BearPaws wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2024 8:48 pm
--snrps--

Because such abuse of residents' civil rights happens, it's perfectly reasonable that any person encountering police--whose job is to find reasons to arrest people, after all--would take self-protective actions, including recording EVERY encounter with any cop, knowing how to not answer any questions that don't need answering, etc. Too many of my marginalized neighbors have lost their lives because cops are so bad at de-escalation.

A cop ordering me to put my phone down is afraid of being held accountable for their actions (remember the saying "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have reason to worry?"). Recording encounters with cops is a First Amendment and Fourth Amendment right, in my humble opinion. If a cop is acting as a cop, they are acting as a representative of the government, and have no reasonable expectation of privacy.

That you have had what are apparently universal good outcomes with cops of various agencies is marvelous. A privilege, frankly. People close to me have not had that good fortune. I believe in the lived experiences of my neighbors.

DispositionMatrix wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:02 pm This incident was added to the "Gun Violence Archive."
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3024881

BearPaws wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2024 8:48 pm Ylatkit, I could list half a dozen YouTube channels (including the one from Beau of the Fifth Column (https://www.youtube.com/@BeauoftheFifthColumn), an independent journalist whose workaholic tendencies got him close to burnout, and his wife is doing a lot of the videos now, and one from "That Dang Dad" (https://www.youtube.com/@ThatDangDad) who used to be a cop in the Los Angeles area and is now an advocate for abolition of policing as it is now done in this country, and any number of channels by civil rights advocates like https://www.youtube.com/@thecivilrightslawyer, and auditors' channels "Audit the Audit" and "The Lackluster Channel") that show how cops in lots of places abuse the Constitutional rights of the people they encounter. I could list books about how police "culture" abuses people (The Riders Come Out at Night, White Robes and Broken Badges and others), and research that shows that one is statistically more likely to die at the hands of a cop than of a mass shooter (https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/ ... -bx-uIOv7o). I could point to the DOJ decisions that hold departments (including the Louisville Metro Police Department, operating where I live) as exhibiting a pattern of behavior that abuses the rights of the community residents.

My point is that such abuse of the civil rights of residents of the communities happens. It's widespread. It's a feature of the police culture. It does not happen in a vacuum--it can ONLY happen if the command structure of the department encourages--or at the very least, tolerates--such behavior. One reads numerous news reports of alleged "good" cops who try to hold the bad cops accountable for such abuses, but who rapidly learn that they will not have backup if they are in trouble, so "go along to get along." That latter point is behind the saying that "if a department has thirteen hundred 'good' cops and twelve 'bad' cops, it actually has 1312 bad cops," with the 1312 indicating letters of the alphabet (1=A, etc.), suggesting that "All Cops Are Bad."

I mentioned that "Beau" lives in a rural area (northern Florida, if I recall correctly), and the video I cited earlier discusses how small-town cops have more incentive to not be jerks because, well, small towns. I'm not convinced, but whatever.

Because such abuse of residents' civil rights happens, it's perfectly reasonable that any person encountering police--whose job is to find reasons to arrest people, after all--would take self-protective actions, including recording EVERY encounter with any cop, knowing how to not answer any questions that don't need answering, etc. Too many of my marginalized neighbors have lost their lives because cops are so bad at de-escalation.

A cop ordering me to put my phone down is afraid of being held accountable for their actions (remember the saying "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have reason to worry?"). Recording encounters with cops is a First Amendment and Fourth Amendment right, in my humble opinion. If a cop is acting as a cop, they are acting as a representative of the government, and have no reasonable expectation of privacy.

That you have had what are apparently universal good outcomes with cops of various agencies is marvelous. A privilege, frankly. People close to me have not had that good fortune. I believe in the lived experiences of my neighbors.