The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Found this: Fukin A...Only another 300+! What do you think? I think I don't have a choice.
http://www.pondarmor.com/store/index.htm

How mqny sq ft is your pond. It didnt look like 240

Sonofagun wrote:I used Vesabond thin-set. It's got silica in it which causes cancer to humans if dust is inhailed when mixing. I don't know how this is gonna work out for the fish. May have to get plastic ones, or call it a hot-tub.

i think you will be fine.

I wouldn't worry too much about silica dust, it is in almost any crushed rock/concrete product. Once the concrete is cured then it shouldn't kick up.

amrev360 wrote:How mqny sq ft is your pond. It didnt look like 240

It's 205 sq.' if my math is correct. 9' x 6'6" x 43" deep.
The smaller quart size wouldn't do it.
I'll try a few guppies that I have in the house first and only after more research and confidence. If I reach no point of being positive, I'll buy this epoxy shit and do that. What's money anyway. Came to far to turn back. I'm hoping curing will be enough even if it takes a long time. My fault for not researching this shit from the start. The saying goes...

This is not nearly as impressive as your efforts but here is my little whiskey barrel pond. I grow lillies for the wife in it & I keep a few goldfish to munch on the squidos & provide entertainment for the kids. My dog uses it as a drinking fountain in the summer.

Porkroast wrote:This is not nearly as impressive as your efforts but here is my little whiskey barrel pond. I grow lillies for the wife in it & I keep a few goldfish to munch on the squidos & provide entertainment for the kids. My dog uses it as a drinking fountain in the summer.

Actually that is fuckin awesome. One of my favorite devices in the whole world is that water well hand pump. My parents had one in the backyard when I was a kid, best tasting water ever. Love the barrels too.

GlockLobster wrote:

mark wrote:Go down to your local pet store and buy a dozen feeder fish. They will run you around 10 cents a piece. Throw them in there and wait a few days. If they live, great, if not, you are only out a buck twenty.

Not recommended. Unethical, not humane and a good way to transfer disease. The best way is to cycle it with time, don't (and you can't) rush it. For aquariums...good things happen slowly. Bad things happen quickly.

I think the inhumane part is a bit of a stretch. I am suggesting that when you think you pretty sure that things are as good as they are going to get, and you are considering putting expensive fish like koi in, that putting in some feeder fish would be my first bet. These are fish that are in a pet store to get munched. If they live, you have saved them. If they don't live then you know you have more work, research to do before adding the koi. Yes, disease transfer is always an issue even if you are simply adding new koi to an existing pond. I don't think this is as much about cycling as it is about is his pond leaching crap into the water?

If the thincrete isn't the right brand Any fish are eventually done for.
As far as adding feeders to cycle...it's not humane, it's not fair to the fish and a inordinate of nitrate is added from rotting fish. If one wants to push the nitrate cycle along try a peice adding of shrimp meat OR use a scoop of gravel (or whatever substrate is available) from a trusted system. Wait for the nitrite spike then test to see nitrates rising then eventually falling off.
Lastly feeders, for cycling or food, is the best way to get sick fish.

It's OK to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.

Nice pond, SonOfAGun. If there are problems with test fish I am sure there is a food grade/non-toxic when cured epoxy available to seal it.

I've seen some sweet, large (300-500gal) plywood reef tanks that used marine epoxy as a paint, just haven't seen it used over a concrete type of base.

Sonofagun wrote: Actually that is fuckin awesome. One of my favorite devices in the whole world is that water well hand pump. My parents had one in the backyard when I was a kid, best tasting water ever. Love the barrels too.

Thanks!

The barrels I got from a big garden store, they are actual 1/2 whiskey barrels. (they smell AWESOME).

I submerged a pump in the bottom barrel & ran a line out to the old-fashioned pitcher pump head that is bolted to a couple of 2x4's.

I originally experimented with using a flexible liner stapled to the inside of the barrel, but it was a total disaster. Lots of leaks & rips..

I lucked out by finding these on the net:
http://www.pondliner.com/product/botani ... ting_media

& have been happy as a clam!

What are you going to use to control the alge that will be coming along soon? And with fish you are going to need a small filtration system if for nothing else to regulate nitrogen/amonia in the water. Not to mention the 'waste' that's left after eating.

Lastly, you also might reconsider the gravel you've added in the bottom. It looks nice now. Give it a few weeks (especially if you add fish) and it will become a trap for all of the crap that gets in the water. Eventually it will begin to stink like sewage. Trust me...it will. I made that mistake with my first pond. Now it's just a clear bottom.

CMfromIL wrote:What are you going to use to control the alge

Ahhh freshwater systems...I don't miss the algae farm.

You may want to look into certain aquatics plants that will process your nitrates. Aquaponics goes that route.

Algae is my friend. Smells goo too!

I am currently literally smeared with it.

Using the mobile so ill do this in multiple posts.

9' x 6' = 54sqft
6" x 43"=258sqin (is this per wall H*L?)

144sqin=1sqft

258sqin/144sqin = 1.79sqft
4walls*1.79sqft=7.16sqft

Total:
54sqft+7.16sqft=61.16sqft

(Hmm is the rim only 6in high?)

