Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Trump said he was indicted on 7 charges, there are 37 charges on the charge sheet.

He probably won't be tried before November 2024 according to this opinion piece by a former federal prosecutor.
If Trump were an ordinary person charged with a run-of-the-mill federal crime, like a bank robbery or a narcotics trafficking offense, it would be unlikely a trial would occur within a year of the arraignment. Criminal cases take a long time to wind their way through the system because defendants have the constitutional right to review discovery and make motions, there are often plea discussions with the government, and trials can be challenging to schedule given courts’ busy trial calendars. But this is no ordinary case. Some things about this case filed by Special Counsel Jack Smith could make a trial easier to schedule. For one thing, Trump is not going to concede anything so it’s unlikely there would be significant plea negotiations. And given the stature of the defendant and his unusually high public profile as a presidential candidate, a judge would almost certainly clear out their calendar to make time for a trial if the former president wanted to put this matter behind him before election season.

But the factors that make this case more difficult to schedule are far more significant. Any national security case comes with additional obstacles that make a speedy trial difficult. Trump’s attorneys will need to obtain clearance to review classified material, a special order will need to be entered to ensure that the material is properly protected, and there are likely going to be fights over classified material provided by the government in discovery. There are many tools that the government typically uses in national security cases to protect classified material even though the defendant has a right to examine the evidence against him and there is a right to a public trial. Given that Smith has included charges involving 31 separate classified documents — an aggressive approach — he will likely make use of some of those tools.

And the discovery in this case will almost certainly involve classified material beyond the documents charged in the indictment. Under the Classified Information Procedures Act, Trump would be entitled to an interlocutory appeal (made in the middle of case rather than after the verdict) if he receives a ruling against him regarding that discovery. An appeal could take many weeks, if not months. The government also has a right to a mid-trial appeal if the judge rules against them. So we should take Smith’s claim that he intends to give Trump a “speedy trial” with a grain of salt. As a practical matter, Smith has laid out a case that is overwhelming and he has not held back. While Trump is entitled to a speedy trial, Smith did not streamline his case and it would take a herculean effort to bring this to trial next year.

Trump said on Thursday that he intends to prove his innocence “very soundly and hopefully very quickly.” If Trump wants a speedy trial, and the judge honors that desire, this case could be tried before election season. But practically speaking there is only a narrow window of time in which this could happen. Election Day is Nov. 5, 2024, but as a practical matter, it’s hard seeing Trump agreeing to a trial during the primary season in the early part of the year or between the Republican Convention in mid-July of 2024 and Election Day if he is in fact the Republican nominee for president. A criminal trial of a major party nominee in the weeks leading up to the election could create the impression that the judicial system is interfering in the electoral process. So any trial would need to occur in the roughly three to four-month window between the end of the primary season and the convention.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... n-00101342

Mariotti points out that Cannon probably has little experience in trying national security cases and might not have the security clearance to review documents, remember that was an issue when she appointed a special master.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Two of trump's lawyers quit. His defense is in disarray. trump's only option is whine on LieSocial, to threaten violence. Some former fed prosecutor on YT read the whole indictment and his only comment, 'trump is done'...Attack Jack Smith, very trumpian of this orange turd but it speaks volumes about trump's 'defense', as in he has none.
If he did, he would STFU, present it in court and seek an acquittal. BUT trump has no defense, and he knows it. So, he'll whine about all else but his obvious(admitted to, publicly) crimes..TRE45ON

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Turd will do the usual delay, delay delay until he is again POTUS making trial moot - I suspect this is game plan A thru Z by this putz. Aileen Cannon will aid and abet this felon. My fear that turd would go for a bench trial if Cannon is presiding judge apparently is misguided - article I read this morning is that all parties would have to agree - judge, prosecution and defense - 2 out of 3 won't get it - must be unanimous and I can't see feds going for no jury.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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Wino wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:28 am Turd will do the usual delay, delay delay until he is again POTUS making trial moot - I suspect this is game plan A thru Z by this putz. Aileen Cannon will aid and abet this felon. My fear that turd would go for a bench trial if Cannon is presiding judge apparently is misguided - article I read this morning is that all parties would have to agree - judge, prosecution and defense - 2 out of 3 won't get it - must be unanimous and I can't see feds going for no jury.
I too don't see the feds agreeing to a bench trial. However Smith's team won't have an easy time with a Florida jury, they could acquit Trump on all or most of the charges. Trump won Florida in two presidential elections, he has a lot of supporters there. Trump will play his victim card and continue telling his followers that they too are victims of the Biden administration. This could all backfire on Democrats and by extension the federal prosecutors in this case.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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highdesert wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:29 am
Wino wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:28 am Turd will do the usual delay, delay delay until he is again POTUS making trial moot - I suspect this is game plan A thru Z by this putz. Aileen Cannon will aid and abet this felon. My fear that turd would go for a bench trial if Cannon is presiding judge apparently is misguided - article I read this morning is that all parties would have to agree - judge, prosecution and defense - 2 out of 3 won't get it - must be unanimous and I can't see feds going for no jury.
I too don't see the feds agreeing to a bench trial. However Smith's team won't have an easy time with a Florida jury, they could acquit Trump on all or most of the charges. Trump won Florida in two presidential elections, he has a lot of supporters there. Trump will play his victim card and continue telling his followers that they too are victims of the Biden administration. This could all backfire on Democrats and by extension the federal prosecutors in this case.
Personally I think the clock has run out on bringing t to justice. Agree on the potential backfire.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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Cannon IS the judge Trump will face on Tuesday. I expect one of 4 things to happen:
1) She has been SO humiliated by her superior circuit court's reversals AND rebukes that she makes an effort to be impartial rather than face more rebukes.
2) She ignores the reversals and rebukes and continues to blatantly favor TOS, even possibly dismissing all the charges with prejudice.
3) She accedes to requests by the DOJ that she recuses herself, voluntarily (Hah! Like THAT's going to happen!)
4) The DOJ claims that security in this district is inadequate and requests that the Federal Court System move the case to Miami, where the Grand Jury sat, and security maintenance is both more common and easier to invoke.

