Cargill v. Garland
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/fifth ... ee-states/
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
2Well, yeah. It's not a machine gun. It does make for a fine ammo waster.
CDFingers
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
3Cool, wonder when it will go nationwide?
I'd like one just for fun. Accuracy aside, it would make bad guys run for cover if confronted by a group.
I'd like one just for fun. Accuracy aside, it would make bad guys run for cover if confronted by a group.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
4Hopefully this would have some effect on the ATF penchant to change definitions. I doubt it though unless some heads roll.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
5Probably never.tonguengroover wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:56 am Cool, wonder when it will go nationwide?
I'd like one just for fun. Accuracy aside, it would make bad guys run for cover if confronted by a group.
I could not care less about the devices but care a lot about the ATF being able to arbitrarily declare accessories machine guns.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
6+1DispositionMatrix wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:45 amProbably never.tonguengroover wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:56 am Cool, wonder when it will go nationwide?
I'd like one just for fun. Accuracy aside, it would make bad guys run for cover if confronted by a group.
I could not care less about the devices but care a lot about the ATF being able to arbitrarily declare accessories machine guns.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
7The arbitrary and that an agency does it just to satisfy a politically motivated agenda is what I object to as well. Have no desire to own a device that serves no benefit in increasing my accuracy.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
8Machine guns are notoriously inaccurate but they're made for a reason. A very valid reason.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
913-3, that's an en banc ruling by the 5th Circuit. I have no interest in a bump stock, but ATF's classification of a bump stock as a machine gun was troubling. US DOJ could appeal this to SCOTUS or try to rewrite the ATF reg banning bump stocks for other reasons. That will be challenging since they'll have to write the regs within the current federal laws.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
10Ammo makers everywhere rejoice. Nothing like a bump stock to waste a hundred rounds in seventy seconds.
CDFingers
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
11I believe the appeal period has ended and the mandate has issued. DOJ didn't appeal because they'd lose at SCOTUS and then bump stocks would be legal everywhere.highdesert wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:15 pm 13-3, that's an en banc ruling by the 5th Circuit. I have no interest in a bump stock, but ATF's classification of a bump stock as a machine gun was troubling. US DOJ could appeal this to SCOTUS or try to rewrite the ATF reg banning bump stocks for other reasons. That will be challenging since they'll have to write the regs within the current federal laws.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
12featureless wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:17 pmI believe the appeal period has ended and the mandate has issued. DOJ didn't appeal because they'd lose at SCOTUS and then bump stocks would be legal everywhere.highdesert wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:15 pm 13-3, that's an en banc ruling by the 5th Circuit. I have no interest in a bump stock, but ATF's classification of a bump stock as a machine gun was troubling. US DOJ could appeal this to SCOTUS or try to rewrite the ATF reg banning bump stocks for other reasons. That will be challenging since they'll have to write the regs within the current federal laws.
Issuance of the mandate doesn’t mean the entire case is over. DOJ still has at least a month to file a cert petition, and it also can ask for an extension (a request that will always be granted for Uncle Sam).
A case worth watching.Three other circuits have upheld the ATF’s ban. The Fifth Circuit’s order officially creates a Circuit Court split, setting up an almost certain review by the Supreme Court which could go much farther than just bump stocks, possibly limiting the extent to which regulatory agencies and the administrative state are free to “interpret,” alter, and create laws.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
14This is a good summary of legislation, administrative actions and court decisions on bump stocks from the Congressional Research Service.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product ... 0Register.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product ... 0Register.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
15Texas AG is going to petition to SCOTUS. Seems like a bad move on his part, but...
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 9.70.0.pdf
I would like to have it confirmed that ATF lacks the authority to define something that is obviously not a machinegun as a machine gun.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 9.70.0.pdf
I would like to have it confirmed that ATF lacks the authority to define something that is obviously not a machinegun as a machine gun.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
16When it comes to Texas AG Paxton, he is a loser at whatever he does.featureless wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:26 am Texas AG is going to petition to SCOTUS. Seems like a bad move on his part, but...
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 9.70.0.pdf
I would like to have it confirmed that ATF lacks the authority to define something that is obviously not a machinegun as a machine gun.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
17US DOJ is requesting the district court to stay their judgement as they appeal the 5th Circuit's en banc ruling to SCOTUS.
Conflicts between circuit rulings, something SCOTUS likes to settle. Probably a good chance SCOTUS grants cert.. But the Fifth Circuit’s decision in this case conflicts with the results reached in the D.C. Circuit, the Sixth Circuit, and the Tenth Circuit, which each upheld the rule that Cargill challenges here. On or before April 6, 2023, the Government intends to petition the Supreme Court for a writ of certiorari in this case to resolve the disagreement among the courts of appeals. Should the Government ultimately prevail in the Supreme Court, Mr. Cargill would not be entitled to any relief.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
18https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/politics ... index.htmlThe Justice Department on Friday asked the Supreme Court to take up an appeals court ruling that struck down a Trump-era federal ban on so-called bump stocks. The request comes as the high court has repeatedly declined to disturb those rulings that favor the restriction on the device, including not considering a challenge to the federal ban in October. Bump stocks are attachments that essentially allow shooters to fire semiautomatic rifles continuously with one pull of the trigger.
“Like other machineguns, rifles modified with bump stocks are exceedingly dangerous; Congress prohibited the possession of such weapons for good reason.” US Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar wrote in the new filing with the Supreme Court. “The decision below contradicts the best interpretation of the statute, creates an acknowledged circuit conflict, and threatens significant harm to public safety.”
The January appellate court ruling concluded that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, ATF, did not have the authority to classify the devices as machine guns, a classification that had effectively banned them. But in the new filing, the Justice Department argued that prior to the ruling, three other appeals courts had upheld the bump stock regulation. In 2018, the ATF classified the devices as machine guns under the National Firearms Act after then-President Donald Trump ordered a review of bump stocks – which were used in the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting a few months prior.
But the appellate majority in January argued that bump stocks were not covered by the law. “A plain reading of the statutory language, paired with close consideration of the mechanics of a semi-automatic firearm, reveals that a bump stock is excluded from the technical definition of ‘machinegun’ set forth in the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act,” Judge Jennifer Walker Elrod wrote in the majority’s opinion.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
19It'll be interesting to see where SCOTUS lands in this, that's for sure.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
20Hopefully on the original correct definition of a machine gun.featureless wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:12 pm It'll be interesting to see where SCOTUS lands in this, that's for sure.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
21Gotta couple franklins waiting for one.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
22I've no interest in bump stocks, but I very much like consistent definitions. Kinda hard to function without them. Far too akin to alternate facts that are so popular these days.sikacz wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:34 pmHopefully on the original correct definition of a machine gun.featureless wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:12 pm It'll be interesting to see where SCOTUS lands in this, that's for sure.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
23Exactly. Bump stocks are gimmicky, but not a reason to twist definitions.featureless wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:13 pmI've no interest in bump stocks, but I very much like consistent definitions. Kinda hard to function without them. Far too akin to alternate facts that are so popular these days.sikacz wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:34 pmHopefully on the original correct definition of a machine gun.featureless wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:12 pm It'll be interesting to see where SCOTUS lands in this, that's for sure.
Re: 5th Circuit rules bump stock-equipped firearm is not a machinegun
24Its about the trigger resetting actually. The trigger has to reset with a bump stock, not a machine gun. Yes kinda gimmicky but that guy in Las Vegas cut down a lot of people in minutes. Just like a machine guns does. Machine guns are not any more accurate than a bump stock. They're made to throw out bunches of lead.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”