Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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President Joe Biden will sign an executive order aimed at expanding background checks during his visit Tuesday to Monterey Park, Calif., where 11 people were gunned down in January. The White House said the move will get “the U.S. as close to universal background checks as possible” without legislation, as Congress remains gridlocked on the issue. Gun safety advocates have pushed administration officials on this front for months.

The executive action will direct Attorney General Merrick Garland to address a background check loophole by clarifying the definition of “engaged in the business” of selling firearms, according to a senior administration official who briefed reporters late Monday ahead of the announcement. The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act passed last summer updated federal law, requiring anyone who sells guns for profit to be licensed and conduct background checks on buyers. By clarifying who qualifies as a gun dealer, the federal law will require a greater number of sellers to conduct background checks on prospective buyers.
The president’s executive order also calls for his administration to speed up the implementation of the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. Within 60 days, every agency involved in the legislation’s rollout will be required to send Biden a report outlining progress and additional steps needed to push the law forward.

The executive order also directs members of Biden’s Cabinet to focus on raising public awareness of red flag laws and safe storage of guns and to address the loss and theft of firearms, the official said. The president will also take additional steps aimed at holding gun manufacturers accountable, including by encouraging the Federal Trade Commission to analyze and report how gun manufacturers market firearms to minors.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/1 ... s-00086895

This appeases the anti-gunners and Democrats yelling for gun control. Little doubt that this will eventually end up in federal court someplace. It's an election year and I expect he'll be doing other gun control things. The stage at the Boys & Girls Club will probably be packed with every Democratic politician within 50 miles.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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I have no objection to stronger, more consistent and logical background checks. Nor do I object to requiring safe gun storage.
i do not know how advertising can be controlled, but it may be possible. All kinds of things have warnings, and even limit. some advertising (for cigarettes, our most dangerous, addictive, and deadly drug). Of course, if the industry sets up its own standards and follows them, it could make THAT issue moot.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:49 am I have no objection to stronger, more consistent and logical background checks. Nor do I object to requiring safe gun storage.
i do not know how advertising can be controlled, but it may be possible. All kinds of things have warnings, and even limit. some advertising (for cigarettes, our most dangerous, addictive, and deadly drug). Of course, if the industry sets up its own standards and follows them, it could make THAT issue moot.
I don't really, either. I don't think it solves much, but it's a "do something" I don't oppose. I support safe storage vigorously, but don't see how laws requiring such are really enforceable until after something bad happens, so they don't really prevent, just punish.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:49 am I have no objection to stronger, more consistent and logical background checks. Nor do I object to requiring safe gun storage.
i do not know how advertising can be controlled, but it may be possible. All kinds of things have warnings, and even limit. some advertising (for cigarettes, our most dangerous, addictive, and deadly drug). Of course, if the industry sets up its own standards and follows them, it could make THAT issue moot.
Agree. Way to many guns legally go into the hands of dangerous, mentally deranged, violent, untrained people.
As for advertising..think that's eyewash but it worked with alcohol and cigarettes.
And I'll get pillored here but a well designed and well implemented red flag law is not a bad idea. And before 'some' yell 'due process'...these laws are not unlike the process now in effect with regard to arrests, seaches(I smell marijuana, step outta the car) or restraining orders.

Also interesting that just about every segment of manufacturing ANYTHING has rules and regulations with regards to making that 'widget' safe...All except for gun manufacturers, who are under NO regulations with regards to making a 'safe' product.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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F4FEver wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:03 am
YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:49 am I have no objection to stronger, more consistent and logical background checks. Nor do I object to requiring safe gun storage.
i do not know how advertising can be controlled, but it may be possible. All kinds of things have warnings, and even limit. some advertising (for cigarettes, our most dangerous, addictive, and deadly drug). Of course, if the industry sets up its own standards and follows them, it could make THAT issue moot.
Agree. Way to many guns legally go into the hands of dangerous, mentally deranged, violent, untrained people.
As for advertising..think that's eyewash but it worked with alcohol and cigarettes.
And I'll get pillored here but a well designed and well implemented red flag law is not a bad idea. And before 'some' yell 'due process'...these laws are not unlike the process now in effect with regard to arrests, seaches(I smell marijuana, step outta the car) or restraining orders.

Also interesting that just about every segment of manufacturing ANYTHING has rules and regulations with regards to making that 'widget' safe...All except for gun manufacturers, who are under NO regulations with regards to making a 'safe' product.
I tend to agree on both counts but 'kinda/sorta'.

Tightening and clarifying the definition of a dealer is a great idea and the background check as currently implemented is pretty much a joke. Far too many State, County and local agencies do not send data to a central database and it's damn hard to actually check backgrounds that are just not documented.

