The Liberal Gun Club Forum

I am not sure whether this will go and I am not even sure what I am trying to get at, but recent events (not just Foxgirl) have got me thinking about the level of honesty on forums like LGC.

I try to take everyone here at their word, mainly cause that is all I have to go on. Although I do not share every aspect of my life on the forums, I try to be consistent with my views and have never thought of taking on a different persona to argue or sway the conversation in any way.

It's funny, I looked up my username on Yahoo Search. I try to use the same user name on the forums to which I subscribe. I figured that it might serve to keep me a little more honest. Anyway, I guess I am just wondering what your views are on "internet honesty". I know we all say "death to trolls" and such, but I am just thinking about how consistent you all think your views would be if someone did an internet search of your username or names if you use multiple?

Caliman73 wrote:I am just thinking about how consistent you all think your views would be if someone did an internet search of your username or names if you use multiple?

You're free to check opencarry.org for my posts, my views don't change, they might evolve, but they don't change. Unless someone can make a logical counter argument.

It would be faster to googe the work "fuckers" to find all my posts.

Oldskool wrote:It would be faster to googe the work "fuckers" to find all my posts.

I am not suggesting that anyone should google or search out people's posts. Just wanting to have a discussion about communication mostly. I see the internet as an opportunity to discuss issues with people from diverse background (I say as I post on a LIBERAL website). Seriously though, we all come from different areas and life experiences. Some from Mexico or Mexican-Americans, living in Texas and California, theater engineers living in Arizona, Lawyers from Colorado, Yoopers (I still don't know what that is). Therapists, military guys, etc...

We are like minded in that we were looking at an alternative to the hardcore right wing dominated gun boards, but we have some significant differences too. That is what makes things interesting. My aim is just to get people thinking and talking about identity, integrity, and communication over a medium that frankly, makes lying very easy.

look up artie_bucco on Democratic Underground and you will see me defending gun ownership. Using a lot of the quotes I have used, Debs in particular. That and I emphasize how I am not a typical gun owner with me being a: Socialist, union member, a college student and Mexican.

I also lurked on many gun board. I rarely posted though I couldn't stand the knuckle-draggers.

I agree with you that lying is a lot easier online, but I think there's already a certain amount of running dishonesty that your average person gives and takes in-person.

I guess the question on my mind is what causes a person to want to troll/rabblerouse? It's fun to stir the s--t up once in a while, but at what point does doing so on a daily become a pathology? We've had our share of bizzare, trolly-types here that seemed to love the attention.

But to keep with the theme here, I'm generally the same clowny guy no matter what medium. I find life too painful to really be open and forthcoming with my inner workings all of the time.

Oh, and I have a 12-inch penis and make 600 k/ per year.

Frankly... this is the first place I've used this name

But, under a similar handle I squatted over at Hi-Point Firearms Forums for many years and contributed alot of work to their current setup and trying to keep the rabble at bay until I just couldn't put up with the general pro-Fox jingoistic attitude in most gun culture and snapped. Well, it wasn't a snap but more of a taking-my-ball-and-going-home maneuver.

But, when you come to honesty and consistency I'm still the raving, ranting broke-as-a-joke Liberal gun owner who loves cheap guns and Vespas. Still refuse to learn on how to back down from a fight when it's warranted and until I met my lovely wife, always the guy with pretty vicious ex's

Anonymity on the internet is a myth. Eventually, the liars out themselves. Its a lot harder to remember all the lies you have told than it is to remember the truth.

Zapp Brannigan wrote:look up artie_bucco on Democratic Underground and you will see me defending gun ownership. Using a lot of the quotes I have used, Debs in particular. That and I emphasize how I am not a typical gun owner with me being a: Socialist, union member, a college student and Mexican.

I also lurked on many gun board. I rarely posted though I couldn't stand the knuckle-draggers.

I've seen your name at DU. I use the same name there as here. That and Gun Toting Liberals is where I first saw Xela as well. I could have sworn he was a woman, and I don't know how I came to that conclusion. I got tired of having the same arguments there over and over so I stuck mostly with the General Discussion, but that got kinda old too so now I am mostly here. There were some characters on DU and some complete tools.

Here's my issue, and you bring up good points, but you're always going to have issues communicating, especially on the internet. The thing about the internet isn't so much people lying, but people saying whatever the hell's on their mind without worrying about someone punching them in the face or taking serious offense to what they say. Take Yahoo! for example. There are a lot of people on those political stories saying "nigger this and nigger that," but I guarantee none of them would have the sack to say it in public. Then you have other people who are over sensitive about pointless shit that gets them spun up and people clash because someone read something wrong or took something too seriously. I wouldn't be surprised if someone responds with "Did you really have to say nigger, couldn't you say 'the N word' instead?" One of the biggest issues in this nation, not just the internet, are people's fragile sensibilities which take statements out of context because they're looking for things which will offend them. So, some people shouldn't be assholes, and others need to grow thicker skin and pay attention to context.

