Universal burns Dirty with lots of particles left in the bore on hot magnum loads.I used quite a bit of it during the pandemic. 2400 & h-110 burns much cleaner.cooper wrote:I haven't used Unique, but I'm using Universal right now. Most of what I've read says they are very similar. Anyone with experience with both?
Good to know. It seemed dirty to me, but I figured I was doing something wrong.INVICTVS138 wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:03 pmUniversal burns Dirty with lots of particles left in the bore on hot magnum loads.I used quite a bit of it during the pandemic. 2400 & h-110 burns much cleaner.cooper wrote:I haven't used Unique, but I'm using Universal right now. Most of what I've read says they are very similar. Anyone with experience with both?
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I thought so too, but I had a lot of experience shooting cleaner burners before the pandemic with 2400 & h-110.cooper wrote:Good to know. It seemed dirty to me, but I figured I was doing something wrong.INVICTVS138 wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:03 pmUniversal burns Dirty with lots of particles left in the bore on hot magnum loads.I used quite a bit of it during the pandemic. 2400 & h-110 burns much cleaner.cooper wrote:I haven't used Unique, but I'm using Universal right now. Most of what I've read says they are very similar. Anyone with experience with both?
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Cooper, are you using your own boolits or factory made?cooper wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:09 pm Good to know about the Titegroup CowboyT. I'll try that for some 44 special. I like my wheelgun and lever gun in 44 mag, but most of the rounds I'm going to put down them are going to be specials or light 44 mags. I tried a light load today using Universal 7.2 grains. Terrible accuracy -- holes all over the paper in no discernible pattern even though it was just 7 yards. I'll try 10 more rounds tomorrow with the same load to see if I was just off -- but I haven't been that "off" in a long time. Darn, another reason to load and shoot.
Factory. Missouri Bullet Company ".44 Smasher". It's .430 diameter, 240 grain RNFP, Brinell 18. I know it's a hard bullet, so maybe not obturating well with lower power loads??tonguengroover wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:42 pmCooper, are you using your own boolits or factory made?cooper wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:09 pm Good to know about the Titegroup CowboyT. I'll try that for some 44 special. I like my wheelgun and lever gun in 44 mag, but most of the rounds I'm going to put down them are going to be specials or light 44 mags. I tried a light load today using Universal 7.2 grains. Terrible accuracy -- holes all over the paper in no discernible pattern even though it was just 7 yards. I'll try 10 more rounds tomorrow with the same load to see if I was just off -- but I haven't been that "off" in a long time. Darn, another reason to load and shoot.
Thanks CowboyT. I'm going to order some softer bullets too and and see how that goes.CowboyT wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:41 pm Yeah, the softer, the better. The hardest that I ever cast these days is BHN 12-13, and that includes .357M, .44M, and ".45 Colt Magnum". The mention of bullet size to your gun's chamber throat is good advice. Also, bullet obturation, along with proper bullet lube, helps not only with precision, but also with avoiding lead-fouling.
Case in point: when I was developing my .45 Colt Magnum load, I started with BHN 15-16, as according to Lee's Modern Reloading, that BHN was good for those pressures. Turns out that's not the case for handgun cartridges. I had patterns, not groups, starting with 20.5 grains of 2400 (about 28,000 PSI or so, per the books), and I'm a better shot than that. Also, lead-fouling was significant. I had to pound a bullet down the barrel to get it out, it was that bad. This proved to be the case until I got to 21.5 grains of 2400, when things tightened up massively. Lead-fouling almost entirely went bye-bye. So, I tried 22.0gr of 2400, and that tightened the groups up even a bit more, and lead-fouling went to zero. So, the lesson there was that about 30,000 PSI (the 21.5gr 2400 level) is where BHN 15-16 starts to obturate properly, and full obturation half a grain beyond that (the 22.0gr). Using interpolation, I determined the pressure of my 22.0gr load to be about 32,000 to 34,000 PSI, about the same as full-house .44 Magnum.
Based on these results, I generally would use the harder bullets, like 18 BHN, only for the .454 Casull-range loads.
However, not everyone is in a position to cast their own as I do. So, if you have 18 BHN, then I would recommend two things.
1.) Ensure that these bullets are at or very close to the max that will easily physically chamber in your gun when the round is assembled. Make a few dummy rounds to check this out. The closer you are to the width of the chamber's throat, the better.
2.) Hit those hard bullets with a decent coat of Liquid Alox/Xlox, enough to where they're somewhat ambered. See, that hard-wax bullet "lube" that the factory puts on there isn't worth a doggone thing. It's way too hard for handgun applications to be of any significant help. They use that useless hard wax for the same reason they cast those bullets at BHN 18 (shipping issues). Liquid Alox/Xlox, which I now use for everything cast, is much, much better (read: softer) for virtually all handgun applications. I use it in .38/357, .44 Spl/Mag, .45 Colt, and .45 ACP, with very good results. It will help some with those hard-cast bullets, too.