Red Flag laws if implemented properly would also get my support but again, the background data needed to make such determination before serious harm is done as well as the willingness at the State, County and local levels to implement such a system simply doesn't exist right now. Unfortunately I have seen little evidence that such oversight might be possible without racial, social, economic and political bias.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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Biden can't get any gun control legislation through Congress unless it's bipartisan, like the Safer Communities Act that passed last year. The federal government and every state and territory has laws prohibiting felons and others from purchasing or being in possession of firearms. In spite of that, most people who commit crimes with a gun are prohibited from having a firearm.

Garland's AG Opinion on "engaged in the business" is a legal opinion written by his staff, not necessarily an objective opinion. That's the part of the EO I expect will end up in court.

Raising public awareness of red flag laws and encouraging safe storage are both positives. Safety devices like safes, trigger locks and other safety devices should all be fully tax deductible and other incentives should be offered to encourage safe storage.
Last edited by highdesert on Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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I agree with these replies that stronger background checks in and of themselves are not a bad thing, nor about making safe storage a national thing. I also agree with the non surprising fact about doing this in California, one of the few states with very stringent gun laws. If he sticks to UBC and safe storage, he will get independent votes for Democrats. If he wants to ban "assault" weapons, he will lose votes for the party. I think he should emphasize "the person" over the gun. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's the person who decides whether to store the gun safely when the gun is not being fondled, carried, used, or its stash spot clearly can be seen.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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It depends what is meant by safe storage. If it requires expensive safes or mandates particular ways of storage that makes it difficult for low income gun owners to be compliant with the law I will oppose it. Push for education on gun safety and safe storage and I’ll support that. I don’t support feel good type actions in laws or orders. Sorry I’m not going to jump on the biden did good bandwagon. This is a politically motivated move and doesn’t address the underlying reasons for violence in our society.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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CDFingers wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:28 am If he sticks to UBC and safe storage, he will get independent votes for Democrats. If he wants to ban "assault" weapons, he will lose votes for the party. I think he should emphasize "the person" over the gun. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's the person who decides whether to store the gun safely when the gun is not being fondled, carried, used, or its stash spot clearly can be seen.
Yes, if Biden sticks to a centrist position and preaches firearms safety, he'll have a good chance of winning some of the 44% of the population who are Independents, he'll probably get the full 28% of Democrats. After all gun owners no matter what their political leanings always talk about safety, it's a universal. Having this event in CA is to feed his base, he'll be making a lot of trips here to do fund raising before the 2024 election is over.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/part ... ation.aspx
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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CDFingers wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:00 am While trigger locks are six bucks everywhere, they come with most handguns in California. I don't see a problem. Heck, a six pack of decent beer is ten bucks, like a pound of shelled almonds. So, there's that excellent comparison.

CDFingers
As I said it depends on how it’s written. If it’s said that guns not in use or out for a specific purpose like home defense or personal carry should be secured and rendered safe I wouldn’t have a huge problem. If it requires specific equipment then NO. Cable locks are good when given with the gun, but not all people buy new guns or can afford to. It may seem like a trivial thing to those with more means but it’s a big deal to some people. What if an elderly person has had a gun for decades and doesn’t really follow the debates on guns. Something happens and it’s checked that their gun storage didn’t comply. Are you going to make a felon out this person? I was once told by a police officer ignorance of the law is no excuse. I prefer not to have laws and regulations that will get people in trouble for no good reason or simply because they didn’t know or couldn’t afford a lock or insurance or whatever the anti gun dems want. Make no mistake these laws are meant to punish and minimize gun ownership by making it harder to own with a threat of imprisonment or huge fines. That’s going to have no effect on criminals, gang or other. They will never comply. I know y’all mean well, but doing something to make feel good points doesn’t address the issue of violence. It’s just as clear to me biden is not interested in real safety, he simply wants to move us to his old AWB so he can say he was right. This time he won’t accept a sunset provision. If biden wants to disarm the populace then he needs to disband the security apparatus he and other politicians enjoy. Otherwise he has no standing to regulate how the rest of us defend ourselves.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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Here are California's safe storage laws, which I find neither burdensome nor expensive:
Summary of Safe Storage Laws Regarding Children

You may be guilty of a misdemeanor or a felony if you keep a loaded firearm within any premises that are under your custody or control and a child under 18 years of age obtains and uses it, resulting in injury or death, or carries it to a public place, unless you stored the firearm in a locked container or locked the firearm with a locking device to temporarily keep it from functioning.

You Cannot Be Too Careful with Children and Guns

There is no such thing as being too careful with children and guns. Never assume that simply because a toddler may lack finger strength, they can't pull the trigger. A child's thumb has twice the strength of the other fingers. When a toddler's thumb "pushes" against a trigger, invariably the barrel of the gun is pointing directly at the child's face. NEVER leave a firearm lying around the house.