Not trying to stir the pot, take it for what its worth.

Inquisitor wrote:Anonymity on the internet is a myth. Eventually, the liars out themselves. Its a lot harder to remember all the lies you have told than it is to remember the truth.

I think you are mostly correct on that one. As more people get savvy about the internet, it does get easier to find foot prints. Still, it is not super difficult to concoct a little story and play it. But you are correct, it eventually implodes under its own weight.

I don't even remember where I started posting first. I think it might have been a relationship website checking out information for divorced parents looking to get back into dating. When I started getting back in to firearms, I naturally went to wherever I could.

Anyway, interesting discussion. Judge, I have heard that anything over 8 is a waste, but knock yourself out.

I wonder why somebody would, under the perception of anonymity, lie? I mean, when all is said and done, and one knows that what they are saying isn't true, what kind of charge can they possibly get out of it?

As for our friendly trolls, theirs is a twisted view of reality to begin with.

Ok good post, I feel guilty about how I've been dishonest about my self the past year or so. The internet gives losers like me the chance to project them selves as some thing else what they wish they would have become instead of their humdrum station in life, so I'm coming clean, I'm not a RR conductor I'm ah I'm a brain surgeon. Oh my science that was hard.

rolandson wrote:As for our friendly trolls, theirs is a twisted view of reality to begin with.

I thought they were banned?

ABNinfantryman wrote:Here's my issue, and you bring up good points, but you're always going to have issues communicating, especially on the internet. The thing about the internet isn't so much people lying, but people saying whatever the hell's on their mind without worrying about someone punching them in the face or taking serious offense to what they say. Take Yahoo! for example. There are a lot of people on those political stories saying "nigger this and nigger that," but I guarantee none of them would have the sack to say it in public. Then you have other people who are over sensitive about pointless shit that gets them spun up and people clash because someone read something wrong or took something too seriously. I wouldn't be surprised if someone responds with "Did you really have to say nigger, couldn't you say 'the N word' instead?" One of the biggest issues in this nation, not just the internet, are people's fragile sensibilities which take statements out of context because they're looking for things which will offend them. So, some people shouldn't be assholes, and others need to grow thicker skin and pay attention to context.

Not trying to stir the pot, take it for what its worth.

The facelessness of the internet is a VERY good point! People get brave when they're behind a screen on the other side of the country, especially when they get to do it to others who are willing to put more of an identity out there without having to sacrifice anything of their personal ID

ABNinfantryman wrote:Here's my issue, and you bring up good points, but you're always going to have issues communicating, especially on the internet. The thing about the internet isn't so much people lying, but people saying whatever the hell's on their mind without worrying about someone punching them in the face or taking serious offense to what they say. Take Yahoo! for example. There are a lot of people on those political stories saying "nigger this and nigger that," but I guarantee none of them would have the sack to say it in public. Then you have other people who are over sensitive about pointless shit that gets them spun up and people clash because someone read something wrong or took something too seriously. I wouldn't be surprised if someone responds with "Did you really have to say nigger, couldn't you say 'the N word' instead?" One of the biggest issues in this nation, not just the internet, are people's fragile sensibilities which take statements out of context because they're looking for things which will offend them. So, some people shouldn't be assholes, and others need to grow thicker skin and pay attention to context.

Not trying to stir the pot, take it for what its worth.

Interpersonal communication is a miracle in and of itself ABN. I think you are right as well as what Judge and the others were saying. The sense of anonymity allows people to make outrageous statements that they would not say in public, although as Inquisitor said, it is a myth and as many a young person is finding out through social media, that stuff stays with you and can jack you up in the future.

I am a context person myself with regards to language and offensiveness. I think it is acceptable to write or say nigger when describing the actions of others, for example, "Ice Cube used the word nigger frequently in his early rap career". I think that it is a different story when people use the word to denigrate a person by equating them with the racist etymology of the term. I think that there is some validity to what you say about people's "fragile sensibilities" but the other side of that is the very real, very ugly history of some of the words used to demean people. You demean people and dehumanize them in order to oppress and commit violence against them.

neotrotsky wrote:

ABNinfantryman wrote:Here's my issue, and you bring up good points, but you're always going to have issues communicating, especially on the internet. The thing about the internet isn't so much people lying, but people saying whatever the hell's on their mind without worrying about someone punching them in the face or taking serious offense to what they say. Take Yahoo! for example. There are a lot of people on those political stories saying "nigger this and nigger that," but I guarantee none of them would have the sack to say it in public. Then you have other people who are over sensitive about pointless shit that gets them spun up and people clash because someone read something wrong or took something too seriously. I wouldn't be surprised if someone responds with "Did you really have to say nigger, couldn't you say 'the N word' instead?" One of the biggest issues in this nation, not just the internet, are people's fragile sensibilities which take statements out of context because they're looking for things which will offend them. So, some people shouldn't be assholes, and others need to grow thicker skin and pay attention to context.

