Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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I feel for ya, featureless. The problems with carrying illegally is that if forced to defend yourself with an illegally carried firearm they will crucify you in court even if the shoot is good. I'd probably carry on with the routine and hope for the best.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress. Hope is not a Plan.

Dot 'em if ya got 'em!

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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featureless wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 10:30 am So, a few days into compliance with this horseshit. Wherever I go that is not my house, I have to get out of the car, open the trunk, remove my handgun from pants or "purse", secure in lock box, close trunk and go about whatever. Leave doing whatever and do same process in reverse. How long do you suppose it is before I get contacted by LEO for an exposed gun report? How long before an observant thief breaks into the car and steals the lockbox (it is cable locked to the frame)? One more illegal gun on the streets then.

My options are 1) do not comply and risk everything that goes along with that, or 2) leave the gun at home (which isn't an option) or 3) carry on with this bullshit routine.

How many people who currently have CCWs do you suppose will continue to bother getting a CCW and just carry illegally? The state and the circuit court has pushed this wonderful decision on us.
I agree that an exposed gun report is likely and it's quite possible that it gets embellished. The CA formula is make owning and carrying guns as difficult as possible. Once upon a time it was legal to carry an unloaded gun, but Democrats and their super majority in the CA Legislature made it illegal. I have a locked box that is cabled to the passenger seat and hidden that I use, I have the mags separate in CA. I have a hatchback model.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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highdesert wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:37 am
featureless wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 10:30 am So, a few days into compliance with this horseshit. Wherever I go that is not my house, I have to get out of the car, open the trunk, remove my handgun from pants or "purse", secure in lock box, close trunk and go about whatever. Leave doing whatever and do same process in reverse. How long do you suppose it is before I get contacted by LEO for an exposed gun report? How long before an observant thief breaks into the car and steals the lockbox (it is cable locked to the frame)? One more illegal gun on the streets then.

My options are 1) do not comply and risk everything that goes along with that, or 2) leave the gun at home (which isn't an option) or 3) carry on with this bullshit routine.

How many people who currently have CCWs do you suppose will continue to bother getting a CCW and just carry illegally? The state and the circuit court has pushed this wonderful decision on us.
I agree that an exposed gun report is likely and it's quite possible that it gets embellished. The CA formula is make owning and carrying guns as difficult as possible. Once upon a time it was legal to carry an unloaded gun, but Democrats and their super majority in the CA Legislature made it illegal. I have a locked box that is cabled to the passenger seat and hidden that I use, I have the mags separate in CA. I have a hatchback model.
My car doesn't have space for a lock box under the seats 9r I'd do that. Not interested in investing in a new vehicle to meet SB2 requirements! So trunk it is.

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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featureless wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:46 am
highdesert wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:37 am
featureless wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 10:30 am So, a few days into compliance with this horseshit. Wherever I go that is not my house, I have to get out of the car, open the trunk, remove my handgun from pants or "purse", secure in lock box, close trunk and go about whatever. Leave doing whatever and do same process in reverse. How long do you suppose it is before I get contacted by LEO for an exposed gun report? How long before an observant thief breaks into the car and steals the lockbox (it is cable locked to the frame)? One more illegal gun on the streets then.

My options are 1) do not comply and risk everything that goes along with that, or 2) leave the gun at home (which isn't an option) or 3) carry on with this bullshit routine.

How many people who currently have CCWs do you suppose will continue to bother getting a CCW and just carry illegally? The state and the circuit court has pushed this wonderful decision on us.
I agree that an exposed gun report is likely and it's quite possible that it gets embellished. The CA formula is make owning and carrying guns as difficult as possible. Once upon a time it was legal to carry an unloaded gun, but Democrats and their super majority in the CA Legislature made it illegal. I have a locked box that is cabled to the passenger seat and hidden that I use, I have the mags separate in CA. I have a hatchback model.
My car doesn't have space for a lock box under the seats 9r I'd do that. Not interested in investing in a new vehicle to meet SB2 requirements! So trunk it is.
This should be repealed immediately. There’s no concern for people’s safety and designed to out gun owners to the public, police and thieves.
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Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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sikacz wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:32 pm This should be repealed immediately. There’s no concern for people’s safety and designed to out gun owners to the public, police and thieves.
But it won't be. Want to know the real shit? CA9 stayed the injunction on CA's version of the CCW ban but did not stay the injunction on HI's version. Same circuit court and virtually the same lawsuit. The private property restriction has been enjoined in every court to hear it, including CA2 for New York's version. California and CA9 are absolutely in bed together. CA9's dishonesty wrt 2A has become grotesquely obvious.

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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"They" are disarming Amerika and they really don't seem to care who sees it or resists/protests. My question is why? The desperation amongst the Democrats/Far Left to disarm US is palpable and seemingly the 2A/5A/14A are being ignored if not disassembled. The SCOTUS is being ignored and flipped the bird. Why?

My question is what is coming that the .01% are this desperate to disarm Amerika? What Plan does the Oligarchy that runs this country have that demands disarmament?

