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ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

1 by DispositionMatrix
This is part of the Enhanced Regulatory Enforcement under Biden.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... ent-policy
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/inv ... 568730002/

We will never know how many were "willful" violators and how many were not.

Per my recollection, a license can be revoked if an FFL typos, say, a NICS check transaction number or a serial number. So even though the background check was run, the ATF can revoke the license, claiming it had not been run. They have reinterpreted the word "willful" to mean any mistake made must have been done willfully.

Here is a story on the increase in revocations from last year:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-r ... r-on-guns/

Re: ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

3 by highdesert
From DMs link.
ATF shop inspection results and revocations have for years been hidden from the public, available only after protracted legal battles tied to the Freedom of Information Act.

In a sweeping investigation published in 2021, USA TODAY and The Trace found the ATF had been largely toothless and conciliatory, bending over backward to go easy on wayward dealers and sometimes allowing guns to flow into the hands of criminals.
The Trace is an American one-sided non-profit journalism outlet devoted to gun control-related news in the United States. It was established in 2015 with seed money from the largest gun control advocacy group Everytown for Gun Safety, which was founded by former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg, and went live on 19 June of that year. The site's editorial director is James Burnett.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trace_(website)

Plus it's an election year and Biden is blocked from getting his AWB, so he tightens up on administrative matters that don't require congressional approval or at least he says they are being tightened up.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

4 by F4FEver
sikacz wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:49 pm Of all the things I would have wanted a president to champion this is not it.
So...FFLs, because they complete the paperwork, are all above board, and don't do things like sell out the back door?

No gun stores in Disneyland , don't think...

Want a gun but can't pass a BGC? Go to a gun show in Wyoming..show the FFL long green, go out in the parking lot, buy the gun...

Re: ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

6 by BKinzey
F4FEver wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:26 am...Want a gun but can't pass a BGC? Go to a gun show in Wyoming..show the FFL long green, go out in the parking lot, buy the gun...
That would be illegal in multiple ways for the FFL and illegal for the buyer, breaking several laws as well. So what is your proposed solution? Since you have specifically disparaged Wyoming gun shows before, do you have information that this is an actual problem? I'd like to see it.

Re: ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

7 by F4FEver
BKinzey wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:51 pm
F4FEver wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:26 am...Want a gun but can't pass a BGC? Go to a gun show in Wyoming..show the FFL long green, go out in the parking lot, buy the gun...
That would be illegal in multiple ways for the FFL and illegal for the buyer, breaking several laws as well. So what is your proposed solution? Since you have specifically disparaged Wyoming gun shows before, do you have information that this is an actual problem? I'd like to see it.
Absolutely correct and not uncommon. My solution? UBC...NO private sales, like that in Colorado. AND if you DO buy from a FFL in Wy, as a CO resident, it MUST be shipped to a CO FFL...Anecdotal only..Yaking with a couple of LGS people about them seeing and hearing about the scores somebody got at the latest Cheyenne gun show. And how no BGC was 'so cool'...Even a guy who owned a LGS(now closed)..I mentioned about the speed of getting the BGC done, buying a Glock 43 at his store..and he began his rant about background checks..ending with...'so much easier to just drive up to Cheyenne'.....

I've said it more than once, Easy access is the issue, NO, not any tool. I personally don't feel like my 2A 'rights' are being tread upon by doing the CBI BGC, which takes about 30 minutes.

Re: ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

8 by BKinzey
F4FEver wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:06 am
BKinzey wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:51 pm
F4FEver wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:26 am...Want a gun but can't pass a BGC? Go to a gun show in Wyoming..show the FFL long green, go out in the parking lot, buy the gun...
That would be illegal in multiple ways for the FFL and illegal for the buyer, breaking several laws as well. So what is your proposed solution? Since you have specifically disparaged Wyoming gun shows before, do you have information that this is an actual problem? I'd like to see it.
Absolutely correct and not uncommon. My solution? UBC...NO private sales, like that in Colorado. AND if you DO buy from a FFL in Wy, as a CO resident, it MUST be shipped to a CO FFL...Anecdotal only..Yaking with a couple of LGS people about them seeing and hearing about the scores somebody got at the latest Cheyenne gun show. And how no BGC was 'so cool'...Even a guy who owned a LGS(now closed)..I mentioned about the speed of getting the BGC done, buying a Glock 43 at his store..and he began his rant about background checks..ending with...'so much easier to just drive up to Cheyenne'.....