Not trying to stir the pot, take it for what its worth.

The facelessness of the internet is a VERY good point! People get brave when they're behind a screen on the other side of the country, especially when they get to do it to others who are willing to put more of an identity out there without having to sacrifice anything of their personal ID

I still remember LACowboy wanting to send his address out so that he could fight, I don't even remember who, after a particularly heated thread. That was classic.

I try not to say anything I would not say to someone's face although I have gotten a bit more heated online than I would normally. I try to avoid physical confrontation now that I am older, wiser, WAY more out of shape, and have a great deal more to lose.

The Internet is wierd. We CANNOT see body language, hear tone, see facial expressions, get ANY of the clues we use in day to day conversation. Yet, we pretend we can. we assign identity to these faceless foes based on people we know, and then hear THEIR voices and see THEIR faces.

Which leads to a lot of wierd interactions between people who would probably be happy to have a beer with one another

Caliman73 wrote:Interpersonal communication is a miracle in and of itself ABN. I think you are right as well as what Judge and the others were saying. The sense of anonymity allows people to make outrageous statements that they would not say in public, although as Inquisitor said, it is a myth and as many a young person is finding out through social media, that stuff stays with you and can jack you up in the future.

Yeah but that really only applies to social media sites where your name is blasted all over, that's just the youth being stupid. If I were to run a proxy and set up a name like "AlaskaLib" it'd be too easy to run with it and you'd never know who I was. Yahoo! for example still allows you to post under an anonymous user ID even if you're logged in and only they would know you left the comment, no matter how much a future employer or whoever searches your name or username. So I'd have to disagree with Inquisitor. Until everyone has a static IP and all websites identify you by the name you select for that IP, and even then you still have proxy servers, you'll always have anonymity on the internet if you choose to use it.

I am a context person myself with regards to language and offensiveness. I think it is acceptable to write or say nigger when describing the actions of others, for example, "Ice Cube used the word nigger frequently in his early rap career". I think that it is a different story when people use the word to denigrate a person by equating them with the racist etymology of the term. I think that there is some validity to what you say about people's "fragile sensibilities" but the other side of that is the very real, very ugly history of some of the words used to demean people. You demean people and dehumanize them in order to oppress and commit violence against them.

I understand that, and thats what I mean when I say people are looking to be offended. Even if there's a deeply rooted psychological reason behind it, they're still doing it, and they need to take a step back and look at what the person's really trying to say. On the flip side of that is a very narrow line called humor. It's a very dynamic issue which is based a lot on how people take something to heart and value it, just gotta learn how to figure out what's important and what's not. Generally I'm not bothered by words so much as ideas which people put forth as legitimate.

And allow me to add, I hope to see AdAstra and ArmedLeftist at the meet, I'm sure most of the friction between us has been poor translation of my thoughts to word on my part.

Interesting questions and comments.

I have one other internet handle I used a DKos, Eschaton, Agonist, FireDoglake, and similar political blogs: "grassroot". The two names evolved independently and innocently (e.g., not for purposes of sock-puppetry), though I now wish I had used only one name.

Aside from that question of one vs. multiple web names, there is the question of why I feel it necessary to hide my real-world identity at all.

I'm certainly not under any illusion that my real identity is hidden from a determined investigator, but, but, but, I just feel better not make it REAL EASY to link my frankly expressed political views to my real name. (I'm not thinking of my gun views, which are pretty mainstream, but rather the left-wing ideological stuff, anti-religious snark, etc.)

There is just no need for that to come up in connection to my professional life, etc.

So, to summarize, I know it is just a think veneer of anonymity, but I actually really appreciate that thin veneer. And I think it's pretty harmless.

That thin veneer is nice. It's when people forget it's a veneer and act with impunity that the issues arise.

It's like locking your doors, sure, someone can get in with time and tools, but no reason to make it too easy. But like locking your doors, it can give one that false sense of security.

The Internet is weird

I know for a fact that some people in politics will get on message boards and stir up shit storms to see what the reaction is. Or to invigorate some to their cause. They have online personas as part of business.

I don't regularly post on other forums. I barely have time for this one.

You mean not everybody was a sniper in Iraq and afganastan?

Paladin wrote:You mean not everybody was a sniper in Iraq and afganastan?

Oh... that part is true. Its the rest that isn't.