Having a bad time trying to zero a carbine. My intent is to get a laser sight on there. I have tried the usual fare with a bore laser to align the laser sight. Long story short, it drifts worse than a Tokyo street racer. This has happened with 2 different cheap laser sights, but both with reviews that claim they can at least keep zero. I figured I'd upgrade the sight if I could get a system to zero it.

So, the drifting makes the whole setup trash, and makes me fear that spending more money on a better sight wouldn't make much difference. The question I have is where the point of failure is. The bore laser or the sights? Or even the gun itself? I have no idea what is causing it. This is a fully polymer gun on the outside, including all the mounts. First fully polymer one I've ever owned, but this model was lauded by many, without any hint of a problem, and that was the reason I got it in the first place. I intended it to be my beater play gun that still uses something better than 22LR.

And speaking of a vise, I don't have one, but even if I did, I suspect this is not a good idea on a polymer gun? Or am I overthinking this and it's fine? Any ideas or comments on the matter are appreciated.

Some advice from Brownell's.

https://www.youtube.com/@brownells/sear ... and%20zero

Beware of lasers. MTG will think you're an Israeli Space Commando.

Are you moving the rear or the front sight? "Drifting" makes me think you're doing the front sight. I've done many front sight drifts, but I never used a laser. I would start at 25 yards to get it on paper usually. Then I'd drift the front sight to get it on at 25. Then I'd move the target out to 50 and shoot five more. I'd use my spotting scope, and I'd drift the sight again to center. Move out to 75, and so on. Laborious. Make sure you take water to the range. I hope this helps.

CDF

I only have experience with the laser cartridges to help zero sights - namely the scopes and red dots on my long guns. The laser assist cartridges only helped me get on paper at 50ish feet and then I did as CDF does and walked it into a practical zero at the range. The problem with virtually all of these laser cartridges is that every time I chambered them, the projected dot drifted as they are just not that precision to fit in the chamber and project down the bore the same way every time.

But they got me to a fair zero at 50' and on paper at 25 yards enough to start adjusting the sights via live fire.

But those laser cartridges, even the good/expensive ones, simply do not fit the chamber accurately enough to get really good results. As you say, they drift more than a Tokyo Street Racer, LOL.

VooDoo

Do something you've been putting off, it will make you feel better then:

Range time and sandbag rest.

Decaf.

SR out

CDFingers wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 9:21 am Are you moving the rear or the front sight?

I'm not sure what you mean. Doesn't front/right apply to iron sights?
The sights I'm using are single mount point laser sights. The laser position is adjusted with 2 tiny hex keys. If you mean where it's mounted, it is all the way front, in front of backup iron sights (although they are plastic).

SubRosa wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 11:56 am Do something you've been putting off, it will make you feel better then:

Range time and sandbag rest.

Decaf.

SR out

Unfortunately, this can only be done at an indoor range, because out in the sun, I can't see the laser past 15 yards or so. The maximum length at the indoor range is 25 yards anyway. And outdoor ranges aren't open past sundown, although it's possible there's a small window at dawn or dusk to still see the laser, but that's probably not a practical plan.

SubRosa wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 11:56 am Do something you've been putting off, it will make you feel better then:

Range time and sandbag rest.

Decaf.

SR out

I already prefer chamomille over any coffee. So if I'm jittery, I'd have no hope of zeroing anything drinking coffee.

VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 11:03 am But those laser cartridges, even the good/expensive ones, simply do not fit the chamber accurately enough to get really good results. As you say, they drift more than a Tokyo Street Racer, LOL.

Do they drift that badly though? I'm seeing some extreme drifting, like several inches in wild directions, between the bore laser and the sight, even at 10 yards.
Is it even physically possible for a bore laser to drift that badly inside such limited space? If it was a tiny bit, I would have assumed it was the bore laser, but I don't know.

Some things can do at home, if you can look thru bore from breech, sandbag on some distant point, adjust dot to center. Same if properly adjusted fixed sights are on the thing. Shooting, to go from somewhere on paper to breaking crackers, toppling cans, countering coyotes. I have in the past tried a laser on a handgun and the only benefit was to the people who made and sold the thing. If target is close enough to use the dot, didn't need it anyway. Sticks out on white paper, but critters and crooks don't wear white. You say past 15, invisible. I agree with the very limited useful distance, why I sold mine. I do have old eyes, so that's an issue also. Actual shooting is necessary. Start close to insure a hit, adjust, add distance, repeat. If that doesn't work, coffee always calms me.

Get one of those reflectors like people put on bicycles, and screw it to a wooden post.

It will really flash when hit with a laser, day or nite. Even an old license plate will do that.

SR

Yeah. I had more success with traditional zeroing. It does seem like the bore laser was the problem, or my expectation of it. So I guess the lesson is that bore lasers are pretty gimmicky, if not useless.
I'm still going to keep a laser sight at the bottom, because it's just fun to mess around with. Only thing dorkier would be to get an IR laser and a telescopic monocule that sees IR. Probably not going to do that. I don't know. Might be nice if it's visible outdoors in daylight. Does anyone know if it would be?

I'm putting a traditional red dot at the top.

Try my reflector idea.

SR

I will try it next time I'm out at the outdoor range. It will be good to see how far I can stretch the effective range. Thanks.

wretchedweaponry wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:37 pm

VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 11:03 am But those laser cartridges, even the good/expensive ones, simply do not fit the chamber accurately enough to get really good results. As you say, they drift more than a Tokyo Street Racer, LOL.

Do they drift that badly though? I'm seeing some extreme drifting, like several inches in wild directions, between the bore laser and the sight, even at 10 yards.
Is it even physically possible for a bore laser to drift that badly inside such limited space? If it was a tiny bit, I would have assumed it was the bore laser, but I don't know.

They can be pretty "iffy" depending on a lot of factors like the quality and size of the little rubber "O" rings that hold the cartridge in the chamber to the eccentricity of the laser diode in the cartridge. I remember chambering one in my 6.5 cm and at about 30' zeroing the scope. Came back later after removing the laser (to turn it off and go eat dinner) and rechambered/activated it and when I looked thru the scope the laser dot was about 4" off. The gun was sitting on a tripod on a table pointed out a rear window and the rear of the gun has an adjustable monopod on the butt stock - it hadn't budged. Rechambered again and it moved 3" in a totally different direction.

so I opened the bolt and finessed the laser gently and the dot moved all over. I used it a number of times as I went thru 3 scopes getting to the final optic solution and learned to make witness marks on the laser and gun to get it in the same place every time. That helped a lot in the "chase the dot" game.

They aren't useless but getting on paper at 25 yards is about all they will get you. Then I just walk it in - once on paper at 25 yards it takes about 5 rounds to get it dialed in at 100.

VooDoo

No vise? No laser? No problem. The relevant bit is at about 2:45 in the video. Great movie.

https://youtu.be/BR_NLCzMt-k

Cool gun!!

Reminds me of some of the single shot survival style rifles I inherited from my FIL. Simple, effective, and accurate. I like the tree sling deal. Clever.

VooDoo