Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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(Reuters) - Former United States Secretary of State Henry Kissinger died on Wednesday at his home in Connecticut at the age of 100, Kissinger Associates, Inc said in a statement.
https://www.rawstory.com/henry-kissing ... er-at-100/

I’m sure there will be many that will say RIP and many will say Roast In Hell.

Long article here; https://www.huffpost.com/entry/henry-k ... ce046cb44f
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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From Rolling Stone:
Henry Kissinger, War Criminal Beloved by America’s Ruling Class, Finally Dies
The infamy of Nixon's foreign-policy architect sits, eternally, beside that of history's worst mass murderers. A deeper shame attaches to the country that celebrates him
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 234804748/
Measuring purely by confirmed kills, the worst mass murderer ever executed by the United States was the white-supremacist terrorist Timothy McVeigh. On April 19, 1995, McVeigh detonated a massive bomb at the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people, including 19 children. The government killed McVeigh by lethal injection in June 2001. ... McVeigh, who in his own psychotic way thought he was saving America, never remotely killed on the scale of Kissinger, the most revered American grand strategist of the second half of the 20th century.

The Yale University historian Greg Grandin, author of the biography Kissinger’s Shadow, estimates that Kissinger’s actions from 1969 through 1976, a period of eight brief years when Kissinger made Richard Nixon’s and then Gerald Ford’s foreign policy as national security adviser and secretary of state, meant the end of between three and four million people. That includes “crimes of commission,” he explained, as in Cambodia and Chile, and omission, like greenlighting Indonesia’s bloodshed in East Timor; Pakistan’s bloodshed in Bangladesh; and the inauguration of an American tradition of using and then abandoning the Kurds.
It's a long read, but well worth it. If you like podcasts, I'd recommend the Behind The Bastards six-parter on Kissinger from March 2022. It also gives some insight into the five year stretch of the Cold War where the US President was a blackout drunk with his hand on the button. (For context of how much the host of BtB hates Kissinger, Mengele only got four episodes, and John Wayne got three.)

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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I’ll give a toast to his passing. I’d remind everyone thought, that he was bad, but he was also representative of how we have done business in the past and present. I know looking in the mirror hurts. We’ve f’d people over many times and supported tyrants and other assholes and small countries have paid the price. It’s not just henry that needs to be admonished.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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Love him or hate him, Kissinger had an impact on US and international foreign policy from the late 1950s until his death. Kissinger never retired unlike most diplomats and academics, he kept consulting and writing books until the end.
Few diplomats have been both celebrated and reviled with such passion as Mr. Kissinger. Considered the most powerful secretary of state in the post-World War II era, he was by turns hailed as an ultrarealist who reshaped diplomacy to reflect American interests and denounced as having abandoned American values, particularly in the arena of human rights, if he thought it served the nation’s purposes. He advised 12 presidents — more than a quarter of those who have held the office — from John F. Kennedy to Joseph R. Biden Jr. With a scholar’s understanding of diplomatic history, a German-Jewish refugee’s drive to succeed in his adopted land, a deep well of insecurity and a lifelong Bavarian accent that sometimes added an indecipherable element to his pronouncements, he transformed almost every global relationship he touched.
He continued to wield influence in world affairs, and through his firm, Kissinger Associates, he advised corporations and executives on international trends and looming difficulties. When Disney sought to navigate the Chinese leadership to build a $5.5 billion park in Shanghai, Mr. Kissinger got the call. “Henry is certainly one of the most complex characters in recent American history,” said David Rothkopf, a former managing director of Mr. Kissinger’s consulting firm. “And he is someone who has, I think, justifiably been in the spotlight both for extraordinary brilliance and competence and, at the same time, clear defects.”
He was the architect of the Nixon administration’s efforts to topple Chile’s democratically elected Socialist president, Salvador Allende. He has been accused of breaking international law by authorizing the secret carpet-bombing of Cambodia in 1969-70, an undeclared war on an ostensibly neutral nation.
Kissinger's China diplomacy led to Nixon's visit and the opening to China.
There was something fundamentally simple, if terrifying, in the superpower conflicts he navigated. He never had to deal with terrorist groups like Al Qaeda or the Islamic State, or a world in which nations use social media to manipulate public opinion and cyberattacks to undermine power grids and communications. “The Cold War was more dangerous,” Mr. Kissinger said in a 2016 appearance at the New-York Historical Society. “Both sides were willing to go to general nuclear war.” But, he added, “today is more complex.”
For decades he remained the country’s most important voice on managing China’s rise, and the economic, military and technological challenges it posed. He was the only American to deal with every Chinese leader from Mao to Xi Jinping. In July, at age 100, he met Mr. Xi and other Chinese leaders in Beijing, where he was treated like visiting royalty even as relations with Washington had turned adversarial.
Yet he warned against underestimating Vladimir V. Putin, the Russian leader. Making reference to Hitler’s autobiographical manifesto, he said: “In order to understand Putin, one has to read Dostoyevsky, not ‘Mein Kampf.’ He believes Russia was cheated, that we keep taking advantage of it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/us/h ... -dead.html

