Chest Rig queries

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Somewhere on social media, I responded to a post discussing the increased threats to my friends and neighbors who identify in the LGBTQ+ community.

I wasn't able to relocate that thread easily, and it may have been deleted.

But it got me to thinking about chest rigs.

I have some body armor, and recognize that THAT is a different topic. My current body armor is Level III (maybe IIIA), designed to be worn discreetly. I'm not totally averse to considering more overt armor, but I think of that as a somewhat-separate topic.

Of course, I would have to decide what I want to carry on a chest rig vs. what I want to carry on a belt, and in what likely scenario I would need any of that gear. I've spent some time in protest space (Summer of 2020, Louisville KY, over the LMPD murder of Breonna Taylor) and participated in a couple marches. I experienced some concern over the "security" at more than one march being Boogaloo Bois, and I have very low trust level for them. The idea of walking around during a march wearing a chest rig with six 30-round magazines and no trauma kit seems ludicrous to me, as does the Boog hangers-on wearing drop-leg holsters that flapped and rattled incessantly.

If I'm going to be "out there" with my rig helping my LGBTQ+ friends, I'd rather not look quite that much like "tactical Timmy," but I want to have necessary stuff close at hand.

So, ideas encouraged, and welcome.
Eventually I'll figure out this signature thing and decide what I want to put here.

Re: Chest Rig queries

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My view is wear the covert armor and conceal carry. Don’t make your self a target, or give up the tactical advantage of surprise. I base this on assumption of risk and a process I’ll go into below When I go to marches, etc. I just being a handgun with more capacity and at least 1-3 extra mags, and sometimes a BUG. If I had under clothing armor I would wear that depending on what I thought the threat level was. I would not draw undo attention to myself by looking like a Jan 6th Cosplayer.

Even more than what gear you bring to me is is to do a little beforehand operational risk management (ORM). This is what we briefed in the operational navy before every risky evolution. This is where you rack & stack likely risks and cross matrix them based on likelihood of occurrence and severity. Plan for each contingency and decide what gear or what refresher training you might need.


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Re: Chest Rig queries

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INVICTVS138 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:11 pm My view is wear the covert armor and conceal carry. Don’t make your self a target, or give up the tactical advantage of surprise. I base this on assumption of risk and a process I’ll go into below When I go to marches, etc. I just being a handgun with more capacity and at least 1-3 extra mags, and sometimes a BUG. If I had under clothing armor I would wear that depending on what I thought the threat level was. I would not draw undo attention to myself by looking like a Jan 6th Cosplayer.

Even more than what gear you bring to me is is to do a little beforehand operational risk management (ORM). This is what we briefed in the operational navy before every risky evolution. This is where you rack & stack likely risks and cross matrix them based on likelihood of occurrence and severity. Plan for each contingency and decide what gear or what refresher training you might need.


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As usual, wise words. Thank you.

I like (and tend to prefer) the understated approach. It also saves money (don't have to buy the chest rig and accoutrements). One concern is dealing with opponents' long guns and long ranges, but I also lack the training you had. "Plan for and train for what's likely and within my abilities" seems realistic.

The acronym BUG is unfamiliar to me, though. Big Ugly Gun?
Eventually I'll figure out this signature thing and decide what I want to put here.

Re: Chest Rig queries

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BUG-Back Up Gun
Somewhere on social media, I responded to a post discussing the increased threats to my friends and neighbors who identify in the LGBTQ+ community.
My next door neighbor is a very nice, member of this community. I have been 'gently' suggesting that I 'could' help her with personal protection but it hasn't worked yet. Even tho very blue and tolerant city..and state(colorado) generally..there are still hot spots of hate and intolerance(Colorado Springs) in Colorado.

Re: Chest Rig queries

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BUG = back up gun.

Personally, as demonstrated here, I believe abbreviations and acronyms waste a lot more time (usually in misunderstanding or in explanations) than they ever save. And that's giving them a lot of credit they might not rate-- it's hard to see, except in extreme cases, where they actually save anything.

And they make you look like a poser.

I avoid them.

Re: Chest Rig queries

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BearPaws wrote:
INVICTVS138 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:11 pm My view is wear the covert armor and conceal carry. Don’t make your self a target, or give up the tactical advantage of surprise. I base this on assumption of risk and a process I’ll go into below When I go to marches, etc. I just being a handgun with more capacity and at least 1-3 extra mags, and sometimes a BUG. If I had under clothing armor I would wear that depending on what I thought the threat level was. I would not draw undo attention to myself by looking like a Jan 6th Cosplayer.

