Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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The use of amphetamines by combat personnel is not new. I've read that it remains policy to provide them to USAF pilots on long combat patrols. OTOH, first time I ever heard of fentanyl was when Russian special forces pumped a school full of it to disable a bunch of hostage-takers. Maybe China has hooked them up?

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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Waves of hapless Russians attacking Bakhmut are being mowed down by the defenders, some seemingly just walking to their death. “They’re like zombies. You shoot them and more come constantly,” one Ukrainian soldier told AFP in November. Another Ukrainian soldier speaking to CNN also compared recent attacks to something out of a zombie movie, describing advancing Russians climbing over the bodies of the fallen. Elsewhere videos show Russian soldiers staggering around slowly, failing to move out of the way even when grenades are falling around them, while one Ukrainian describes watching Russians move ‘like molasses’ under bombardment.

What is going on here? There are a number of possible explanations. Many Ukrainians are convinced that the Russian soldiers are drugged. “The orcs have some serious drugs …they have no motivation to fight so they are given some euphoric s***,” says a Ukrainian soldier interviewed by Butusov Plus, describing fighting off four waves of attacks by Russians who did not seem to have any idea what they were doing. “Truly, they are under some kind of influence.” “It looks like it’s very, very likely that they are getting some drugs before attack,” says the soldier talking to CNN.
While the Germans, British and Americans were experimenting with military drugs in WWII, Russia remained committed to the traditional method of fueling troops with vodka. The military gave Russian soldiers 100 ml of vodka (about 3.5 ounces) per day to help fight the cold and give them courage, a practice known as the Commissar’s Ration. The ration was doubled to 200 ml a day in May 1942, but only for units who had proved themselves. Vodka was also issued before attacks. “The foreman walked along the trench with a mug and whoever wanted it poured it for himself. The young men were the first to drink. And then they went straight under bullets and died, “ according to a private called Alexander Grinko. The Russian vodka ration ended some time after WWII, and while there have been plenty of accounts of drunken behavior among Russian troops in Ukraine, including brawls and shootings, there is no direct evidence of a new vodka ration before attacks.
There may be a quite different explanation for some of the zombie-like behavior. Reports of Russian soldiers acting strangely did not start until November when cold weather set in. Many of the videos seem to suggest men suffering from the early stages of hypothermia. This condition is marked by confusion, tiredness, slurred speed and slow movement, exactly the sort of behavior. As the Daily Kos reported in November, while Ukraine has managed to provide its frontline troops fairly well with shelter, heating and sleeping bags, conditions are far worse for Russian troops, some of whom are still shivering in their summer uniforms and relying on sleeping bags sent from home and makeshift tents of plastic sheeting. This applies particularly to the Wagner forces being thrown at Bakhmut in waves. Hence videos like this one which shows Russian troops apparently suffering from hypothermia with sluggish movement and in a confused mental state, unable to react even under direct attack. Some are reportedly freezing to death.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambl ... 78f7ad18c9
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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The British Navy had their rum ration for centuries and you were REQUIRED to drink it. I believe that the lime in "Limeys" was lime juice in the rum to fight off scurvy.
People went through most of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries INCREDIBLY drunk--Remember the Whiskey Rebellion?
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:30 am The British Navy had their rum ration for centuries and you were REQUIRED to drink it. I believe that the lime in "Limeys" was lime juice in the rum to fight off scurvy.
People went through most of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries INCREDIBLY drunk--Remember the Whiskey Rebellion?
In 1740, Admiral Edward Vernon introduced a concoction of watered-down rum mixed with sugar and lime juice. This "grog" was supposed to reduce drunkenness, but many sailors saved their rations for drinking sprees. And yes, this is where we get the term "groggy" to describe that fuzzy-headed feeling after a night of drinking.
https://pussersrum.com/blogs/logbook/ru ... -daily-tot


Another adult beverage with a military past.
During the Thirty Years War, British soldiers fighting on Dutch land discovered Genever, (fun fact alert #2: it was nicknamed ‘Dutch courage’ because the fearless Dutch army all had a Gin ration they’d drink before going into battle) and brought it back to England. It spread like wildfire; by 1720, it’s been estimated that as many as a quarter of households in London were making their own Gin.

Skip forward several decades - past any Tom, Dick or Harry making Gin in their bathtub and flavoring it with turpentine, past the ‘Gin Craze’ which coined the term ‘Mother’s ruin’ in the mid 18th century, and past several major legislative acts to restrict the production of poor quality Gin - to 1857, when the British took governance of India, and Brits headed for warmer climes in their droves. They used bitter-tasting quinine, extracted from cinchona bark, to ward off malaria. It was made into a tonic by dissolving it in water and adding sugar to sweeten it. Once the nation’s favorite Spirit was added, the Brits were left with a drink that tasted pretty darn good and stopped them from getting ill. Win, win!