Kissinger's history is long and complex starting with his escape from Nazis Germany, his mentors Fritz Kraemer and William Yandell Elliott and his long association with Richard Nixon.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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I must confess that I'm both apalled and not surprised by the ruling class singing Henry's praises. Corporations always benefited from his positions. The poor and dispossessed always fought his wars. But, dang. That bottom line kept growing.

America is a corporatist state. I suppose we have to be glad we'll be able to prevent us from becoming a fascist state. I sure would like to see a movement to break up Big Tech similar to the one that broke up Ma Bell.

Hey: dreams and hope are both strategies. Faulty and weak, but strategies nonetheless.

CDFingers
The wheel is turning and you can't slow down. You can't let go and you can't hold on.
You can't go back and you can't stand still. If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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Few people in history has been involved in making decisions that would literally unleash hell on earth… then receive public recognition and thanks for ending it. Sharing a Nobel Peace Award for wrapping up America’s misadventures in Vietnam is simply astounding to me especially given that Henry Kissinger allowed (if not devised) the carpet bombing of the neutral country of Cambodia. There is no legal/moral justification to indiscriminately rain terror down on civilians for nearly half a decade killing 150k of them directly. The carpet bombing of the nonaligned country effectively became the single greatest recruiting tool for the Khmer Rouge who, after the end of the “American War”, swept the country and proceeded to execute and torture to death a full quarter of the country’s population (1.5 to 3 million!) in a fit of madness. Many psychologists have attributed this insanity to the years of relentless bombing and fear of sudden random death as the cause for collective PTSD among the Cambodians. Henry Kissinger, who was nearly put on trial as a war criminal several times, instead is remembered with the peace medal for his hidden handiwork.

In my travels as a young man, I met an Arab who had been imprisoned for political activities who blame the world’s ills on America. At the time I felt it strange to see a grown Arab man sitting across from me on a bus, holding his slight son, saying in very clear English, “I love Americans, but I hate Madeleine Albright. I would kill her if she was here. I would kill her without thinking.” The though of an adult man harboring such vitriol for an old woman was foreign to me at the time. This was before 2001 and in the years since I’ve been piecing together that American foreign policy is NOT being the world’s police but in fact an agenda of imperialism. It is only now that I fully understand such cold anger that I saw on his face in thinking about the horror and devastation that Henry Kissinger was involved in for the Vietnam War; the heartbreaking horrors he personally signed off on for so many Asians and Americans.