1.5qt=60sqft
61.6sqft / 60sqft = 1.03

Coverage -60 SqFt (10 mil thickness) $79.95

2*80=$160

2 would give you plenty of room to spare. Maybe they sell a half quart?

I've used that two-part epoxie to waterproof foundation walls and it's very nasty to work with. The only way to clean tools is with a weed burner. The clothing is thrown away. A stiring attachment for your drill is neccessary, shit's super thick and has to be completely mixed.

Just buy some Good rubber gloves and A white tyvex jumpsuit. Use old shoes and harbor freight tools to spread. Or use clean room booties for your shoes. Also check to see if you need a respirator for fumes.. the epoxy can be fumy for awhile. You should contact them and request an MSDS to be sent to you for their product.

I found this underneth the application section that showed pictures of a guy applying this stuff with a T-shirt, no gloves and no respirator:
"Note: you should always use proper protective clothing and take proper safety precautions for any installation."

Also I would ask Pond Armor how to prepare the surface when you apply it over your particular brand of thinset.

GlockLobster wrote:If the thincrete isn't the right brand Any fish are eventually done for.
As far as adding feeders to cycle...it's not humane, it's not fair to the fish and a inordinate of nitrate is added from rotting fish. If one wants to push the nitrate cycle along try a peice adding of shrimp meat OR use a scoop of gravel (or whatever substrate is available) from a trusted system. Wait for the nitrite spike then test to see nitrates rising then eventually falling off.
Lastly feeders, for cycling or food, is the best way to get sick fish.

Ok, just to beat the dead horse, I have never advocated adding the feeder fish for nitrogen cycling. My sole point was that if the pond was all ready to go otherwise (its all set up and ready to add fish), but he still had lingering doubts as to whether his fish would be negatively impacted by his choice of materials then he has a couple of options:

1. Refinish as some have pointed out.
2. Stick with what he has and add the koi.

and I am suggesting a 3rd option.

3. Before I would add the koi (which I am presuming is what he is adding), if I was at this point and my only options were 1 or 2 above, I would add some feeder fish to it and see how they do. If they do fine, then add the koi and keep them both.


Compared to the thousands of fish we have run through 96 hour LD50 studies using various pesticides, this is a great day.

And as a last plug, I would recommend native fish for anyone who can get them. I admit that I don't always use natives either, but there are some amazing native critters that don't require pillaging some third world waterway or risking fouling our waters with non-native species. For more info check out The North American Native Fish Association:
http://www.nanfa.org/

These are my two most recent native additions to one of my tanks. They aren't fish, and won't be helpful in your pond, but I am threadjacking anyway so I might as well go all the way.

I just wanted to add a bit of information for the OP to consider.

Koi fish, unlike goldfish DO NOT STOP GROWING regardless of tank size. Goldfish emit some sort of chemical that 'stunts' their growth depending upon tank size.

The Koi fish I started with were about 4" long and weighed about 2oz. They are now well over 18" and several pounds each.

My goldfish were feeders about 1.5" long. Most are now about 8-10" long and at least a pound or so each.

Based on the OP's pond size he would get about 1-2 years MAX before the Koi would outgrow the pond. Literally. It would not be humane or practical to expect a large fish to live in such small quarters.

CMfromIL wrote:I just wanted to add a bit of information for the OP to consider.

Koi fish, unlike goldfish DO NOT STOP GROWING regardless of tank size. Goldfish emit some sort of chemical that 'stunts' their growth depending upon tank size.

The Koi fish I started with were about 4" long and weighed about 2oz. They are now well over 18" and several pounds each.

My goldfish were feeders about 1.5" long. Most are now about 8-10" long and at least a pound or so each.

Based on the OP's pond size he would get about 1-2 years MAX before the Koi would outgrow the pond. Literally. It would not be humane or practical to expect a large fish to live in such small quarters.

Thank brother, actually we've had the same harlequin goldfish for 6 years now in a smaller pond on the front patio which are now 8". I think there fully grown or close. And thanks again for all the info. Wife wont let me do the 300$ for the liner armor so I'm looking for something similar. I don't want to chance killing them due to laziness. Hey mark, there was a time I had monitors and a water dragon. Very cool stuff.

Why not go with a PVC/EPDM liner for your pond? You could easily pick one up for under $50. The only issue now would be placement. Depending upon how you do it you could install one pretty easily. The only issue would be how to secure it.

Since your topstone is already cemented in, you would have some trouble with that. Had it not been finished, you could have overlayed it a few inches, then cemented the capstone over the liner.

With some ingenuity, some predrilled steel/wood banding and concrete screws/hammer drill you could do it from the inside.

Cost would be substantially less than the expoy and it wouldn't bother the fish if you chose to put some in. It would also be easier to maintain water PH without having to worry about the concrete messing with it.

Just a thought.

Got tile all the way around the inside at the waterline. Hate to cover it up. I would like to think an idea will pop up and solve it, financially and cosmetically. I'm hoping to find a cheaper epoxy. I need a minimum of 1 gallon. The pond armor is the best and must be sprayed to a 10 mil thickness. Maybe I can have a fish fundraising campaign.

Were the dimensions wrong? I think you can do it with 2x 1.5qt @ $160