Tonic back then was more heavily infused with quinine than it is today (fun fact #3: you’d need to drink 67 liters of Gin and Tonic a day in order to have a dose of quinine strong enough to prevent malaria), so don’t go skipping your malaria pills on your next trip, no matter how many G&Ts you drink.
https://flaviar.com/blog/gin-tonic-history/#


To wooglin's post, that's why an essential of every monastery was as brewery, the water was terrible.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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Quinine has one very unpleasant side effect that I know of--it causes deafness. My brother was "addicted" to Tonic Water, drinking at least 2 quarts a day (without the gin) and began to lose his hearing in his late 20's. When his doctor question him and heard about the Tonic Water, he ordered him to immediately stop consuming it. But now, in his early 70's he's been wearing hearing aids for at least a decade, if not longer. While I and our other brother have some mild hearing loss, me in my late 60's, the other in his mid 70's, neither of us has anything like our middle brother's near total deafness without his aids.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:28 am Quinine has one very unpleasant side effect that I know of--it causes deafness. My brother was "addicted" to Tonic Water, drinking at least 2 quarts a day (without the gin) and began to lose his hearing in his late 20's. When his doctor question him and heard about the Tonic Water, he ordered him to immediately stop consuming it. But now, in his early 70's he's been wearing hearing aids for at least a decade, if not longer. While I and our other brother have some mild hearing loss, me in my late 60's, the other in his mid 70's, neither of us has anything like our middle brother's near total deafness without his aids.
We were told as Naval Aviators to take it easy on Gin and tonics when we went ashore..Quinine screws with your middle ear. So we just stuck to Gin, and other stuff..not even ice, cuz ya know, fish shit in that water...

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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F4FEver wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:40 am
YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:28 am Quinine has one very unpleasant side effect that I know of--it causes deafness. My brother was "addicted" to Tonic Water, drinking at least 2 quarts a day (without the gin) and began to lose his hearing in his late 20's. When his doctor question him and heard about the Tonic Water, he ordered him to immediately stop consuming it. But now, in his early 70's he's been wearing hearing aids for at least a decade, if not longer. While I and our other brother have some mild hearing loss, me in my late 60's, the other in his mid 70's, neither of us has anything like our middle brother's near total deafness without his aids.
We were told as Naval Aviators to take it easy on Gin and tonics when we went ashore..Quinine screws with your middle ear. So we just stuck to Gin, and other stuff..not even ice, cuz ya know, fish shit in that water...
Or, as W.C. Fields put it: "fish make love in it!"

Yeah it was the softening of the bones in my brother's middle ear.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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There's little doubt that Vlad's military is being embarrassed in this war. Gold for NATO and US defense analysts. This conflict shows putin's military isn't the great big, scary russian bear but is inept led by corrupt and incompetent leaders. Poor to no...communication, supply. Poor, outdated equipment. Troops motivated only by a corrupt leader behind them pointing a gun at them. The performance of the russian military in Ukraine will be the stuff of study in military schools worldwide for decades.

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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Whether freezing to death or propped up by drugs, this depiction of the Russian Army conscripts is actually heartbreaking. Those of us who have watched the new brutal Netflix film portrayal of the novel we all read in HS, “All Quiet on the Western Front,” can more clearly understand the horrors of warfare going on in Ukraine right now. There is nothing Ukrainian soldiers can do but defend their homeland. But the horror of mowing down men unable to advance yet unable to retreat (for fear of being shot by their own command) must be unimaginable.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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Bisbee wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:08 pm Whether freezing to death or propped up by drugs, this depiction of the Russian Army conscripts is actually heartbreaking. Those of us who have watched the new brutal Netflix film portrayal of the novel we all read in HS, “All Quiet on the Western Front,” can more clearly understand the horrors of warfare going on in Ukraine right now. There is nothing Ukrainian soldiers can do but defend their homeland. But the horror of mowing down men unable to advance yet unable to retreat (for fear of being shot by their own command) must be unimaginable.
I agree Bisbee, a tragic waste of young human life. Yes the Ukrainians are just protecting themselves. Nothing new though in Russia, the Czars had their brutal commanders, Lenin and Stalin had their political commissars attached to each unit and now Putin. Russia needs a revolution but not another slick one like the communists played on them, that just re-enslaved them for decades.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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highdesert wrote:
Bisbee wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:08 pm Whether freezing to death or propped up by drugs, this depiction of the Russian Army conscripts is actually heartbreaking. Those of us who have watched the new brutal Netflix film portrayal of the novel we all read in HS, “All Quiet on the Western Front,” can more clearly understand the horrors of warfare going on in Ukraine right now. There is nothing Ukrainian soldiers can do but defend their homeland. But the horror of mowing down men unable to advance yet unable to retreat (for fear of being shot by their own command) must be unimaginable.
I agree Bisbee, a tragic waste of young human life. Yes the Ukrainians are just protecting themselves. Nothing new though in Russia, the Czars had their brutal commanders, Lenin and Stalin had their political commissars attached to each unit and now Putin. Russia needs a revolution but not another slick one like the communists played on them, that just re-enslaved them for decades.
If you read Dostoyevsky and Solzhenitsyn; Russia has pretty much always been this way, and wil always be this way. There’s a certain fatalism that lends its self to cynicism & authoritarian governments.

