This is appropriate advice. Twenty minutes. Six years old but exactly perfect. For those who don't want to watch, he discusses that you have to be able to kill someone if you buy a gun for that reason.

Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice.
--snrps--
There is no honor in combat. You win or you die.
--snrps--
Speed, surprise, violence of action.
--snrps--
You're trying to kill. That's what you're setting out to do. Never forget that.

Not for the squeamish.

[youtu_be]https://youtu.be/Yv-0OQ8KSkM?si=VsmLfqbcWAeNZZ70[/youtu_be].

CDF

We've talked about it here before. If you buy a gun for self protection and haven't seriously thought through all the consequences of taking a human life, then after you pull the trigger is too late. Using a gun should be the last resort to protect yourself and others.

Yeah. In response to the recent election, I posted this in case some liberals who wanted to get a PD gun because TOS might come here to find info. I don't expect much from regulars.

CDF

I was at the range yesterday which also houses a gun shop and there were 2 couples, obviously "left of center" looking at guns and asking about training, Illinois CCL, etc but, as we all know, literally the vast majority of gun shops are frequented by folks who are "right of center" if not rabid, polarized, MAGA style personalities. I was done shooting and hanging around hearing the Liberals being browbeat and politically groomed to assume that all gun owners need to be anti Democrats by proxy because, especially in Illinois, Democrats want us disarmed via incremental infringement of stuff like PICA. I held back watching their distress and gathered from their questions and dialog that they were just seeking advice and solutions and not really seeking political indoctrination.

One couple left the store and I followed them out discreetly and told them I was an experienced shooter and gun owner with a CCL and all that and also a Liberal. Gave them a card of the trainer that was my instructor for CCL and a list of online resources (including LGC) to get objective information about what they were trying to learn. I think there are a lot of Liberal leaning people who see the [possibility that there may be violence going forward and that being armed gives you a choice of countering potential deadly force against one's own person or Family instead of looking for an appropriate sized rock or sharp stick.

There bound to be a new influx of Liberal gun owners about now and I'm seeking courteous and non confrontational avenues of addressing their thirst for information so that they can make hard decisions about their safety with non political bias. I urge everyone here who is serious about Liberals defending themselves to do the same. Let's get these folks options and facts, training, and advice to identify which firearms (if any) will do them the most good.

VooDoo

Good action VooDoo.

CDF

I second that VooDoo post.
People do need to understand that you have to be serious, know the rules of engagement and when you pull the gun you better not be shy about it otherwise the aggressor may take it. Then youse in deep doodoo.

Interesting. I just offered related advice to a friend an hour ago. It didn't take 20 minutes. I don't even think it took 20 words. A fellow shared a desire to buy a gun.

I asked if he was experienced. He said that he fired a bolt action 22 when he was a boy scout...several decades ago. I followed with...

Probably best if a competent instructor is engaged from the very beginning.

Not knowing what they don't know is dangerous in some things. Learning removes unlnowns.

It's some serious shit and the ramifications are substantial. Even a poor choice of words can have terrible repercussions. For instance, knowing the difference between the word stop and the word kill. In my jurisdiction one of them will have the victim left to clean up the aftermath and the other will create confusion over who is the victim, to be determined, perhaps after many weeks of free room and board, following a free ride in the back of a police car.

Goes to a third word...
Intent

The misogyny and anti-trans rhetoric that were hallmarks of the 2024 election campaign have seemingly ramped up since Donald Trump’s win, prompting some women, queer and trans people to respond by buying guns – and learning how to defend themselves from potential attackers.

The Guardian spoke to various Americans from marginalized groups taking firearms classes, arming themselves with stun guns and pepper spray and taking their friends shooting in an effort to protect themselves from bigots they fear will be emboldened by the president-elect’s return to power. A few left-leaning gun clubs say their numbers are increasing dramatically.

“I am thinking about carrying every day,” said Ashley Parten, 38, a Douglasville, Georgia, resident who purchased stun guns for herself, her daughter and three nieces after the election. Parten, who is Black and bisexual, is also eyeing a maroon handgun that she plans on buying after taking a firearms class.

“We all feel the need to make sure that we’re aware of our surroundings and protect ourselves in general, but even more so now,” she said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... dApp_Other

Old, straight white guys such as myself do not fear the butt heads on the right for obvious reasons. We enjoy the luxury of calmly discussing self defense options. Not so for the "others."

https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comme ... er_trumps/

CDF

CDFingers wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:25 am

The misogyny and anti-trans rhetoric that were hallmarks of the 2024 election campaign have seemingly ramped up since Donald Trump’s win, prompting some women, queer and trans people to respond by buying guns – and learning how to defend themselves from potential attackers.

The Guardian spoke to various Americans from marginalized groups taking firearms classes, arming themselves with stun guns and pepper spray and taking their friends shooting in an effort to protect themselves from bigots they fear will be emboldened by the president-elect’s return to power. A few left-leaning gun clubs say their numbers are increasing dramatically.