Even more than what gear you bring to me is is to do a little beforehand operational risk management (ORM). This is what we briefed in the operational navy before every risky evolution. This is where you rack & stack likely risks and cross matrix them based on likelihood of occurrence and severity. Plan for each contingency and decide what gear or what refresher training you might need.


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As usual, wise words. Thank you.

I like (and tend to prefer) the understated approach. It also saves money (don't have to buy the chest rig and accoutrements). One concern is dealing with opponents' long guns and long ranges, but I also lack the training you had. "Plan for and train for what's likely and within my abilities" seems realistic.

The acronym BUG is unfamiliar to me, though. Big Ugly Gun?

Haha - sorry about that - I’ve worked for DoD my entire adult life and we live by acronyms.

A long gun presents additional risk but it also gives you much greater capability. It also makes you an obvious target. For both negative interactions or at least attention with Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs) and Right wing nut jobs. Personally, once a person has a long gun in an active shooter situation, the best thing to do; is evade and escape. Almost any pistol isn’t a counter for a long gun, even for an extremely well trained shooter. Using a long gun to return fire cannot likely guarantee clear lanes of fire, risking bystanders. If I see someone including a “friendly” (LEO, someone on “our” side) with a long gun; the situation is already escalated enough where I’m getting the hell out of there. I don’t know some randos level of training, etc. I know my level of training, and I cannot successfully engage a long gun armed opponent in a crowd.

I don’t want any extra attention from LE and therefore my options are almost always covert.

I know that the “opposition” uses tactical mall ninja Cosplay and open carry of long guns to intimidate “our” side. I’m not willing to test the sanity of those people; they believe a pile of lies & are angry and stupid.


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Re: Chest Rig queries

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Ylatkit wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:11 pm BUG = back up gun.

Personally, as demonstrated here, I believe abbreviations and acronyms waste a lot more time (usually in misunderstanding or in explanations) than they ever save. And that's giving them a lot of credit they might not rate-- it's hard to see, except in extreme cases, where they actually save anything.

And they make you look like a poser.

I avoid them.
This.

Also, everything Invictus has to say. Unless your goal is to be a bigger target than the people you are there to protect, don't go wearing body armor and toting a long gun. Everything you ever post makes me think paramedic go-bag and covert defense/counter-offense is your jam. You will be too busy rendering aid to make a long gun relevant if you ever have to choose. Your goal is to preserve life more than stop a threat - and that's a GOOD THING. There are professionals there to stop a threat. Whether they're on the clock or not. You bring skills they don't.

Re: Chest Rig queries

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If your going to demonstrations with a long gun and armor, as INVICTVS138 says your a big target. Don't do Dat. Be on outskirts.

A folder or bulpup at best under a jacket.

Backup gun is a daily thing for me. I've got new and a few "forgetmenots" potentual threats.
Constant situational awareness is a thing.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Chest Rig queries

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Several weeks later, thank you to all for the responses.

One thing that had me thinking on this topic was that I was in a nearby store that stocks an assortment of chest rigs and plate carriers. I did a brief dive into the YouTube videos I could find, and saw nothing to make me really want a chest rig beyond the curiosity.
wings wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:08 pm Everything you ever post makes me think paramedic go-bag and covert defense/counter-offense is your jam. You will be too busy rendering aid to make a long gun relevant if you ever have to choose. Your goal is to preserve life more than stop a threat - and that's a GOOD THING. There are professionals there to stop a threat. Whether they're on the clock or not. You bring skills they don't.
Wings, I thank you for this statement. I don't always think of myself in this way, and occasionally (and regrettably) find myself thinking along the lines of the "testosterone-poisoned," which had me thinking more about getting and formatting a chest rig than was in my best interests.

But then I wonder: given my levels of physical flexibility, I wonder about having a chest rig to hold trauma gear instead of bullets, with a prominent cross patch or two, but even that would draw too much attention. When with my wife as she volunteers as a street medic, I've carried her backpack in part so that she could have more rapid access to its contents if the need arose. Happily, most of what we did in that role was hand out water and snacks to keep protesters hydrated and healthy.
Eventually I'll figure out this signature thing and decide what I want to put here.

Re: Chest Rig queries

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It is impossible to tell what’s in someone’s mind by looking into their eyes, or at the expression on their face, unless they paint it all up or cover it up. What someone is holding, however gives a pretty good sense of what they are up to. Uniforms help. Cop with gun, normal. Someone obviously not a cop with a gun...

Kyle Rittenhouse comes to mind.

Makes me ever so glad I live in a quiet, sparsely populated state. Sometimes boring, but at least my neighbors don't try to kill me.