Living in Illinois and watching this BS go National is really scary. What's coming after disarmament?

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress. Hope is not a Plan.

Dot 'em if ya got 'em!

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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Resources are scarce and eventually the elites don’t need workers with increased automation. Not hard to figure out. They don’t want us to be a threat when that time comes. Neoliberals and conservatives have the same goal, money for corporations and their owners.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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Maybe it's just me but I don't see disarment on such a massive scale being feasible. There are so many guns in private hands that we can't even say with any confidence how many there are. Especially with the advent of 3d printers.

"They" would essentially have to get every gun owner to agree to willingly hand over all their guns in order to effectively disarm the entire country. That would never happen. I wouldn't comply, would you? Nor do I believe there are enough useful idiots out there to make a nationwide prohibition and confiscation effort feasible. Certainly not without a massive amount of bloodshed.

That there are people trying to make it damn near impossible for more guns to end up in private hands is undeniable. I'm just saying that I remember when Obama was going to "take all our guns from us," too.

Then again, I guess I shouldn't totally dismiss the possibility that the total disarming of the American public is a goal, even if it is a practical impossibility.
Last edited by NonServiam on Sat Jan 06, 2024 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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NonServiam wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 9:23 am Maybe it's just me but I don't see disarment on such a massive scale being feasible. There are so many guns in private hands that we can't even say with any confidence how many there are. Especially with the advent of 3d printers.

"They" would essentially have to get every gun owner to agree to willingly hand over all their guns in order to effectively disarm the entire country. That would never happen. I wouldn't comply, would you? Nor do I believe there are enough useful idiots out there to make a nationwide prohibition and confiscation effort feasible. Certainly not with a massive amount of bloodshed.

That there are people trying to make it damn near impossible for more guns to end up in private hands is undeniable. I'm just saying that I remember when Obama was going to "take all our guns from us," too.

Then again, I guess I shouldn't totally dismiss the possibility that the total disarming of the American public is a goal, even if it is a practical impossibility.
Agree it isn't practical to "take the guns." Even in the EU, there are still guns, legal and illegal ones. The aim, as you say, is to make it damn near impossible to obtain and damn near impossible to use.

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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Agree that mandating everyone to surrender their firearms and collecting every single one is impossible. Europe tried it after two world wars and there are still a lot of firearms out there. There is no way people will turn in all their firearms and there aren't enough hero cops to go searching for them. So states like California, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Illinois, Massachusetts...keep adding laws that they hope eventually trip up responsible gun owners and turn them into felons and they lose all their firearms. California's new concealed carry law SB 2 and NY's new concealed carry law are the latest examples. Oregon and Washington are imitating California.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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I don't think they can disarm US in one fell swoop. They *can* and are making it so convoluted and difficult that people who don't live and breath firearms possession will just give up, bit by bit, over time. That's my biggest fear is that these attacks on th 2A will continue and increase over time.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress. Hope is not a Plan.

Dot 'em if ya got 'em!

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 10:08 am I don't think they can disarm US in one fell swoop. They *can* and are making it so convoluted and difficult that people who don't live and breath firearms possession will just give up, bit by bit, over time. That's my biggest fear is that these attacks on th 2A will continue and increase over time.

VooDoo
CA also has the shrinking handgun roster to throttle what comes into the state. The AWB does not allow registered assault weapons to be passed down when you croak. Both laws have been in court for years. CA has a new law adding 11% tax to firearms. I'm sure the percentage will be subject to increase.

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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It’ll never be one single big massive swoop. It’s exactly the way it’s happening now, one state and a number of cuts, laws at a time. Each time one of us accepts that this particular law or another isn’t that bad because I can have “x” or I can afford to pay that person is contributing to the eventual nullification of a right into a privilege. Once the elites have managed to create enough laws that no one gets to own guns unless they are the right person judged by their arbitrary criteria their job is done. Eventually there won’t be any place to carry or the cost of ownership made so high by legal requirements to possess that only a select few will have arms. It’s incremental, if you don’t believe me, look at California and this thread. Sure we have a few Californians that call out the BS, but we also have some that accept the infringement and are willing to vote away a right. You can still have “x” is a small comfort until “x” is put on the ban list. You can still get a license if you jump through hoops and then you won’t be able to carry it anywhere as the list of forbidden places grow. I don’t see gun ownership as a single issue, it’s more complicated. It’s a civil rights issue, a fundamental constitutional issue, it’s the right to balance interests of the individual against oppression state or corporate, it’s the right to self defense, and it’s a key principal part of the bill of rights, a cornerstone. Once it’s shown how a right can be removed, how long does anyone think another amendment won’t be put on the chopping block. What guarantees that someone doesn’t want to redefine personhood and who has rights. The right person argument can be used in any number of instances to reframe who has a right to vote, speak or even exist. If you think I’m wrong look at the increased number of laws that are restrictions on people. Both major parties do it and play the sides against each other. Both major parties have one thing in common, they are furthering the interests of elites and corporations. There’s little difference between anti transgender bills and anti second amendment bills, both are after the same thing. Put restraints on people, reduce their autonomy, and create a sense that only certain people can make judgments, the right people.
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Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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I'm not so sure I want to light my hair afire and run about aimlessly in California if I can't own every hand gun offered for sale in America. Just not sure. I have sufficient anti personnel weapons that are OK for possession in California. I'm not so sure I need to freak out if I can't buy yet another one. Just not sure.