Best we can do is arm the Ukrainians to the hilt and get it over with as soon as possible. Putin doesn’t care one iota about Russian soldiers he sends in the meat grinder.

Your point about the all quiet in the western front is well taken; too. When I watched it I immediately thought of the trench warfare in the current conflict. An absolute profane waste of human life for one man’s folly.


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Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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papajim2jordan wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:43 am China has a deficit of women, Russia will soon be out of men. Authoritarian policy making at it’s finest. Now we know the true reason for the visit.
Yup, good point.

This is a hangover of the country's one child policy which was introduced in 1979 to slow population growth.

The culture favors boys over girls, the policy led to forced abortions and a reported glut of new born boys from the 1980s onwards.

But they can have a huge army. When will China start feeling cornered by NATO like Russia when Russia falls and what will they do? China can send millions to the trenches and not feel it.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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tonguengroover wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:27 am
papajim2jordan wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:43 am China has a deficit of women, Russia will soon be out of men. Authoritarian policy making at it’s finest. Now we know the true reason for the visit.
Yup, good point.

This is a hangover of the country's one child policy which was introduced in 1979 to slow population growth.

The culture favors boys over girls, the policy led to forced abortions and a reported glut of new born boys from the 1980s onwards.

But they can have a huge army. When will China start feeling cornered by NATO like Russia when Russia falls and what will they do? China can send millions to the trenches and not feel it.
Unlikely..It's not like Korea where the 'UN' forces threatened China's homeland across the Yalu River. What's surprising is the lack of intel by China to Russia in Ukraine..Why not? Because China doesn't have the technology. Just like, why don't the russian soldiers shoot at the drones that are dropping grenades on them? Because they have no ammunition.
Last edited by F4FEver on Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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So for many families in China who had a son as their only child, and there being a lack of women for wives, what did many families do? KIDNAP girls to be wives their sons, no different than ISIS and similar groups did. You'd think they'd pay enormous reverse dowries to get their sons wives, and I suppose some did, yet again turning women into commodities.

To many Russians, this war is NOT creating significant hardships until their sons come home in boxes. So they support Putin.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:39 am So for many families in China who had a son as their only child, and there being a lack of women for wives, what did many families do? KIDNAP girls to be wives their sons, no different than ISIS and similar groups did. You'd think they'd pay enormous reverse dowries to get their sons wives, and I suppose some did, yet again turning women into commodities.

To many Russians, this war is NOT creating significant hardships until their sons come home in boxes. So they support Putin.
From reports Putin's focused his conscription gangs on remote villages, among minorities, drug addicts and convicts. He'd have problems if he conscripted sons of the wealthy in Moscow, St Petersburg and other major Russian cities.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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highdesert wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:51 am
From reports Putin's focused his conscription gangs on remote villages, among minorities, drug addicts and convicts. He'd have problems if he conscripted sons of the wealthy in Moscow, St Petersburg and other major Russian cities.
Those wealthy sons all have bone spurs in their feet that makes them unfit for military service.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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TrueTexan wrote:
highdesert wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:51 am
From reports Putin's focused his conscription gangs on remote villages, among minorities, drug addicts and convicts. He'd have problems if he conscripted sons of the wealthy in Moscow, St Petersburg and other major Russian cities.
Those wealthy sons all have bone spurs in their feet that makes them unfit for military service.
Cue CCR’s “Fortunate Son”


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Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:15 am Hundreds of thousands have fled Russia to avoid conscription and death. Even the Wagner Group has lost thousands of men.
Yup they flew to Europe especially countries in the Schengen area where they could easily cross into other EU countries. Many went out through Finland which is EU, remember the two Russians who took a boat to Alaska, wonder what happened to them.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Are Russian soldiers on drugs?

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When I spent a semester in Belgium, there were only 9 members in the 3 communities that became the EU, the EEC, ECSC, and EurAtom. Members were Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, and Luxembourg, the original 6, plus Denmark, Ireland, and the UK.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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