Child safety precautions still apply even if you have no children or if your children have grown to adulthood and left home. A nephew, niece, neighbor's child or a grandchild may come to visit. Practice gun safety at all times.

To prevent injury or death caused by improper storage of guns in a home where children are likely to be present, you should store all guns unloaded, lock them with a firearms safety device and store them in a locked container. Ammunition should be stored in a location separate from the gun.
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/tips

These totally permit the carrying of a loaded gun on one's person in one's own house.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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The only way I would agree that a child visiting and accessing a loaded firearm holds the gun owner to some responsibility is if the child’s parents are held to the same charge. It’s negligence on their part not keeping an eye on their child or allowing them into a dangerous environment. I don’t think those of us who are hermits need to have the same degree of storage as someone with children. Define safe storage, to me it’s either any room that can be secured or any closet. I want explicit language that doesn’t mandate a particular type of storage. Children are likely to never be present in my house so the verbiage sounds like it would exclude me from compliance. Also says “should” which means it’s a recommendation. Typical of a poorly written law that just allows the DA to go after, yet not firm enough to define storage is required. I’ll stick with “likely” as key. If not likely then no storage is required and they can be loaded.

Perhaps a “no children allowed” sign is in order..(sarcasm)…
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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sikacz wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:14 pm The only way I would agree that a child visiting and accessing a loaded firearm holds the gun owner to some responsibility is if the child’s parents are held to the same charge. It’s negligence on their part not keeping an eye on their child or allowing them into a dangerous environment. I don’t think those of us who are hermits need to have the same degree of storage as someone with children. Define safe storage, to me it’s either any room that can be secured or any closet. I want explicit language that doesn’t mandate a particular type of storage. Children are likely to never be present in my house so the verbiage sounds like it would exclude me from compliance. Also says “should” which means it’s a recommendation. Typical of a poorly written law that just allows the DA to go after, yet not firm enough to define storage is required. I’ll stick with “likely” as key. If not likely then no storage is required and they can be loaded.

Perhaps a “no children allowed” sign is in order..(sarcasm)…
I agree, CA legislators just use a shotgun approach to gun laws, it's one size fits all. Guns are evil is their belief and they'd ban them if they could. Guns should be locked up because they're valuable and we don't want them stolen. If children are in a home, that's the primary reason they should be secured by multiple means.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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highdesert wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:41 pm
sikacz wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:14 pm The only way I would agree that a child visiting and accessing a loaded firearm holds the gun owner to some responsibility is if the child’s parents are held to the same charge. It’s negligence on their part not keeping an eye on their child or allowing them into a dangerous environment. I don’t think those of us who are hermits need to have the same degree of storage as someone with children. Define safe storage, to me it’s either any room that can be secured or any closet. I want explicit language that doesn’t mandate a particular type of storage. Children are likely to never be present in my house so the verbiage sounds like it would exclude me from compliance. Also says “should” which means it’s a recommendation. Typical of a poorly written law that just allows the DA to go after, yet not firm enough to define storage is required. I’ll stick with “likely” as key. If not likely then no storage is required and they can be loaded.

Perhaps a “no children allowed” sign is in order..(sarcasm)…
I agree, CA legislators just use a shotgun approach to gun laws, it's one size fits all. Guns are evil is their belief and they'd ban them if they could. Guns should be locked up because they're valuable and we don't want them stolen. If children are in a home, that's the primary reason they should be secured by multiple means.
Agree. One should be encouraged to be responsible and safeguard their investments in the best way they can. If you have children their safety is your responsibility.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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From the Executive Order:
(a) The Attorney General shall develop and implement a plan to:

(i) clarify the definition of who is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms, and thus required to become Federal firearms licensees (FFLs), in order to increase compliance with the Federal background check requirement for firearm sales, including by considering a rulemaking, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law;

(ii) prevent former FFLs whose licenses have been revoked or surrendered from continuing to engage in the business of dealing in firearms;

(iii) publicly release, to the fullest extent permissible by law, inspection reports of FFL dealers cited for violations of the law; and

(iv) support efforts to modernize and make permanent the Undetectable Firearms Act (18 U.S.C. 922(p)).
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... ies-safer/


From the Fact Sheet:
Specifically, the President is directing the Attorney General to move the U.S. as close to universal background checks as possible without additional legislation by clarifying, as appropriate, the statutory definition of who is “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms, as updated by the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act.
Address the loss or theft of firearms during shipping. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) data indicates an over 250% increase in the number of firearms reported as lost or stolen during shipment between federally licensed firearms dealers, from roughly 1,700 in 2018 to more than 6,100 in 2022. President Biden is directing the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Department of Justice, to work to reduce the loss or theft of firearms during shipment and to improve reporting of such losses or thefts, including by engaging with carriers and shippers.
Advance congressional efforts to prevent the proliferation of firearms undetectable by metal detectors. In recent years, we’ve seen the rise of technology that allows guns to be made with polymers and other materials that are increasingly capable of avoiding detection by metal detectors. President Biden is directing the Attorney General to help Congress modernize and make permanent the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988, which is currently set to expire in December 2023.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... ies-safer/

