GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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Louisiana Republican Governor Jeff Landry signed a new bill into law Wednesday that clearly goes against the First Amendment, according to former federal prosecutor Elie Honig.

The bill claims that the Bible’s Ten Commandments are "foundational documents of our state and national government," and "requires a poster of the Ten Commandments, in a 'large, easily readable font,' be displayed in all public school classrooms, from kindergarten through college."

CNN host Kaitlan Collins asked the legal analyst whether these requirements violate the First Amendment.

"Yes, flagrantly, in my view," Honig replied. "If you wanted a perfect example of what the First Amendment prohibits, I think this is it. The First Amendment says, Congress, government, shall make no law respecting establishment of religion, meaning state entities can't do things that endorse any particular religion or religiosity in general."

The CNN legal analyst added, "And if you look at those ten — I know one of the defense is, 'Well, these are themes that are consistent throughout civilized society and throughout religion shall not kill. You don't kill, don't rob, don't steal that kind of thing. But there are some commitments that are inherently religious. Observe the Sabbath Day. I'm the only God that you may worship."

:So it's an inherently religious document. I should add this came up before in 1980, there was a case out of kentucky — almost exact same facts — and the Supreme Court said 'unconstitutional.'"
https://www.alternet.org/ten-commandments-gop/

If they are going t put the Ten Commandments up then give other religions equal space and time to post their text. I’m sure the Satanic Temple and the followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster would just love t put their text up right along with the Moslem and various Indian religions.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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This should be kept in perspective. Nearly person on earth is familiar with the Ten. God seems to have some insecurity issues, given the first few. Kinda weird since he's all powerful and all, but the parts about not killing and lying and stealing are hard to argue with. Schools are a place for learning. Religion is not going away. Insisting that there be no mention of any of religion's concepts or ideas is no different than excluding Darwin's. I was raised Catholic. Haven't eaten a magic wafer in some decades and have yet to burst into flames. Probably due to the Holy Water.

There's not enough space on the walls to list all of Trump's violations.

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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I don’t know, how many of the billion over Chinese or Indian people know anything about the Ten Commandments. Perhaps in the west and North America the majority have heard of them at least in passing. I do see this as a violation as it singles out christianity as a special example for a code of behavior. I wouldn’t mind reintroducing civics into schools at some age where different aspects including diverse religions thoughts could be explored in context with government. It is inescapable that we have interjected religion especially the christian religion into our system, specifically the judiciary. It shouldn’t be this way and that should also be pointed out as should the instances where individuals have inserted their religion into our lives, like under god in the pledge. It’s time to reclaim religious neutrality.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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Hm...1.5 billion Chinese, 1.5 billion Indians, 1.8 billion Muslims. That's over half the world population of 8 billion. Yet Christians claim EVERYONE knows the 10. (and assume it's the KJV 10). There are another 2 billion Catholics and their bible, the Vulgate, doesn't have exactly the same 10 as the KJV. The Torah has yet another version of the 10, but there aren't that many Jews in the world. I don't know how many others there are that follow other religions, but it greatly narrows down the number who follow the KJV.

It's all a bullshit power play to overturn the 1st Amendment and take us backwards to ignorance.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:52 pm Hm...1.5 billion Chinese, 1.5 billion Indians, 1.8 billion Muslims. That's over half the world population of 8 billion. Yet Christians claim EVERYONE knows the 10. (and assume it's the KJV 10). There are another 2 billion Catholics and their bible, the Vulgate, doesn't have exactly the same 10 as the KJV. The Torah has yet another version of the 10, but there aren't that many Jews in the world. I don't know how many others there are that follow other religions, but it greatly narrows down the number who follow the KJV.

It's all a bullshit power play to overturn the 1st Amendment and take us backwards to ignorance.
Actually there quite a few different canons, the smallest is the Samaritan Canon and it recognizes only those books canonised during Jesus lifetime and that is the first five books, the Pentateuch. The largest is the Ethiopian Long Canon which has over 80 books.

There is no such thing as 'The Bible™'
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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I remember in school we learn and recited every morning the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag and then the Lords Prayer. This was until fourth grade and they drop the prayer. The Pledge continued all the way into high school.

I agree with YT about a power play. If the holier than thou right wing Christians had there way the would make the Puritans look liberal.

