I too agree. SCOTUS rejected appeals of the IL law because pro gun organizations were trying to bypass the US court of appeals, asking SCOTUS to intervene. Just like Jack Smith trying to bypass the DC Circuit in the Trump case, SCOTUS doesn't like it. News writers usually fuck up reports about guns and court cases.

It may be painful to acknowledge the existence of the Ninth and Tenth Amendments which support the power of States in a Federal system and allow them to try and pull shit off, subject to SCOTUS review.

CDFingers

Hopefully, when all this is finished being litigated in the lower courts, SCOTUS will have a look see and declare registration and the banning of commonly used firearms to be unconstitutional. But Illinois State Police giving up/destroying the registration records in such an event I cannot be convinced of.

VooDoo

It's being reported that less than 1.5% of Illinois gun owners complied with the registration component. That seems more of less in line with other states that have required registration of those very scary assault weapons.

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:47 am It's being reported that less than 1.5% of Illinois gun owners complied with the registration component. That seems more of less in line with other states that have required registration of those very scary assault weapons.

I wonder how the anti gun zealots will respond, ask for police to go to ranges to check for registered guns, door to door searches, traffic car checks or some other stop and frisk tactic. Forcing registration of items that are integral to exercising a constitutional right just doesn’t seem right. Perhaps there should be a license registration requirement for communication devises computers, phones and such. That would be consistent. And no, I don’t support such an idea.

sikacz wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:17 am

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:47 am It's being reported that less than 1.5% of Illinois gun owners complied with the registration component. That seems more of less in line with other states that have required registration of those very scary assault weapons.

I wonder how the anti gun zealots will respond, ask for police to go to ranges to check for registered guns, door to door searches, traffic car checks or some other stop and frisk tactic. Forcing registration of items that are integral to exercising a constitutional right just doesn’t seem right. Perhaps there should be a license registration requirement for communication devises computers, phones and such. That would be consistent. And no, I don’t support such an idea.

It seems that a lot of these laws are basically unenforceable at a practical level and are used as add on charges if someone gets sideways with the law in some other way.

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:54 am

sikacz wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:17 am

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:47 am It's being reported that less than 1.5% of Illinois gun owners complied with the registration component. That seems more of less in line with other states that have required registration of those very scary assault weapons.

I wonder how the anti gun zealots will respond, ask for police to go to ranges to check for registered guns, door to door searches, traffic car checks or some other stop and frisk tactic. Forcing registration of items that are integral to exercising a constitutional right just doesn’t seem right. Perhaps there should be a license registration requirement for communication devises computers, phones and such. That would be consistent. And no, I don’t support such an idea.

It seems that a lot of these laws are basically unenforceable at a practical level and are used as add on charges if someone gets sideways with the law in some other way.

Basically FU laws.

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:54 am

sikacz wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:17 am

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:47 am It's being reported that less than 1.5% of Illinois gun owners complied with the registration component. That seems more of less in line with other states that have required registration of those very scary assault weapons.

I wonder how the anti gun zealots will respond, ask for police to go to ranges to check for registered guns, door to door searches, traffic car checks or some other stop and frisk tactic. Forcing registration of items that are integral to exercising a constitutional right just doesn’t seem right. Perhaps there should be a license registration requirement for communication devises computers, phones and such. That would be consistent. And no, I don’t support such an idea.

It seems that a lot of these laws are basically unenforceable at a practical level and are used as add on charges if someone gets sideways with the law in some other way.

I suspect some highly irritating folks (who have defied the Governor) will be singled out to be "checked out" as apparently, privately, Governor Pritzker is not amused in the least that he is being defied. The other issue is that there has never been a formal letter sent to FOID Holders in the State that PICA is in effect. Literally tens of thousands of "casual" gun owners and FOID Holders have no idea that the tricked out semi auto ruger 10/22 with a threaded bull barrel and a compensator is now an "Assault weapon" and the next time they show up at the range with it there may be an issue.

VooDoo

VodoundaVinci wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 1:33 pm

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:54 am

sikacz wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:17 am

featureless wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:47 am It's being reported that less than 1.5% of Illinois gun owners complied with the registration component. That seems more of less in line with other states that have required registration of those very scary assault weapons.

I wonder how the anti gun zealots will respond, ask for police to go to ranges to check for registered guns, door to door searches, traffic car checks or some other stop and frisk tactic. Forcing registration of items that are integral to exercising a constitutional right just doesn’t seem right. Perhaps there should be a license registration requirement for communication devises computers, phones and such. That would be consistent. And no, I don’t support such an idea.

It seems that a lot of these laws are basically unenforceable at a practical level and are used as add on charges if someone gets sideways with the law in some other way.