“I am thinking about carrying every day,” said Ashley Parten, 38, a Douglasville, Georgia, resident who purchased stun guns for herself, her daughter and three nieces after the election. Parten, who is Black and bisexual, is also eyeing a maroon handgun that she plans on buying after taking a firearms class.

“We all feel the need to make sure that we’re aware of our surroundings and protect ourselves in general, but even more so now,” she said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... dApp_Other

Old, straight white guys such as myself do not fear the butt heads on the right for obvious reasons. We enjoy the luxury of calmly discussing self defense options. Not so for the "others."

https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comme ... er_trumps/

CDF

Yes, I recognize at least some of the privileges I enjoy as an olde white guy, one of which is, as you say, calmly discussing self-defense options with friends and neighbors who are marginalized for whatever reason. I hope that being calm with them helps their mood around the ideas. I'm compelled to be honest with them, and only teach as far as I'm qualified to teach, and encourage more learning with better-qualified instructors.

Almost forty years ago, I was introduced to a series of self-help books based on the concept of Adult Children of Alcoholics. Like many self-help books of the self-help craze of the mid-1980s to early 1990s, the concept sucked me in--one of my parents had been a raging alcoholic. The list of traits/symptoms in the front of one of the books read like a "Who's Who" of my personal demons. One of those demons was a tendency to be hyper-vigilant, almost to the point of paranoia. The therapy I did helped me release some of that angst, but I still remember how to be hyper-aware of my surroundings. It's hard for me to be totally oblivious--I don't focus on my phone when I'm walking around, for example.

I've spent a few hours in protest space (as many here remember, I live within fifteen miles or so of where Breonna Taylor was murdered by cops during a no-knock raid as they searched for a guy who had never lived in Breonna's apartment) in 2020, and never turned off the short- or long-range radar when in that space. I wasn't worried about protesters, of course, but was watching for outside agitators and boot-lickers.

In my current taxable-income gig (I could hardly call it "work" since I spend most of my time watching terrible closed circuit television feeds), I'm paid to be at least partly vigilant.

I take that vigilance with me wherever I go, because while I'm not allowed to carry a firearm at work, I'm carrying one everywhere else I go (and some trauma gear).

CDFingers wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:25 am

Old, straight white guys such as myself do not fear the butt heads on the right for obvious reasons. We enjoy the luxury of calmly discussing self defense options. Not so for the "others."

https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comme ... er_trumps/

CDF

unless of course their family doesn't happen to be white...
the it's something that is a cause for worry...
all. day. long.

Really the only cadre who is not an "other" with this bunch is straight white male criminals. We have fewer than two years to claw back one House of Congress. Otherwise we are fairly well screwn.

CDF

If we, the republic, lasts that long.

Not to be a downer, but Trump and this last election is verification (to me) that the Republic has failed and now we begin the crash. It'll take maybe decades yet but if one is not prepared already, one needs to get going. The problem is that many lack the financial resources to put a viable plan in place. Gird yer loins if you can.

VooDoo

After an appropriate period of mourning, gorging on L-tryptophan, and drinking too much, we must renew our efforts.

All politics is local in that we can see the results of our local efforts, locally. That is, we petition the government we have for grievances rather than the government we should like to have. Locally we advocate for increased green housing for the homeless, increased health care for the sick, for more bike lanes and for more EV charging stations. We seek to increase mass transit, increase funding for schools, advocate for full bodily autonomy for all.

I could make a yuge list. But tl;dr: lick your wounds. If you're not dead, you can still fight.

CDF

CDFingers, I am with you except for the bike lanes part. The one thing bike lanes do best is make cyclists and motorists mutually irrelevant until the moment of impact. The majority of motorist-vs-cyclist crashes happen in or close to intersections (the most common is often called a "right hook," followed by a "left cross"), and bike lanes add complexity to intersections.

I say this as one who has done a fair bit of study (and ridden a whole bunch of commuter miles), and as a former instructor in the CyclingSavvy program (former because life has kept me off my bicycles for a couple years).

/pedant mode

But, yes, all politics are local. I speak with my Council member either on the phone or in person frequently. I am still on speaking terms with the council member who represents the district where I lived three years ago. I speak with my state-level Representative a couple times a year, too.

I encourage all to vote to protect autonomy of people who might be pregnant, and to assist the folks who don't have houses instead of abuse them as our current Dippity, er, Deputy Mayor does.

As a cyclist, I prefer the existence of bike lanes. My vision is bad now, but I know where the intersections are, and I go very carefully. Maybe having a college in my town make drivers accept bike riders more easily.

Women can go on camping trips anonymously in California. No one ever asks where they're from or why they came to California. We're cool.

CDF

I fully believe that "cyclists" are not a solid bloc. Some have different experiences than I have.

I'll leave it at that on this forum.

Yeah, it's tough to put any bicycle rider into any political camp. We're all over the map. The cops always bring me home, though. ;-)

CDF