We have achieved critical mass, self sustaining hate, fear, mistrust. Guess we’ll find out at what point it goes super as we keep injecting more and more fissile into the mix. There's no such thing as peaceful coexistance, only winners and mass graves.

Good luck.

Re: Chest Rig queries

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papajim2jordan wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:05 am It is impossible to tell what’s in someone’s mind by looking into their eyes, or at the expression on their face, unless they paint it all up or cover it up. What someone is holding, however gives a pretty good sense of what they are up to. Uniforms help. Cop with gun, normal. Someone obviously not a cop with a gun...

Kyle Rittenhouse comes to mind.

Makes me ever so glad I live in a quiet, sparsely populated state. Sometimes boring, but at least my neighbors don't try to kill me.

We have achieved critical mass, self sustaining hate, fear, mistrust. Guess we’ll find out at what point it goes super as we keep injecting more and more fissile into the mix. There's no such thing as peaceful coexistance, only winners and mass graves.

Good luck.
Pretty pessimistic thought, won’t say you’re wrong though. We are heading into dangerous waters.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Chest Rig queries

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papajim2jordan wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:05 am It is impossible to tell what’s in someone’s mind by looking into their eyes, or at the expression on their face, unless they paint it all up or cover it up. What someone is holding, however gives a pretty good sense of what they are up to. Uniforms help. Cop with gun, normal. Someone obviously not a cop with a gun...

Kyle Rittenhouse comes to mind.
Cops helped Rittenhouse, by the way.

I find it more difficult to trust a cop when it comes to trigger discipline than most people, given the number of people cops kill. I haven't been able to relocate the story (and I'm trying to not go down a conspiracy rabbit hole on that), but I saw a story a few weeks ago claiming that more people are killed by cops in the US than by mass shooters.

I say this cognizant that mass shooters seem to be considering it a competition this year, with news of an adult woman shooting up a school she attended over a dozen years ago. I apologize for how glib I sound--I find it horrifying, to be honest. Too many cops killing people, too many angry people killing people.
Eventually I'll figure out this signature thing and decide what I want to put here.

Re: Chest Rig queries

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Well I don't think it's fair to compare cop and mass shooters.
Cops are out there everyday fighting criminals many who are armed, and convicted armed criminals, gangs and what not.
If course they kill more people but I doubt they do it intentionally are are all giddy about it.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Chest Rig queries

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BearPaws wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:39 pm
papajim2jordan wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:05 am It is impossible to tell what’s in someone’s mind by looking into their eyes, or at the expression on their face, unless they paint it all up or cover it up. What someone is holding, however gives a pretty good sense of what they are up to. Uniforms help. Cop with gun, normal. Someone obviously not a cop with a gun...

Kyle Rittenhouse comes to mind.
Cops helped Rittenhouse, by the way.

I find it more difficult to trust a cop when it comes to trigger discipline than most people, given the number of people cops kill. I haven't been able to relocate the story (and I'm trying to not go down a conspiracy rabbit hole on that), but I saw a story a few weeks ago claiming that more people are killed by cops in the US than by mass shooters.

I say this cognizant that mass shooters seem to be considering it a competition this year, with news of an adult woman shooting up a school she attended over a dozen years ago. I apologize for how glib I sound--I find it horrifying, to be honest. Too many cops killing people, too many angry people killing people.
The police department officially coordinated with Rittenhouse, or cops on the ground just didn't stop him?

Re: Chest Rig queries

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There's an earlier admonition, don’t look like a poser. Putting aside a seemingly general assumption round here that the police are more threat than peacekeeper, they, along with firefighters, paramedics, are tasked to fix things when things get fucked-up. Normally, only one of these professions is armed.

If you had any thought that the plane you were getting ready to board might crash, you'd take another flight. If your Superman, and can “save the day”, have at it. If you have knowledge the flight is in danger, report it. As a self-inserted civilian, you cannot coordinate, communicate with the official government presence, and are at least going to be seen as suspicious, and in the minds of the police, a reasonably possible threat. It would be irresponsible of them not to. It was irresponsible to let Rittenhouse wander about armed.

If gunfire erupts, that’s going to be the story that gets reported, not the message of the protesters. In my decades of driving, I’ve seen twice, someone at the gas pumps smoking. The first time, many years ago, I said something and it was suggested that I do something anatomically impossible. The second, I looked for another gas station.

Two people on a street, one in business attire, carrying a briefcase, the other in tactical gear, (whatever that means), carrying a patrol rifle. Where is your attention drawn?

Protesters carry signs and bullhorns. Mobs carry pitchforks and torches.

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