I suspect some highly irritating folks (who have defied the Governor) will be singled out to be "checked out" as apparently, privately, Governor Pritzker is not amused in the least that he is being defied. The other issue is that there has never been a formal letter sent to FOID Holders in the State that PICA is in effect. Literally tens of thousands of "casual" gun owners and FOID Holders have no idea that the tricked out semi auto ruger 10/22 with a threaded bull barrel and a compensator is now an "Assault weapon" and the next time they show up at the range with it there may be an issue.

VooDoo

It's a real problem when the state doesn't bother to notify. If'n they change a law regarding a constitutional issue that was legal yesterday and a potential felony today, they'd beat provide notice. But they don't.

So, this law also pertains to rimfire ?



Sent from my U319AA using Tapatalk

rascally wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:28 am So, this law also pertains to rimfire ?

Sent from my U319AA using Tapatalk

Yes. Any semi auto firearm which can accept a magazine and has one or more of the "Assault Weapon Attachments is banned from sale and existing firearms must be registered.

Assault Weapon Attachments include, but are not limited to:

a pistol grip or thumbhole stock;
any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
a folding, telescoping, thumbhole, or detachable stock, or a stock that is otherwise foldable or adjustable in a manner that operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability of, the weapon;
a flash suppressor;
a grenade launcher;
a shroud attached to the barrel or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel;
a threaded barrel; and
a buffer tube, arm brace, or other part that protrudes horizontally behind the pistol grip and is designed or redesigned to allow or facilitate a firearm to be fired from the shoulder.

https://isp.illinois.gov/StaticFiles/do ... 0Guide.pdf

VooDoo

I suppose that the full length Mannlicher stock on my 10/22 would count towards the shroud exclusion. Then again, I'm not sure that any rifle stock wouldn't.

Is there a constructive intent provision? Replacing stocks is easy enough, but there's plenty of competition rifles with thumbholes out there.

"any semi-auto firearm"...

So a Ruger 10-22, a Marlin 60, a Remington Nylon 66, and ALL semi-auto pistols are now "assault weapons", since a pistol by definition has a pistol grip and takes a magazine.

Also some semi-auto "tactical" shotguns.

Fascinating...

At least an AR-15 or AR-10 is easy enough to fix, just remove the gas tube and it's a straight pull bolt action (albeit a clumsy one).



Sent from my U319AA using Tapatalk

Reading the pdf Vodou posted, there are different definitions for rifles vs. shotguns vs. pistols. There are exclusions for tube fed .22 rimfire rifles, but fixed-magazine pistols can be assault weapons, as can any revolver fed shotgun - Governors and Judges, for instance. Shrouds are not well defined or described.

Constructive intent seems to apply - they use the explicit examples of a base 10/22 vs. one with a folding stock, pistol grip, and BX-25 magazine, and merely possessing the parts is enough.

The FAQ page on the ISP WEbsite explains some of this - muddies the water on other issues.

https://isp.illinois.gov/Home/AssaultWeapons

The Illinois joint committee on administrative rules has not yet adopted permanent rules so at present the emergency rules being put into place by the ISP are all we have to go on. It's a mess for everyone. The Act specifically states that disclosure statements (registration) must be completed by Jan.1 2024 but the State Police are telling people they will not prosecute people who continue to register grandfathered weapons. State Police legal eagles said in the public hearings that enforcement would be up to the county States Attorneys and Sheriffs but most of them have already stated they will not enforce the law.

It's a convoluted mess.

VooDoo

a shroud attached to the barrel or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned

Because dog forbid a person be given some protection from a burn. Okay so remove the shroud and put a Kevlar glove on the non-trigger hand. Or do my hands become assault hands when I put on oven mitts before removing something from the oven?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

My greatest indignation stems from us having to give up our 5th Amendment rights - telling them what you have and that you know it was banned under the threat of criminal charges? It's like being charged with a felony for not answering where you were last night. Not to mention what happens when the list of people who registered and what they possess being hacked and used to dox honest citizens or even posted online for anyone to see.

https://www.databreaches.net/illinois-f ... er-attack/

Which apparently happened with the FOID System already.

VooDoo

https://www.maxonshooters.com/blog/just ... b-registry

Compliance with Illinois PICA Act is dismal by any measure.

