The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Just a general warning not to use GPal or GunPal as it used to be called. I wish I could laugh about it as a "they get what they deserve" (Pictures of the founder with Palin and a bunch of other nut-jobs ), but I got suckered in when I sold a gun on GunBroker. The buyer wanted to use GPal and I went ahead and shipped when GPal told me the funds were posted to my account. Well, they weren't and never have been. Eight months have gone by and I have a whole file of "thank you for your question, we will get back to you within 24 hours" but I am still out of $400. It is a ponzi scheme, and I have filed all the legal complaint stuff I can, but I fear I will never see the model 15 nor the funds ever again.

Yeah, shocking that a right wing conspiracy born banking service didn't work out.

Sorry you got ripped off, tell the police someone stole your gun.

This was used so that someone could acquire a gun from you? It may be that you have recourse available through BATFE, if any part of the acquisition was fraudulent. At the very least you might consider reporting the gun stolen.

Sorry to hear about your problems. I admit that I was upset when Paypal stopped allowing firearms and related transactions through their site, but never to the point of wanting to try GunPal. For me, credit is best for online transactions even if you get a 3% mark up.

GunPal was supposed to be the answer to those "liberal bastards" at Paypal, but like Inquisitor alluded to, trusting right wingers with your money is never a safe bet.

If you were debited, then I agree with the others, you should report your firearm stolen. I am not sure about where you are from but in California it is illegal to ship firearms through the mail. You have to go through a parcel carrier with tracking. If that was not done, then your gun was stolen and you should definitely report it.

It was about that long ago when I heard about Gpal. And I agree with Inquisitor, report it stolen. Let it become some assholes federal problem and minimum 10.

First, like many I am sure, I was unaware of right-wing connections until it made news by stopping payments.

We need an alternative to PayPal for guns, ammo, and shooting stuff. Frankly it bugs me that eBay prohibited PayPal from any gun-related payments after they bought it. If you sell or buy from individuals over the internet as I do the inability to transfer funds is quite a hassle - costing me not an inconsiderable amount of time. GPal came along as an alternative and I rejoiced.

Second, I don't get the logic of reporting the gun stolen. If you sell a car to someone, they write a check that clears, and then the bank folds so you can't get your money do you report your car stolen? Would having the purchaser of the car arrested really be a good idea? Gpal reported that the funds arrived and cleared. As I am in the habit with PayPal I ship when funds clear - often keeping a balance on hand in PayPal for future use. If PayPal suddenly folded I wouldn't report the items I sold as stolen - I would report PayPal which is what I have done with GPal.

I would contact the local or regional BATFE office and tell them everything that happened. Provide them with hard copies of everything that you have regarding the transaction including the buyers information. I would then consider consulting an attorney about any legal recourse that you may have. The are federal charges that this GPal and the buyer may be facing. Do not let them get away with it.

Yeah, but GPal didn't fold. They are still there, and the buyer never actually deposited those funds. It sounds to me like the goods were stolen.

EisVogelDrei wrote: Second, I don't get the logic of reporting the gun stolen.

Did you get paid for the gun? It is irrelevant who has your money if you didn't get it. Therefore the gun has been stolen from you.

The analogy regarding a bank depends upon whose bank your talking about, but the short answer is yes, if it was your bank and they go bust, they have in effect stolen your money...but they have contracts that protect them from being prosecuted.

Not so with GPal, unless of course you signed a contract with them permitting them to keep your money.

Some jurisdictions don't give you the option of choosing not to report the gun stolen, you might want to look into that too.

"the buyer never actually deposited those funds."
Actually he did. The buyer was charged for the gun, did pay the third party - GPal. GPal recorded his payment and "moved" it into my account for withdraw. I had worked with Gpal when it just started long ago in the past without incident. Since I promise a "three day turn around" whenever I sell a gun (and once funds have cleared) I had the gun shipped three days after I transferred the funds from GPal into my account. Indeed, within 5 or so days of transferring my funds from GunPal into my bank I received notice that the transfer was "successful" and "completed." To this day, now some 9 months later, that $400 is marked "successfully transferred" to my bank according to my GPal account.

Now, was I stupid? Yes. You get no argument from me on that. Ben Cannon is the Bernie Madoff of internet gun selling. I hope he gets a cell right next to Bernie so they can discuss ponzi schemes. But yes, I allowed myself to be lured to sleep because I wanted to believe there was a way to transfer money electronically. A problem in my case was I had used it right in the beginning when it was still called GunPal. It was as easy and quick as PayPal in those days and I had no problems then. If I hadn't used it when it first started I would have checked for reviews of GPal in Oct/Nov and read the horror stories. But, I didn't.

So, there is no excuse for stupid, I know, but at least this information might help others make a more informed decision which is why I posted it here.

There is a useful link that came out about the time I was "transferring" funds here:
http://www.auctionarms.com/help/forum/D ... ctID=34355

I filled a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center.

I'd be interested to hear what the BATF says. They're notorious for not giving a shit about things like that. They spend most of their time harrassing ffl dealers.

If it was shipped to his dealer via USPS, it could be a case of postal fraud against GPal, which I believe is a felony.

Oldskool wrote:I'd be interested to hear what the BATF says. They're notorious for not giving a shit about things like that. They spend most of their time harrassing ffl dealers.

If it was shipped to his dealer via USPS, it could be a case of postal fraud against GPal, which I believe is a felony.

You would think so, wouldn't you (yes it did). Personally I just want some charges brought against the bastards (can I say that here?).

If you use paypal for firearms transactions just make sure it is sent to a private owner/buyer and where it has the memo/description on the transaction form just select discrete or type something like "goods." I've never had any problems through paypal.

Really sucks about Gunpal... sounds shady. Did he pay via credit card? If it was a credit card or money order then it can be disputed through the credit card agency - or cancelled via M/O agency (I hate money order agencies though because they are such a hassle to work with). With M/O you need your receipt stub of the M/O and the receiver has to be made out. If Gunpal stole your gun then definitely report it. What were the Terms and Agreements?

I think you can compel them to small claims court through the Long Arm statute. Small claims is only 50 bucks I think... if you have some free-time why not?

Try to bring them to small claims court for breach of contract and financial damages.

Sounds like you have been had...

Talking to a lawyer would probably be wise. It may be that you can recover attorney's fees and costs. Looking at what the Auctionarms thing is saying ("Gpal victims"), you aren't alone. Which might be a bad thing...too many claims, too little money to satisfy those claims.

Talk to a lawyer.

http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

Also, if they did it to you, they did it to others, call the local FBI or BATFE field office and ask them for advice. You got scammed in some way the resulted in the loss of the firearm. I might also call your local PD, state police or state AG.

Bad mojo there.

There is a huge thread on The High Road starting about a year ago about GPal and what is going on. I just ran across it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=543955

I would never use them.