0.38 Sp. is for revolvers and 9x19 is for automatics. That's the general rule. 0.38 was originally a black powder round, which is why the case is so big. So, 9mm is a more efficient use of space and materials than .38 is. There are a number of 9x19 revolvers on the market, but all the double action options require moon clips to eject easily. None of this is news.

So, my suggestion to the firearm and ammunition industry is for a new cartridge: 9mm rimmed. Let's call it 9x20R. It's a round that's as compact as 9x19 NATO, but is rimmed for revolvers without moon clips. Thoughts?

I've had several 9mm revolvers and still have a 9mm cylinder for one of my SA clones and frankly, never found any real advantage other than that at times 9mm ammo was cheaper. But then I love moon clips and so that part was never an issue. In DA revolvers I'll pick one with a moon clip over one without every time. It's simply faster to reload.

Charter Arms makes the Pitbull in 9 mm that doesn't require moon clips. And the very expensive Nighthawk-Korth 9 mm revolver doesn't need them.

Here's another offering from Ruger that may be if interest.

https://ruger.com/products/newModelBlac ... /5246.html

The Taurus Convertible 692 Tracker can be loaded without the moon clips but they recommend you use the clips.

.45 Auto Rim doesn't have an inspiring track record as a precedent. I guess you can still buy the brass though?

The problem with 9mm in a revolver isn't the moon clips, it's the bullet jumping the terrible crimp on cheap range ammo under recoil in a snubbie.

Doesn't .38 Super have a rim? There's a cartridge that could use a comeback. Since 9mm / .357 convertibles are a thing, I would imagine you could squeeze a .356 bullet down the same barrels as long as you had an appropriate cylinder. It should headspace on the case mouth just like .45 ACP and 9mm, but have enough rim for the extractor to work with. I guess having yet another convertible cylinder detracts from the joy of having another gun, though.

Deep13 wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:26 am 0.38 Sp. is for revolvers and 9x19 is for automatics. That's the general rule. 0.38 was originally a black powder round, which is why the case is so big. So, 9mm is a more efficient use of space and materials than .38 is. There are a number of 9x19 revolvers on the market, but all the double action options require moon clips to eject easily. None of this is news.

So, my suggestion to the firearm and ammunition industry is for a new cartridge: 9mm rimmed. Let's call it 9x20R. It's a round that's as compact as 9x19 NATO, but is rimmed for revolvers without moon clips. Thoughts?

Considering the demand of such a round would be teeny, tiny, it would be expensive. Compared to 38S, don't see any advantage. A 'compact' round for a revolver..is that something people ask for?

F4FEver wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:09 am

Deep13 wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:26 am 0.38 Sp. is for revolvers and 9x19 is for automatics. That's the general rule. 0.38 was originally a black powder round, which is why the case is so big. So, 9mm is a more efficient use of space and materials than .38 is. There are a number of 9x19 revolvers on the market, but all the double action options require moon clips to eject easily. None of this is news.

So, my suggestion to the firearm and ammunition industry is for a new cartridge: 9mm rimmed. Let's call it 9x20R. It's a round that's as compact as 9x19 NATO, but is rimmed for revolvers without moon clips. Thoughts?

Considering the demand of such a round would be teeny, tiny, it would be expensive. Compared to 38S, don't see any advantage. A 'compact' round for a revolver..is that something people ask for?

It would have one advantage when it comes to rapid reloads since a shorter cartridge is significantly easier and faster to reload than the relatively long 38 Special. I can reload 38 S&W considerably faster and more reliably than 38 Spl using HKS speed loaders.

But again, moon clips are still faster and more reliable than any speed loader I've ever tried.

Then I would suggest the .38 Short Colt case for this application. First, it already exists. Second, any .38 Special revolver can chamber and fire it, just like .357M's can chamber .38 Spl. Third, you can load the .38 Short Colt case to .38 Spl pressures. And fourth, it's short, like a 9mm Luger case, so it ejects very easily out of a .38 Spl revolver.

There's a fellow over on the CalGuns forum who competes with his .38 Special S&W N-frame, an 8-shot Model 627, using this exact setup. He's also had his Model 627 milled for moon clips so that he can also do Jerry Miculek-style reloads (albeit not nearly as rapidly--Mr. Miculek's too fast to be human). Yes, he is a reloader, and this sort of thing is a great case for getting into reloading. Brass is available from Starline.

Federal briefly loaded a rimmed cartridge in 9mm, then quickly stepped when they realized that its dimensions were very close to the .38 S&W. The reason they stopped is that if someone tried to fire a 9mm rimmed in a .38 S&W revolver, it would have blown the pistol up.

S&W made a really nice police revolver for the foreign market that used 9mm Luger. It had a special fork that fit it the indent in the shell. They command a premium on the used market.