We Americans like to say “Remember 9/11” as it were a rally cry for a perceived injustice. I really wish Americans would also say, “Remember Henry Kissinger,” (or Madeliene Albright) and understand, truly know what that means. Then they might see 9/11 properly as retribution the way the CIA calls “blowback”.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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To clearly view history one has to distance oneself from it and that's not possible for us, because we lived through the Kissinger era and we have strong opinions on Kissinger and his actions. Kissinger wrote a book (actually his doctoral dissertation at Harvard), it's still in print on Prince Klemens von Metternich of Austria and Viscount Castlereagh of the UK, they created a post Napoleonic world that lasted until WWI. It's apparent that Kissinger saw himself shaping a post Cold War world that favored the US, it's up to future historians to objectively weigh his positives and negatives.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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Bisbee wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:38 pm Few people in history has been involved in making decisions that would literally unleash hell on earth… then receive public recognition and thanks for ending it. Sharing a Nobel Peace Award for wrapping up America’s misadventures in Vietnam is simply astounding to me especially given that Henry Kissinger allowed (if not devised) the carpet bombing of the neutral country of Cambodia. There is no legal/moral justification to indiscriminately rain terror down on civilians for nearly half a decade killing 150k of them directly. The carpet bombing of the nonaligned country effectively became the single greatest recruiting tool for the Khmer Rouge who, after the end of the “American War”, swept the country and proceeded to execute and torture to death a full quarter of the country’s population (1.5 to 3 million!) in a fit of madness. Many psychologists have attributed this insanity to the years of relentless bombing and fear of sudden random death as the cause for collective PTSD among the Cambodians. Henry Kissinger, who was nearly put on trial as a war criminal several times, instead is remembered with the peace medal for his hidden handiwork.

In my travels as a young man, I met an Arab who had been imprisoned for political activities who blame the world’s ills on America. At the time I felt it strange to see a grown Arab man sitting across from me on a bus, holding his slight son, saying in very clear English, “I love Americans, but I hate Madeleine Albright. I would kill her if she was here. I would kill her without thinking.” The though of an adult man harboring such vitriol for an old woman was foreign to me at the time. This was before 2001 and in the years since I’ve been piecing together that American foreign policy is NOT being the world’s police but in fact an agenda of imperialism. It is only now that I fully understand such cold anger that I saw on his face in thinking about the horror and devastation that Henry Kissinger was involved in for the Vietnam War; the heartbreaking horrors he personally signed off on for so many Asians and Americans.

We Americans like to say “Remember 9/11” as it were a rally cry for a perceived injustice. I really wish Americans would also say, “Remember Henry Kissinger,” (or Madeliene Albright) and understand, truly know what that means. Then they might see 9/11 properly as retribution the way the CIA calls “blowback”.
Well said.
"it's a goddamn impossible way of life"
"And so it goes"

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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geno wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:04 pm
Bisbee wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:38 pm Few people in history has been involved in making decisions that would literally unleash hell on earth… then receive public recognition and thanks for ending it. Sharing a Nobel Peace Award for wrapping up America’s misadventures in Vietnam is simply astounding to me especially given that Henry Kissinger allowed (if not devised) the carpet bombing of the neutral country of Cambodia. There is no legal/moral justification to indiscriminately rain terror down on civilians for nearly half a decade killing 150k of them directly. The carpet bombing of the nonaligned country effectively became the single greatest recruiting tool for the Khmer Rouge who, after the end of the “American War”, swept the country and proceeded to execute and torture to death a full quarter of the country’s population (1.5 to 3 million!) in a fit of madness. Many psychologists have attributed this insanity to the years of relentless bombing and fear of sudden random death as the cause for collective PTSD among the Cambodians. Henry Kissinger, who was nearly put on trial as a war criminal several times, instead is remembered with the peace medal for his hidden handiwork.

In my travels as a young man, I met an Arab who had been imprisoned for political activities who blame the world’s ills on America. At the time I felt it strange to see a grown Arab man sitting across from me on a bus, holding his slight son, saying in very clear English, “I love Americans, but I hate Madeleine Albright. I would kill her if she was here. I would kill her without thinking.” The though of an adult man harboring such vitriol for an old woman was foreign to me at the time. This was before 2001 and in the years since I’ve been piecing together that American foreign policy is NOT being the world’s police but in fact an agenda of imperialism. It is only now that I fully understand such cold anger that I saw on his face in thinking about the horror and devastation that Henry Kissinger was involved in for the Vietnam War; the heartbreaking horrors he personally signed off on for so many Asians and Americans.