CDFingers
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Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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CDFingers wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:27 am I'm not so sure I want to light my hair afire and run about aimlessly in California if I can't own every hand gun offered for sale in America. Just not sure. I have sufficient anti personnel weapons that are OK for possession in California. I'm not so sure I need to freak out if I can't buy yet another one. Just not sure.

CDFingers
I think you're missing the point. This is not a privilege. This is a RIGHT, and California's restrictions on this RIGHT are totally unreasonable.

The only "reasonable" restrictions I can see regarding the 2A is as follows. If the police can have it, so should we. Given the repeatedly demonstrated racism of California police against non-Whites (especially Blacks), this seems totally reasonable to me. I see no valid reason to arm the police with more than what the average racial minority person can have. Wanna have a roster? Magazine capacity bans? "A-SALT WEPPENZ" bans? OK, then the police are subject to the bans, too.
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Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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Californians with a gun-carry permit can lawfully carry a gun in most areas of the state once again. A three-judge panel on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals removed a stay applied to a lower court ruling against California’s SB2, which created a near-total ban on gun carry in the state. The action reinstates the lower court ruling that found the law violated the Second Amendment rights of those with gun-carry permits. “The administrative stay previously entered is dissolved,” the panel wrote in May v. Bonta. “The emergency motion under Circuit Rule 27-3 for a stay pending appeal and for an interim administrative stay is denied pending further order of the court.”

The administrative move, like the one that preceded it, has a huge practical effect. The stay allowed the state to implement dozens of expansive “gun-free” zones at the beginning of the year, including one on every piece of private property unless the owner explicitly authorizes gun carry. The cumulative effect of the new “sensitive places” restrictions added up to an effective ban on gun carry. Undoing the stay practically undoes enforcement of those new zones as the case against them proceeds on appeal. California Attorney General Rob Bonta (D.) did not respond to a request for comment on the order. However, gun-rights advocates celebrated the stay being dissolved.

“The right to carry in California was unconstitutionally eliminated for almost a week,” Kostas Moros, a lawyer for plaintiffs California Pistol and Rifle Association, told The Reload. “We are relieved the status quo has been restored, and Californians with CCW permits, who are among the most law-abiding people there are, can resume carrying as they have for years.” The panel’s actions reinstate the preliminary injunction issued against the law by U.S. District Judge Cormac J. Carney in December. Carney found SB2 “unconstitutionally deprive” permitholders “of their constitutional right to carry a handgun in public for self-defense.” He further accused California of intentionally ignoring and undermining the Supreme Court’s decision in 2022’s New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen, which established carrying a gun for self-defense is protected by the Constitution.

“SB2’s coverage is sweeping, repugnant to the Second Amendment, and openly defiant of the Supreme Court,” Carney, a George W. Bush appointee, wrote. “The law designates twenty-six categories of places, such as hospitals, public transportation, places that sell liquor for on-site consumption, playgrounds, parks, casinos, stadiums, libraries, amusement parks, zoos, places of worship, and banks, as ‘sensitive places’ where concealed carry permitholders cannot carry their handguns. SB2 turns nearly every public place in California into a ‘sensitive place,’ effectively abolishing the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding and exceptionally qualified citizens to be armed and to defend themselves in public.” The panel could still reconsider part of the stay before arguments in the case are actually heard. Those arguments are currently scheduled to occur in April.
https://thereload.com/gun-carry-lawful- ... to-effect/


Chuck Michell's law firm petitioned the 9th Circuit to reconsider its stay on 1/4/2024. Their pleading was that a stay should preserve the status quo until the case can be decided and this stay allowed SB 2 to take effect which totally disrupts the status quo.
The unusual application of an administrative stay to disrupt a long-standing
status quo, combined with the absence of any clear indication as to when that
administrative stay might be lifted, presents the urgent circumstances that warrant
this request for relief. Moreover, as with the individual Plaintiffs-Appellees, tens of
thousands of members of the associational Plaintiffs-Appellees, and hundreds of
thousands of other citizens with CCW licenses are suffering from the loss of their
fundamental right to bear arms in almost all public places.
https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/up ... 2482.1.pdf

Wonder if the 9th Circuit judges heard unofficially from other judges with concealed carry licenses who were limited in where they could carry with SB 2 allowed to take effect.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Judge blocks new CA carry law

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Yes, a very good day. The stay was issued by the law and motions panel of the 9th and it was apparently lifted by the 3 judge panel that will decide the two cases - May v Bonta and Carralero v Bonta. I'd bet that at least two of the judges on the panel are W or Trump appointees.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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