All of a sudden, I'm seeing videos and ads for CCI's new Uppercut .22 ammo.

It is claimed to be a self-defense round "optimized for semi-auto pistols with barrel length from 2.5" to 4"." One video I bothered to watch touted the "beautiful" expansion of the hollow-point in ballistic gel when fired out of three or four barrel lengths.

It's not on AmmoSeek yet, though. It's a new-enough product that even RangeUSA (the least-cringey gun shop local to me) doesn't show it in stock yet. At almost a quarter-shekel per round, I don't see myself buying deep in that any time soon, since the only pistol I have that is chambered for .22 is a Ruger Wrangler revolver. I suspect this new fancy round would run well enough in that, but I bought it more as a plinker than as a self-defense piece. Still, I may consider it if I figure out that it's more concealable than my M&P Shield 9...

Thoughts?

That’s a fairly high price for .22LR.

On the one hand, CCI tends to be as reliable as .22LR gets with primers. That's still maybe a 1-2% FTF rate though.

On the other, the same parent company offers Federal Punch, which takes a flat nose .22 Long weight bullet and puts it in a Stinger case. It gets good penetration in gel and in my experience has been extremely accurate as well as reliable. Big bore hunters go on about the advantages of flat nose rounds for balancing penetration versus wound channel compared to expanding hollowpoints, and when you're talking about a round in the 100 foot-pound range for energy, I wonder if that's a better idea. I'm skeptical of expansion in slow, light, small diameter bullets. I'm also cynical about industrial marketing.

It looks like an attempt to use a faster burning pistol powder behind a Stinger. They did skive the jacket though. Do that with a Velocitor, and I might be less skeptical.
https://www.cci-ammunition.com/rimfire/ ... 960CC.html

Video I saw showed consistent but not quite adequate penetration in gel.

I would argue against .22 for self defense. Shot placement is everything. I don't know if we can count on excellent shot placement under stress.

CDFingers

CDFingers, I recognize that there are three things crucial to self defense: shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement. Round caliber seems fourth.

wings, I share your cynicism regarding marketing claims. I don't have access to ballistic gel or a place to use the Paul Harrell Meat Target, so it's hard for me to do my own extensive testing.

sikacz, the price is well over twice what I paid for my last purchase of .22LR plinking rounds, so, yeah, that's expensive, even if one considers self-defense rounds as more complex to make and thus more expensive. My Hornady SD stuff cost about twice what my range ammo cost, so I sort-of see the comparison.

I'm not really in any hurry to buy any of this new stuff, just curious.

Self Defense is like Real Estate; location, Location, LOCATION.

22lr is nearly recoilless and even the small snubby wheel guns offer 6 or more rounds. And honestly, I can't remember the last time I had a failure to fire 22lr from anything but the very cheapest bulk pack ammo.

I've used CCI for years and I agree it's very reliable ammo. Self defense rounds are pricey no matter what caliber. A lot of people live in apartments or condos with common walls and over penetration is a concern. And many people living in those apartments and condos are elderly or disabled and can't shoot larger calibers, so 22lr is better than that proverbial stick. I agree, shot placement is key whatever caliber is used.

highdesert wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:07 am I've used CCI for years and I agree it's very reliable ammo. Self defense rounds are pricey no matter what caliber. A lot of people live in apartments or condos with common walls and over penetration is a concern. And many people living in those apartments and condos are elderly or disabled and can't shoot larger calibers, so 22lr is better than that proverbial stick. I agree, shot placement is key whatever caliber is used.

If it’s the only gun I could use then why not. Not the same but my grandad carried a FN .25acp after WW2 as a night watchman. He had apparently gotten it from one of his soldier buddies. He was definitely a supporter of the better than a stick philosophy. If it’s what you’ll carry a .22LR is better than nothing. I’d go for a small revolver though. Don’t want to deal with misdeed issues with a small semiautomatic.

sikacz wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 11:26 am

highdesert wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:07 am I've used CCI for years and I agree it's very reliable ammo. Self defense rounds are pricey no matter what caliber. A lot of people live in apartments or condos with common walls and over penetration is a concern. And many people living in those apartments and condos are elderly or disabled and can't shoot larger calibers, so 22lr is better than that proverbial stick. I agree, shot placement is key whatever caliber is used.

If it’s the only gun I could use then why not. Not the same but my grandad carried a FN .25acp after WW2 as a night watchman. He had apparently gotten it from one of his soldier buddies. He was definitely a supporter of the better than a stick philosophy. If it’s what you’ll carry a .22LR is better than nothing. I’d go for a small revolver though. Don’t want to deal with misdeed issues with a small semiautomatic.

Those smaller calibers were used for decades, there were a lot of 32 ACP and 380 ACP caliber handguns used by European armies and European law enforcement during WWI and WWII and in later years. After both world wars Europe was awash in firearms like Ruby pistols made in Spain under contract with the French government in WWI. Night watchman could be a dangerous job and having a firearm was smart.

highdesert wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 1:04 pm

sikacz wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 11:26 am

highdesert wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:07 am I've used CCI for years and I agree it's very reliable ammo. Self defense rounds are pricey no matter what caliber. A lot of people live in apartments or condos with common walls and over penetration is a concern. And many people living in those apartments and condos are elderly or disabled and can't shoot larger calibers, so 22lr is better than that proverbial stick. I agree, shot placement is key whatever caliber is used.

If it’s the only gun I could use then why not. Not the same but my grandad carried a FN .25acp after WW2 as a night watchman. He had apparently gotten it from one of his soldier buddies. He was definitely a supporter of the better than a stick philosophy. If it’s what you’ll carry a .22LR is better than nothing. I’d go for a small revolver though. Don’t want to deal with misdeed issues with a small semiautomatic.

Those smaller calibers were used for decades, there were a lot of 32 ACP and 380 ACP caliber handguns used by European armies and European law enforcement during WWI and WWII and in later years. After both world wars Europe was awash in firearms like Ruby pistols made in Spain under contract with the French government in WWI. Night watchman could be a dangerous job and having a firearm was smart.

It was likely he had just retired from military service, a life time. I think he knew the value of a gun no matter how small.

I used to shoot the CCI Stingers a few years back. Zippy little round. My Ruger MKII is set for slower MV, so it shoots high with that pistol. It grouped very well at 100 m outa my Marlin bolt rifle. I think I still have half a box in the closet somewhere. Never a ftf.

CDFingers

I'm sympathetic to the idea that muzzle energy is a meaningful quantity. I also read enough to recognize that practical experience is fundamentally different from theory, and often more informative. Plenty of people killed with .22LR. But at 64 foot pounds of energy from the muzzle, Uppercut has half the energy of a Stinger out of a rifle. There's a lot to be said for a .30 caliber hole, but is it enough? 5.7x28 runs a lot hotter at the same weight, but it doesn't have great penetration either.

I bet this is great on small game, though.

My bolt action doesn’t seem to care what type the 22LR is. Also the revolver isn’t too particular. Only the semiautomatics are a bit particular.