But Sig230, they all think their book is the only true Holy Book and all the others are evil spawn written by the Devil to lead you away from the one true guiding light.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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You got me, perhaps not everyone on the planet, yet I do know something of other religions even though I’m not from India. I do not see how posting the ten establishes a religion. Should the school board insist on a test of the students knowledge and understanding of them, then that’s different. Is that part of the legislation? What if a Muslim student wears a hijab in class? How about the Ten on a t shirt? What about the free exercise thereof?

Religion is loosing it’s grip, and that’s a good thing, I say. Unless you home school, your kids are going to hear and see and learn a lot of things you won’t like.

Very few are going to believe and accept every jot and tittle. It no more promotes ignorance than studying the religions of ancient Egypt, or the Vedas. Tolerance is for more than just pronouns.

Everyone here knows the story. Do you feel as if your life has been diminished because of it?

I guess I can’t have it both ways. Damn!
Last edited by papajim2jordan on Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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As long as you are in a publicly funded school any hint of a preferred religion is not to be allowed. I have nothing against allowing students a reflection moment at the beginning of a day as long as god and any reference to religion is avoided. A student’s parents can instruct them what to do with their reflection moment.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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School voucher supporters bask in primary wins, say goals are within reach

After facing decades of fierce bipartisan resistance to the idea of using state dollars to pay for private school tuition, school voucher supporters in Texas emerged from the Tuesday primaries triumphant.

Their long-held goal has never felt more in reach.

Gov. Greg Abbott succeeded in knocking off nine fellow Republicans who opposed vouchers in the House during last year’s legislative sessions. More could fall in the May runoffs, placing his signature priority in range in 2025.

Public school advocates, meanwhile, raised the alarm Wednesday about the potential cost to the school system if vouchers become a reality. And both sides promised an even more fervent battle is coming.

“Texas is closer than ever to delivering on the promise that every parent be in control of their child’s education,” said Mandy Drogin, a campaign director at the Texas Public Policy Foundation, an influential conservative think tank.

The foundation, one of the most persistent and outspoken supporters of vouchers, vowed to launch an “emboldened and invigorated” push for the program in the 2025 legislative session.

“Empowering parents with more and better educational options will continue to be one of the top issues in Texas until it gets passed,” Drogin said.

On the other side, opponents of vouchers lamented that out-of-state groups and donors poured millions of dollars into the campaigns, writing checks and launching attack ads that in some cases made no reference to education. The state’s largest educator association called the election “a sad day in Texas.”

“Out-of-state donors have colluded with state leadership to defame and punish honorable public servants from their own party who went to Austin to vote their districts and their consciences,” said Kate Johanns, a spokesperson for the Association of Texas Professional Educators. “We are disheartened but not dissuaded. Our state’s 5.4 million public schoolchildren deserve better from the leaders of Texas, and we’ll continue fighting for them.”
Full article: https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/06 ... ol-choice/

It's not just teaching one religion in school, but now Texas along with some other states are looking to deny funds to pubic education to pay for vouchers to private schools especially the religious backed schools. I am against any public monies going to private schools when there are public schools available. Public schools are already seeing large cutbacks in funding and to deny them more funds to pay for private school vouchers is wrong.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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Forcing kids to look at the English Protestant mis-interpretation of the 10 Commandments, including 4 about how you have to worship God is really going to work to cut down on one of the most violent states in the nation, and raise their public schools up from being 47th in the nation! :roflmao:
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:23 pm Forcing kids to look at the English Protestant mis-interpretation of the 10 Commandments, including 4 about how you have to worship God is really going to work to cut down on one of the most violent states in the nation, and raise their public schools up from being 47th in the nation! :roflmao:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... crime_rate

California is 6th Texas 12th in violence. Similar numbers elsewhere. It doesn’t seem to be related to which party controls either. Both blue and red states are violent and both have safer states.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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I did not realize my mistake until now. I was unaware of the requirement to look at the list. For how long is it legislated that students gaze upon the text? I was also unaware of there being a “correct” version. If anyone should have the author’s name, please share. Hell, reading scores are so low these days, they won't know what's on the list.

This is kind of fun. Which will come first, civil war or constitutional convention? Perhaps there's an asteroid with our name on it. Worst case scenario, same ol' same o'.