I've said it more than once, Easy access is the issue, NO, not any tool. I personally don't feel like my 2A 'rights' are being tread upon by doing the CBI BGC, which takes about 30 minutes.
We have all that you suggest here in CA and yet there isn't the desired result. You suggested that FFLs are making illegal sales in parking lots and that UBCs are a solution. That's not a solution. Your background check may be 30 minutes but California's includes a 10 day wait period. The State has been shown the wait period has little, if any, affect. We still have it. Other states are currently pushing to add waiting periods, so your UBC will most likely include a waiting period, so no, I'm not in favor of that.

Easy access isn't the issue. People's desire to commit violent acts is. Root Cause Mitigation is the solution to that, there is research and real examples that it does work.

Re: ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

9 by F4FEver
BKinzey wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 12:40 pm
F4FEver wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:06 am
BKinzey wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:51 pm
F4FEver wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:26 am...Want a gun but can't pass a BGC? Go to a gun show in Wyoming..show the FFL long green, go out in the parking lot, buy the gun...
That would be illegal in multiple ways for the FFL and illegal for the buyer, breaking several laws as well. So what is your proposed solution? Since you have specifically disparaged Wyoming gun shows before, do you have information that this is an actual problem? I'd like to see it.
Absolutely correct and not uncommon. My solution? UBC...NO private sales, like that in Colorado. AND if you DO buy from a FFL in Wy, as a CO resident, it MUST be shipped to a CO FFL...Anecdotal only..Yaking with a couple of LGS people about them seeing and hearing about the scores somebody got at the latest Cheyenne gun show. And how no BGC was 'so cool'...Even a guy who owned a LGS(now closed)..I mentioned about the speed of getting the BGC done, buying a Glock 43 at his store..and he began his rant about background checks..ending with...'so much easier to just drive up to Cheyenne'.....

I've said it more than once, Easy access is the issue, NO, not any tool. I personally don't feel like my 2A 'rights' are being tread upon by doing the CBI BGC, which takes about 30 minutes.
We have all that you suggest here in CA and yet there isn't the desired result. You suggested that FFLs are making illegal sales in parking lots and that UBCs are a solution. That's not a solution. Your background check may be 30 minutes but California's includes a 10 day wait period. The State has been shown the wait period has little, if any, affect. We still have it. Other states are currently pushing to add waiting periods, so your UBC will most likely include a waiting period, so no, I'm not in favor of that.

Easy access isn't the issue. People's desire to commit violent acts is. Root Cause Mitigation is the solution to that, there is research and real examples that it does work.
No more private sales would be a solution to those who can't pass a BGC and go one state over and buy a gun via a LEGAL private sale. A more comprehensive BGC and RFL would prevent 'some' mass shooters from buying or keeping guns(like the Nashville shooter, like the Boulder shooter, like the Denver shooter, like the......)

Easy access to guns and people's desire to commit violent acts are hand in glove.

Re: ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

10 by BKinzey
No more private sales would be a solution to those who can't pass a BGC and go one state over and buy a gun via a LEGAL private sale.
That wouldn't be legal. As per Federal laws if you purchase a firearm from outside your residency state you need to follow the laws of BOTH states. Private sales are not exempt.

Of course people do do that, through lack of knowledge or defiance of the law.

Again, we have all that covered here in CA and aren't getting the desired result.

Re: ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

11 by sikacz
BKinzey wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:33 pm
No more private sales would be a solution to those who can't pass a BGC and go one state over and buy a gun via a LEGAL private sale.
That wouldn't be legal. As per Federal laws if you purchase a firearm from outside your residency state you need to follow the laws of BOTH states. Private sales are not exempt.

Of course people do do that, through lack of knowledge or defiance of the law.

Again, we have all that covered here in CA and aren't getting the desired result.
And knowingly selling to a felon in a private sale is ILLEGAL.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: ATF posts FFL revocations and dealers it has run out of business

13 by gator68
DispositionMatrix wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:20 pm This is part of the Enhanced Regulatory Enforcement under Biden.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... ent-policy
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/inv ... 568730002/

We will never know how many were "willful" violators and how many were not.

Per my recollection, a license can be revoked if an FFL typos, say, a NICS check transaction number or a serial number. So even though the background check was run, the ATF can revoke the license, claiming it had not been run. They have reinterpreted the word "willful" to mean any mistake made must have been done willfully.

Here is a story on the increase in revocations from last year:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-r ... r-on-guns/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/th ... r-AA19N39n
Maybe take all this with a grain of salt. This guy got an FFL to open a gun shop, didn't follow any of the rules, knowingly facilitated straw purchases etc etc. Claimed it was all to complicated to understand.
He did a deal admitting to everything in exchange for getting all charges dropped if he behaves for 18 months.

I seriously doubt the ATF is revoking licenses left and right for typos. Do you have evidence for your claim about how the ATF interprets "willful"?

There are over 30,000 FFL01s in the ATF public listing. Revoking 90 of them in one year is not overregulation.
Aim past the target.

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