to the fact this wasn't going to be pretty. I'm also doubtful what the Army of the Potomac or the Army of Northern Virginia had got out to this battle, far to the west, away from the sources of money and supply, especially this early. For example my guide stated there was 54 separate artillery rounds used at Shiloh, pretty much an indication they used whatever they could find. At Gettysburg the number is about 12, far more standardization, and far better supply. The confederates also had a similar situation with small arms, as evidenced by a lot of 'buck and ball' loads - 1 bullet & 3 rounds of buckshot out of a smoothbore musket. Sherman was shot through the hand buy a buckshot pellet.

The armies involved were the Confederate Army of Missisippi, under General Albert Sidney Johnston and two Federal forces: The Army of the Ohio under General John Carlos Buell and the Army of The Tennesse under Grant.
Buck and ball was the standard ammunition for smoothbore muskets in American armies since the War of 1812. It would have still been standard issue in 1862, not something scrounged out of desperation. The Rebs had some crappy weapons- flintlocks, shotguns, garbage scrapped out of European arsenals- but generally they were well supplied with ammunition.
I'm not saying that someone didn't bite on that musket ball you were shown. But I have heard battlefield guides stretch the truth from time to time to increase dramatic effect.

I've visited Vicksburg...

http://www.nps.gov/vick/index.htm

http://www.nps.gov/vick/u-s-s-cairo-gunboat.htm

War is hell? No shit.

Xela

the comedian wrote:The armies involved were the Confederate Army of Missisippi, under General Albert Sidney Johnston and two Federal forces: The Army of the Ohio under General John Carlos Buell and the Army of The Tennesse under Grant.
Buck and ball was the standard ammunition for smoothbore muskets in American armies since the War of 1812. It would have still been standard issue in 1862, not something scrounged out of desperation. The Rebs had some crappy weapons- flintlocks, shotguns, garbage scrapped out of European arsenals- but generally they were well supplied with ammunition.
I'm not saying that someone didn't bite on that musket ball you were shown. But I have heard battlefield guides stretch the truth from time to time to increase dramatic effect.

By the time of Shiloh the armies had no illusions that rifles were far more deadly, smoothbores limited to 100 yards and less even with buck and ball. Grant's statement about smoothbores was a man at 125 yards would have a hard time understanding you were shooting at him.

True what you are saying, the South never wanted for shot or powder for small arms, but that was a miracle of human effort by the Confederate Ordinance dept which fortunately had some very capable men in the right spots. However, you had standardization of arms in proportion to your distance from Richmond in the Confederate Army due to limitations in production and transportation. Johnston's army had a lot of smoothbores, and a significant amount of privately owned guns. A couple of years later everybody had rifled pieces.

Xela - Vicksburg is a gem, 2 things not to miss is the Cairo and the Illinois memorial. Every man from Illinois who served had a name on the wall. A war memorial done right.

At Shiloh there is one small but hugely cool monument to a Minnesota private. He was killed, and buried at the foot of the tree, his name inscribed on the tree and hash marks placed on the tree above this to show future woodcutters to cut above the line and leave the name. After the war the bodies that could be identified were transferred to a cemetery on the grounds, and the private was so transferred. But the stump was still there, duly cut above the hash mark, a nice consideration by a Southerner. The Minnesota veterans of the unit dug the stump up and made a concrete cast of it and it stands in the same spot, the only monument to a private soldier on any Civil War battlefield.

Antiquus wrote:Xela - Vicksburg is a gem, 2 things not to miss is the Cairo and the Illinois memorial. Every man from Illinois who served had a name on the wall. A war memorial done right.

There are many special moments that have made me feel like an American...being part of protests (in support of freedom of speech, and a Cuban-American Friendshipment), voting, showing up for jury duty, obtaining my citizenship...

But none have made me feel the sense awe, and American pride (not easy for me), and have made me feel the full weight of responsability of being an American, as when I visited Vicksburg...

To see those monuments, Illinois, Indiana, New York, Texas...still gives me goosebumps...

Honestly, all National Monuments, or related historical museums do it for me, Civil Rights Museum in Memphis...the USS Kidd in Baton Rouge...etc...etc...

Xela

The most awe-inspiring battlefield I've been to is Sharpsburg (Antietam). Other than the visitor center, it is almost unchanged. It's spooky to say the least, to think that the bloodiest single day of combat in American history could take place on such a quiet corner of the earth.

I also just finished Owen Parry's "Call Each River Jordan". The opening scene is the battle of Shiloh and it's a very well-done piece of fiction.

I have visited Gettysburg - it was similarly awesome (in the true sense of the word). I have also been to the battle site at Mannsfield, LA.

But one of the most interesting to me was the Little Bighorn Battlefield site. I really enjoyed it.

If you go to any of the civil war battlefields, set aside about $100 or so and hire a local historian - they are usually $20-$30 an hour. I did this at Shiloh, Antietam and Gettysburg and the richness of the experience is amplified and I think it's well worth the money.

Here's an example of the detail - at Gettysburg we stood on a hill west of town near a monument put up in the early 1930's. At the dedication to the monument several hundred veterans were there from both sides - all in their 80's and 90's. The guide took me to a spot and told me the following about the 3" ordnance rifle which is pretty well regarded as the best light ordnance piece in the Civil War.

A old Union artilleryman was standing at this spot, and asked if he could hit that barn (about 3/4 of a mile away). He said that was no problem, he could hit the barn the first shot. He thought a moment and then said "I can get it in the window (like 36" sq) on about the 3rd shot".