A couple of links you might be interested in.cooper wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:32 pmThanks CowboyT. I'm going to order some softer bullets too and and see how that goes.CowboyT wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:41 pm Yeah, the softer, the better. The hardest that I ever cast these days is BHN 12-13, and that includes .357M, .44M, and ".45 Colt Magnum". The mention of bullet size to your gun's chamber throat is good advice. Also, bullet obturation, along with proper bullet lube, helps not only with precision, but also with avoiding lead-fouling.
Case in point: when I was developing my .45 Colt Magnum load, I started with BHN 15-16, as according to Lee's Modern Reloading, that BHN was good for those pressures. Turns out that's not the case for handgun cartridges. I had patterns, not groups, starting with 20.5 grains of 2400 (about 28,000 PSI or so, per the books), and I'm a better shot than that. Also, lead-fouling was significant. I had to pound a bullet down the barrel to get it out, it was that bad. This proved to be the case until I got to 21.5 grains of 2400, when things tightened up massively. Lead-fouling almost entirely went bye-bye. So, I tried 22.0gr of 2400, and that tightened the groups up even a bit more, and lead-fouling went to zero. So, the lesson there was that about 30,000 PSI (the 21.5gr 2400 level) is where BHN 15-16 starts to obturate properly, and full obturation half a grain beyond that (the 22.0gr). Using interpolation, I determined the pressure of my 22.0gr load to be about 32,000 to 34,000 PSI, about the same as full-house .44 Magnum.
Based on these results, I generally would use the harder bullets, like 18 BHN, only for the .454 Casull-range loads.
However, not everyone is in a position to cast their own as I do. So, if you have 18 BHN, then I would recommend two things.
1.) Ensure that these bullets are at or very close to the max that will easily physically chamber in your gun when the round is assembled. Make a few dummy rounds to check this out. The closer you are to the width of the chamber's throat, the better.
2.) Hit those hard bullets with a decent coat of Liquid Alox/Xlox, enough to where they're somewhat ambered. See, that hard-wax bullet "lube" that the factory puts on there isn't worth a doggone thing. It's way too hard for handgun applications to be of any significant help. They use that useless hard wax for the same reason they cast those bullets at BHN 18 (shipping issues). Liquid Alox/Xlox, which I now use for everything cast, is much, much better (read: softer) for virtually all handgun applications. I use it in .38/357, .44 Spl/Mag, .45 Colt, and .45 ACP, with very good results. It will help some with those hard-cast bullets, too.
This is great. Thanks, papajim.papajim2jordan wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:07 amA couple of links you might be interested in.cooper wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:32 pmThanks CowboyT. I'm going to order some softer bullets too and and see how that goes.CowboyT wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:41 pm Yeah, the softer, the better. The hardest that I ever cast these days is BHN 12-13, and that includes .357M, .44M, and ".45 Colt Magnum". The mention of bullet size to your gun's chamber throat is good advice. Also, bullet obturation, along with proper bullet lube, helps not only with precision, but also with avoiding lead-fouling.
Case in point: when I was developing my .45 Colt Magnum load, I started with BHN 15-16, as according to Lee's Modern Reloading, that BHN was good for those pressures. Turns out that's not the case for handgun cartridges. I had patterns, not groups, starting with 20.5 grains of 2400 (about 28,000 PSI or so, per the books), and I'm a better shot than that. Also, lead-fouling was significant. I had to pound a bullet down the barrel to get it out, it was that bad. This proved to be the case until I got to 21.5 grains of 2400, when things tightened up massively. Lead-fouling almost entirely went bye-bye. So, I tried 22.0gr of 2400, and that tightened the groups up even a bit more, and lead-fouling went to zero. So, the lesson there was that about 30,000 PSI (the 21.5gr 2400 level) is where BHN 15-16 starts to obturate properly, and full obturation half a grain beyond that (the 22.0gr). Using interpolation, I determined the pressure of my 22.0gr load to be about 32,000 to 34,000 PSI, about the same as full-house .44 Magnum.
Based on these results, I generally would use the harder bullets, like 18 BHN, only for the .454 Casull-range loads.
However, not everyone is in a position to cast their own as I do. So, if you have 18 BHN, then I would recommend two things.
1.) Ensure that these bullets are at or very close to the max that will easily physically chamber in your gun when the round is assembled. Make a few dummy rounds to check this out. The closer you are to the width of the chamber's throat, the better.
2.) Hit those hard bullets with a decent coat of Liquid Alox/Xlox, enough to where they're somewhat ambered. See, that hard-wax bullet "lube" that the factory puts on there isn't worth a doggone thing. It's way too hard for handgun applications to be of any significant help. They use that useless hard wax for the same reason they cast those bullets at BHN 18 (shipping issues). Liquid Alox/Xlox, which I now use for everything cast, is much, much better (read: softer) for virtually all handgun applications. I use it in .38/357, .44 Spl/Mag, .45 Colt, and .45 ACP, with very good results. It will help some with those hard-cast bullets, too.
https://cowboybullets.com/
https://www.buffaloarms.com/reloading-s ... llets.html
https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/
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