AI. There's the answer.

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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Change up sequence order of the ten, call them the "10 Suggestions" with no mention of god - all should be good to go. As an atheist I don't give two shits for any religion and do not plan on losing any sleep over whatever is ordained in LA schools. I started ignoring this religious witchcraft years ago, allowed my children to make their own choices regarding same. Doesn't appear (so far) than any went to the dark side and none are republican. LOL
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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papajim2jordan wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 6:56 am Strange that we should trust young people with decisions like taking powerful drugs and undergoing major surgery for sex reassignment, but cannot trust them do decide if the God of Abraham is right for them.

I thought it was the over 30 crowd which could not be trusted. Very curious indeed.
Not sure what drugs you’re referring to or how being transgender relates to this or how this has anything to do with trusting young people. This is about favoring one religion over another which is unconstitutional. People are free to accept whatever religion they want just don’t push it in public institutions. The proper place for that is in the religious institutions which a younger or any age person is free to associate with and attend.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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Lauren Boebert Tells Steve Bannon About The Need For Morals In Jaw-Dropping Chat
Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.) pontificated to ex-Trump adviser Steve Bannon about the need for morals on his War Room podcast Thursday. (Watch the video below.)

The two were discussing Louisiana’s controversial mandate that public school classrooms display the Ten Commandments. Republican Gov. Jeff Landry signed the legislation into law on Wednesday. Boebert praised “great friend” Landry and was all-in.

“This is something we need all throughout our nation ... because we need morals back in our nation, back in our schools,” she said in a clip surfaced by MeidasTouch Network. “If there’s anything we are going to present in front of our children, it’s going to be, it should be, the word of God. Because this is the one truth that is never going to change and never going to leave them. It’s not some woke fad of the day that you can get cancelled for believing in 10 years from now.”

And if there is anything that will rile up people on X, the former Twitter, it’s people living in glass houses who throw stones.

Boebert was infamously tossed from a staging of “Beetlejuice” after vaping, talking and groping her date during the performance. She and her campaign falsely denied her disruptive behavior before video emerged and she apologized.

Bannon is scheduled to head to prison in a matter of days for defying a Jan. 6-related subpoena and faces a trial on another matter ― allegedly defrauding contributors to a fund to build a southern border wall.
[url]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lauren-b ... b80d90f21a[/url

An amoral Alley Cat in heat has more morals than the of those two reprobates.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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CDFingers wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 11:23 am "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." The Church of Satan eventually will win, and all copies of the Commandments will disappear from all classrooms.

CDF
The issue that will be fought over are two fold.

First is the fact that The State of XYZ is Not Congress and that the Tenth Amendment's reserved clause gives State XYZ the authority.

And second, they will argue that God's Law overrides Man's Law.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

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That's why I quoted "an establishment of religion." It's pretty unambiguous. I think the best they can do is to have God and Satan battle it out on pay per view.

On edit, I don't think any state could use the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to start slavery in their state. This is why I think that after many lawyers make much money, either the Commandments will go, or we'll see Satanic stuff on classroom walls. Not likely.

CDF
Crippled but free, I was blind all the time I was learning to see.

Re: GOP gov’s Ten Commandments bill 'flagrantly' violates First Amendment: legal expert

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Often omitted when quoting the Second Amendment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary for a free state..."

Recently omitted from the First, ..."or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

As for drugs; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182227/

I did not connect gender affirmation treatment with religion in general or to the text of the 1st Amendment. I pointed out what appeared to be a double standard when it comes to trust. I have children, and grandchildren. Have been around lots and lots of kids my whole life. I can assure you that they are not as a group, stupid, gullible blank slates, ripe for biblical brainwashing. Besides, churches do some good, along with the evil that everyone else is doing without the help of a deity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEUrYjE_kjc

All said, I agree that religion should stay out of the public school system, not for the hate and fear that someone might find God on the public dime, rather that as many have already said, there is not sufficient time, money, teachers, or need to do so. A major problem is that everyone has to either run to catch up, (the slow students), or waste precious time waiting, (the bright students), while the system caters to mediocrity.

Religion, like government, is not the problem, It's people trying to acquire or retain power by and within them.

Hope may not be a plan, but a plan without hope isn't much of one either.

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