Which do you think will happen?
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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sig230 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:52 am The problem with a jury trial is that it only takes one fanatic to hang the jury which at a minimum would start the whole pre-trial fiasco over yet again.

Time is on Trump's side.
Agree. Every day is a win for him and tilts toward the argument of this being politically motivated.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:59 am Cannon IS the judge Trump will face on Tuesday. I expect one of 4 things to happen:
1) She has been SO humiliated by her superior circuit court's reversals AND rebukes that she makes an effort to be impartial rather than face more rebukes.
2) She ignores the reversals and rebukes and continues to blatantly favor TOS, even possibly dismissing all the charges with prejudice.
3) She accedes to requests by the DOJ that she recuses herself, voluntarily (Hah! Like THAT's going to happen!)
4) The DOJ claims that security in this district is inadequate and requests that the Federal Court System move the case to Miami, where the Grand Jury sat, and security maintenance is both more common and easier to invoke.

Which do you think will happen?
Or maybe Cannon announces that she'll recuse herself because she doesn't have all the security clearances required to examine the evidence and doesn't want to delay the trial while she seeks them. And then maybe the chief judge of the district steps in and appoints an experienced trial judge who has all the security clearances.

It's all just speculation.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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sikacz wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:59 am
sig230 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:52 am The problem with a jury trial is that it only takes one fanatic to hang the jury which at a minimum would start the whole pre-trial fiasco over yet again.

Time is on Trump's side.
Agree. Every day is a win for him and tilts toward the argument of this being politically motivated.
The Voir Dire will be crucial to the Florida trial's success. Yes, one juror can hang a jury, but a responsible judge won't let that juror get away with it--and may make them take days to try to change the asshole.

In Manafort's trial, the CLEARLY biased judge allowed just one juror to hang 10 charges for just a few hours, then declared the jury "Hung" on those charges, and then dismissed them summarily, showing how incompetent and partial he is. I wouldn't be surprised if Cannon isn't the same way.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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I'm keeping it close to my vest until the supposed indictment for Seditious Conspiracy come down the pipe. Then I'll whip out my Party Money and start giggling like a mad man and buying drinks for every Never Trumper I meet.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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I can't contain my abhorrence of the orange POS, so I celebrate each and every paper or indictment cut this POS gets. I expect he will NEVER pay the piper for his multitude of sins to this nation, but I can rejoice in his being hounded. FDT
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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Wino wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:30 pm I can't contain my abhorrence of the orange POS, so I celebrate each and every paper or indictment cut this POS gets. I expect he will NEVER pay the piper for his multitude of sins to this nation, but I can rejoice in his being hounded. FDT
If there was a caring, benevolent activist deity, it would have stricken TOS down BEFORE he was nominated in 2016, with a massive stroke or heart attack. Then again, such a deity wouldn't have created a bug that lives by crawling inside childrens' eyes and making them blind. This is why I am, as my wife puts it, a "Devout Agnostic".
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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Trump Extremists Demand Civil War, Mass Murder After New Indictment

Extreme supporters of Donald Trump have met news of his federal indictment with visions of violence and retribution.

At The Donald, a forum for ultra-MAGA Trump supporters, users demanded public executions and other forms of lynching to avenge the federal prosecution of Trump, for the alleged mishandling of state secrets at Mar a Lago after he was no longer president.

The calls for violence appeared in comment threads, responding to posts on the front page of the forum Thursday night, after news broke of Trump’s latest legal troubles. The most extreme comments were written in response to a fanciful post insisting “the only solution” to DOJ’s efforts to lock up Trump would be to vote him back into the presidency, so Trump could “pardon himself and begin arresting those guilty of insurrection and sedition.”