A typical feel good photo op event politicians do to attract the media. Local media here quoted the head of Everytown and other anti-gun groups that were in attendance. Federal cabinet depts. write rules (regulations) that have to stay within federal law. Garland can't approve a new rule that states universal background checks are required if he doesn't have that authority in federal law.
Last edited by highdesert on Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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CDFingers wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:14 pm In my opinion, the California safe storage law encourages folks to be responsible and to safeguard their investments.

CDFingers
Which should be the goal for all reasonable and responsible gun owners - nothing to quibble over.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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Northern wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:10 am I’m curious what set of criteria will actually be used to determine who is a dealer. Along with that, I know that most people I know who are gun enthusiasts buy and sell frequently. So I wonder what the stats are on average buying and selling per year by the hobbyists who have, say, 15 or more firearms in their collection.
AND in many states, private sales do not require any kind of BGC. A favorite way to buy a gun in Coloradofor those who can't pass a BGC--go to a gun show in Wyoming. I think truly 'universal' background checks are NOT a bad thing. A more comprehensive one as well. Right now all you need is a clean record, a driver's license , a CC# and a smile on yer face(smile not required), to buy a gun. I witnesses a straw purchase at Cabela's. The gent 'buying' was obviously buying for his spanish speaking friend. The sales guy even asked if it was a 'straw purchase', the guy said 'no' and off they went to do the BGC.

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sikacz wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:14 pm The only way I would agree that a child visiting and accessing a loaded firearm holds the gun owner to some responsibility is if the child’s parents are held to the same charge. It’s negligence on their part not keeping an eye on their child or allowing them into a dangerous environment. I don’t think those of us who are hermits need to have the same degree of storage as someone with children. Define safe storage, to me it’s either any room that can be secured or any closet. I want explicit language that doesn’t mandate a particular type of storage. Children are likely to never be present in my house so the verbiage sounds like it would exclude me from compliance. Also says “should” which means it’s a recommendation. Typical of a poorly written law that just allows the DA to go after, yet not firm enough to define storage is required. I’ll stick with “likely” as key. If not likely then no storage is required and they can be loaded.

Perhaps a “no children allowed” sign is in order..(sarcasm)…
Really, for say a visiting 16yo? Parents visit a friend with a kid..kid visits a friend and they sneak off to look at Daddy's guns. The visiting kids parents don't even KNOW the guy has any guns.
'Keep an eye on their kids'..maybe for toddlers but not for any kid that's older.

But holyshit, it's common sense, isn't it? I guess not for a LOT of legal gun owners...too many idiots out there who legally own guns.

Re: Biden to sign executive order on guns today in Monterey Park, CA.

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highdesert wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:21 am
Address the loss or theft of firearms during shipping. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) data indicates an over 250% increase in the number of firearms reported as lost or stolen during shipment between federally licensed firearms dealers, from roughly 1,700 in 2018 to more than 6,100 in 2022. President Biden is directing the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Department of Justice, to work to reduce the loss or theft of firearms during shipment and to improve reporting of such losses or thefts, including by engaging with carriers and shippers.
Makes one wonder how many of these thefts are actually cash sales to individuals that can't pass the background checks. Sell the gun, collect the cash, then declare it stolen and also file an insurance claim. Gun shows up at a crime scene. It was declared stolen and the dealer is in the clear.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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TrueTexan wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:57 am
highdesert wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:21 am
Address the loss or theft of firearms during shipping. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) data indicates an over 250% increase in the number of firearms reported as lost or stolen during shipment between federally licensed firearms dealers, from roughly 1,700 in 2018 to more than 6,100 in 2022. President Biden is directing the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Department of Justice, to work to reduce the loss or theft of firearms during shipment and to improve reporting of such losses or thefts, including by engaging with carriers and shippers.
Makes one wonder how many of these thefts are actually cash sales to individuals that can't pass the background checks. Sell the gun, collect the cash, then declare it stolen and also file an insurance claim. Gun shows up at a crime scene. It was declared stolen and the dealer is in the clear.
Yup, selling to those who can't legally own a gun. I'd bet a lot of those end up in the hands of Mexican and Latin American drug cartels. And some to cartel members on this side of the border, involved in drugs, human trafficking and people smuggling. They'll obliterate the serial numbers and maybe change barrels and it's put into circulation. The guns were legal until stolen and they eventually get into the hands of people who can't legally own a gun. And some people still blame legal gun owners for the crime rates.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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