VooDoo

The state lawsuit, Caulkin v Pritzker was argued at the IL Supreme Court and by 4-3 they upheld the PICA law. Caulkin appealed to SCOTUS and yesterday SCOTUS denied the petition for cert.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/doc ... 3-510.html

Wonder if Firearms Policy Coalition will petition SCOTUS after losing Harrel v Raoul at the 7th Circuit and an en banc petition was denied.
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/harrel

https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinoi ... 209ca.html

(The Center Square) – Gov. J.B. Pritzker said Wednesday that despite his million-dollar donations to two Illinois Supreme Court justices last year, they are independent and should not have to recuse themselves from two high-profile cases before them in which the governor is a defendant.

Pritzker donated a total of $2 million from two separate accounts to then-Illinois Supreme Court candidates Mary O’Brien and Elizabeth Rochford, $1 million each. Those candidates are now justices on the bench of seven who will hear separate challenges to the state's no-cash bail provision (next week) and to the state's gun ban and registry (in May). Pritzker signed both the SAFE-T Act and the gun ban into law and is a defendant in the lawsuits challenging their constitutionality.

I am skeptical that SCOTUS is gonna save US here in Illinois. They are trying to step back from accusations and scrutiny of higher court Justices and impropriety. The Governor of Illinois has openly purchased 2 Illinois Supreme Court Justices and no one, not even SCOTUS, seems to care. Woe upon US and Amerika.

VooDoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN8yXhdMl7I

VooDoo

VodoundaVinci wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 10:10 am https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinoi ... 209ca.html

(The Center Square) – Gov. J.B. Pritzker said Wednesday that despite his million-dollar donations to two Illinois Supreme Court justices last year, they are independent and should not have to recuse themselves from two high-profile cases before them in which the governor is a defendant.

Pritzker donated a total of $2 million from two separate accounts to then-Illinois Supreme Court candidates Mary O’Brien and Elizabeth Rochford, $1 million each. Those candidates are now justices on the bench of seven who will hear separate challenges to the state's no-cash bail provision (next week) and to the state's gun ban and registry (in May). Pritzker signed both the SAFE-T Act and the gun ban into law and is a defendant in the lawsuits challenging their constitutionality.

I am skeptical that SCOTUS is gonna save US here in Illinois. They are trying to step back from accusations and scrutiny of higher court Justices and impropriety. The Governor of Illinois has openly purchased 2 Illinois Supreme Court Justices and no one, not even SCOTUS, seems to care. Woe upon US and Amerika.

VooDoo

To anti-gunners mostly Democrats, Pritzker did nothing wrong. If that was the Koch organization funding pro 2A candidates Democrats would be all over the media claiming the seats were being bought. In this era right & wrong depends on where someone sits on the political spectrum.

highdesert wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:37 am

VodoundaVinci wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 10:10 am https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinoi ... 209ca.html

(The Center Square) – Gov. J.B. Pritzker said Wednesday that despite his million-dollar donations to two Illinois Supreme Court justices last year, they are independent and should not have to recuse themselves from two high-profile cases before them in which the governor is a defendant.

Pritzker donated a total of $2 million from two separate accounts to then-Illinois Supreme Court candidates Mary O’Brien and Elizabeth Rochford, $1 million each. Those candidates are now justices on the bench of seven who will hear separate challenges to the state's no-cash bail provision (next week) and to the state's gun ban and registry (in May). Pritzker signed both the SAFE-T Act and the gun ban into law and is a defendant in the lawsuits challenging their constitutionality.

I am skeptical that SCOTUS is gonna save US here in Illinois. They are trying to step back from accusations and scrutiny of higher court Justices and impropriety. The Governor of Illinois has openly purchased 2 Illinois Supreme Court Justices and no one, not even SCOTUS, seems to care. Woe upon US and Amerika.

VooDoo

To anti-gunners mostly Democrats, Pritzker did nothing wrong. If that was the Koch organization funding pro 2A candidates Democrats would be all over the media claiming the seats were being bought. In this era right & wrong depends on where someone sits on the political spectrum.

This is an unfortunate reality. If it’s a right you don’t personally need or want people don’t care if it’s restricted or eliminated.

It bothers me that people in Illinois (and elsewhere) will look at blatant bribery and shrug their shoulders. It bothers me even more that *no one* will prosecute this. It's seemingly perfectly acceptable. One more reason I fear that this Republic has jumped the shark. When politicians can buy/bribe Supreme Court Judges there can be no Justice nor fairness, can there?

VooDoo

VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:30 am It bothers me that people in Illinois (and elsewhere) will look at blatant bribery and shrug their shoulders. It bothers me even more that *no one* will prosecute this. It's seemingly perfectly acceptable. One more reason I fear that this Republic has jumped the shark. When politicians can buy/bribe Supreme Court Judges there can be no Justice nor fairness, can there?

VooDoo

Agree, it definitely bothers me that compromised judges can’t be removed.