A user named “Belac186” offered a far deadlier fix: “The only way this country ever becomes anything like the Constitution says this country should be is if thousands of traitorous rats are publicly executed.” Commenter “DogFaceKilla” quickly chimed in to offer supplies: “I got some rope somewhere in the garage…” And “Heavy_Metal_Patriot” added: “Hans says we can borrow the flammenwerfer” — a reference to a battlefield flame thrower used to by German soldiers in World War II.

The proposal for mass killing struck user “BlackPilledMAGA” as going too far: “Doesn’t have to be thousands, just a few dozen would do. Shit would STOP immediately.” But user “Nerdrem1” insisted taking out a few elites wouldn’t make the difference, suggesting the number of dead required was on a genocidal scale: “Millions. The real problem is the people that vote for them, as long as they exist the problem can’t be solved.” A user named “Heavy_Metal_Patriot” concurred: “Correct.”

It might be tempting to dismiss these calls for mass murder as loose talk among angry MAGAdonians. Yet there is dark history here. In a previous iteration, The Donald was used to help plot and promote the violence at the Capitol in 2021, as detailed in the final report of the House Jan. 6 Committee, including by users who “openly discussed surrounding and occupying the U.S. Capitol.”
Full article: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ ... 234768146/

It is scary what these MAGAts are spouting off and what they might do. Since they are referring to Nazi Germany we can remember Röhm purge and Kristallnacht as examples of what can be done by a group bent on claiming power.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:59 am Cannon IS the judge Trump will face on Tuesday. I expect one of 4 things to happen:
1) She has been SO humiliated by her superior circuit court's reversals AND rebukes that she makes an effort to be impartial rather than face more rebukes.
2) She ignores the reversals and rebukes and continues to blatantly favor TOS, even possibly dismissing all the charges with prejudice.
3) She accedes to requests by the DOJ that she recuses herself, voluntarily (Hah! Like THAT's going to happen!)
4) The DOJ claims that security in this district is inadequate and requests that the Federal Court System move the case to Miami, where the Grand Jury sat, and security maintenance is both more common and easier to invoke.

Which do you think will happen?
Number two
Whatever I said above, just pretend I included the obligatory “both sides,” especially if I said something mean about Trump (don’t want to hurt any feelings).

www.schayden.com

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It is, after all, the first federal criminal case against Trump—against whom prior criminal investigations have come up short and other federal and state criminal investigations remain ongoing. And it is, at the same time, the beginning of new era in American political life, one in which federal prosecutions of former presidents are—fortunately or unfortunately, as Trump might say—no longer either unthinkable or an eventuality to be avoided, either by prudential exercises of prosecutorial discretion (as in the case of Bill Clinton) or by preemptive exercises of the presidential power of clemency (as in the case of Richard Nixon).

If this case goes to trial, it will force Americans to think about these questions and others too. It will require the delicate handling of large volumes of classified material before a jury. It will raise questions about the limits of one of the most sacrosanct principles in our legal system, attorney-client privilege. It will push the ability of the criminal justice system to try a man while he seeks the very presidency whose prerogative of control over classified information he is accused of violating. And it will test Americans’ faith that a Justice Department under the control of one party can impartially and fairly try a former president of the other party even as he seeks to regain the presidency.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/united-stat ... tine-nauta
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Greengunner wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:53 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:59 am Cannon IS the judge Trump will face on Tuesday. I expect one of 4 things to happen:
1) She has been SO humiliated by her superior circuit court's reversals AND rebukes that she makes an effort to be impartial rather than face more rebukes.
2) She ignores the reversals and rebukes and continues to blatantly favor TOS, even possibly dismissing all the charges with prejudice.
3) She accedes to requests by the DOJ that she recuses herself, voluntarily (Hah! Like THAT's going to happen!)
4) The DOJ claims that security in this district is inadequate and requests that the Federal Court System move the case to Miami, where the Grand Jury sat, and security maintenance is both more common and easier to invoke.

Which do you think will happen?
Number two
Number 4
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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tonguengroover wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:19 pm
Greengunner wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:53 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:59 am Cannon IS the judge Trump will face on Tuesday. I expect one of 4 things to happen:
1) She has been SO humiliated by her superior circuit court's reversals AND rebukes that she makes an effort to be impartial rather than face more rebukes.
2) She ignores the reversals and rebukes and continues to blatantly favor TOS, even possibly dismissing all the charges with prejudice.
3) She accedes to requests by the DOJ that she recuses herself, voluntarily (Hah! Like THAT's going to happen!)
4) The DOJ claims that security in this district is inadequate and requests that the Federal Court System move the case to Miami, where the Grand Jury sat, and security maintenance is both more common and easier to invoke.

Which do you think will happen?
Number two
Number 4
#4 is the way to remove Cannon without humiliating her (though she deserves humiliation and impeachment) because it's nominally not a criticism of HER.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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sig230 wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 6:30 pm I really have to wonder just how many heads of the various foreign intelligence agencies are meeting on some secure VPN network discussing whether or not they should share intel with the US in the future.
Or who's gonna off trump.
What? You don't think it's been thrown out there?
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

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