We Americans like to say “Remember 9/11” as it were a rally cry for a perceived injustice. I really wish Americans would also say, “Remember Henry Kissinger,” (or Madeliene Albright) and understand, truly know what that means. Then they might see 9/11 properly as retribution the way the CIA calls “blowback”.
Well said.
Agreed well said. We need to remember we have had an agenda of imperialism since before we were a separate country with the Britain, France and Spain In North America. When we became a separate country we continued the same against the Native American people. Later against the British again and the Mexican government. We even told the European governments that the North American waters and lands were off limits under the Monroe Doctrine. This has continued into today with multiple military, foreign diplomatic interventions, and intelligence agency operations to control or overthrow other countries.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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Being Agnostic, I don't see harm in telling the truth about someone who dies, good and bad.
I never had any respect for Henry Kissinger. Despite being cold, ruthless, power-hungry, responsible for overthrowing governments, and directly and indirectly the deaths of millions, I have always believed he was INCOMPETENT!

Kissinger was very much like Trump: He always believed he was the smartest person in the room, smart enough to ignore the experts are the NSA and the seasoned professionals at the State Dept and in The Foreign Service. Like Trump, he believed that he was SO smart and SO perceptive and persuasive, he could convince opponents to deal. His deals were 1000 miles wide and 1/8" thick, and most fell apart or broke in very bad ways. He was a showman so "Shuttle Diplomacy" sounded like the Chief Surgeon, the best of them all, was taking up the scalpel. But like Trump, he was "played" only better at making it look good. After all, he was "Dr. Kissinger, the scholar".
The Vietnam deal was a sham and we saw Saigon fall while he was SecState.
Is Russia an ally and friend? Nope.
And what did opening China do? The old cold-warriors say it split China from the USSR but that's pure CRAP--they fought several FEROCIOUS border wars and Mao REFUSED to come under Stalin's, or his successors' control. What it did, instead, was open up the opportunity for China to usurp almost every American industry--another failure.
Did causing Allende's death cure ANYTHING? Pinochet was a cruel, sadistic dictator who did things like have musicians' hands broken.

Cruel, and incompetent.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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I agree YT, I was never a fan of Kissinger. Initially I saw him as Nixon's "Eminence Grise" and he continued after Nixon resigned as secretary of state in the Ford administration. Agree with him or not, he was an influential American figure in world politics for decades after he left public office.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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Wino wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:37 am I'm still pissed she destroyed the JFK Rose Garden. All immediate Trump family spore are trashy rich. I hold little hope Barron will be any different once an adult.
I'm just happy the Swedish Ivy appears to have survived. I've got some downstairs from the Clinton years. Grows like a damn weed.

https://denverite.com/2020/04/16/housep ... ful-plant/

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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A very interesting piece of horticultural history wooglin. And of course it has nothing to do with Sweden, it originates in South Africa like two of my favorite plants geraniums and pelargoniums.

Between Trump and Irish PM Leo Varadkar is a bowl of shamrocks, every year for St Patrick's Day the Irish PM brings the US president a bowl of shamrocks. It's not political in any way, it just shows the ties between Ireland and the US.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Henry Kissinger, American diplomat and Nobel winner, dead at 100

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highdesert wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:26 am I agree YT, I was never a fan of Kissinger. Initially I saw him as Nixon's "Eminence Grise" and he continued after Nixon resigned as secretary of state in the Ford administration. Agree with him or not, he was an influential American figure in world politics for decades after he left public office.
Influential? Yes. A positive influence? No, not in my opinion. I turned 13 in 1968, and was more politically aware than most kids in my age group. My 8th grade teacher asked our class "Who will President-Elect Nixon pick for his cabinet?" expecting people to say "The best and most qualified." I piped up with "He'll pick all Republicans!" Mr. R_, the teacher, got very flustered and said "No, no, he'll pick the best." All of Nixon's initial cabinet choices were, indeed, Republicans, just as I predicted. Eventually, he added a Democrat, John Connally, who was shot with JFK and survived, I THINK, at Treasury. Connally later turned his coat to join the GOP.

Kissinger IMMEDIATELY as Nat. Sec. Adviser set out to undermine SecState William Rogers, because that's the kind of shit he was.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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