"States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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The seven states that depend on the Colorado River have missed a Jan. 31 federal deadline for reaching a regionwide consensus on how to sharply reduce water use, raising the likelihood of more friction as the West grapples with how to take less supplies from the shrinking river. In a bid to sway the process after contentious negotiations reached an impasse, six of the seven states gave the federal government a last-minute proposal outlining possible water cuts to help prevent reservoirs from falling to dangerously low levels, presenting a unified front while leaving out California, which uses the single largest share of the river.

The six states — Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming — called their proposal a “consensus-based modeling alternative” that could serve as a framework for negotiating a solution. They submitted the proposal to the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation ahead of an end-of-January deadline that federal water officials had set for the states to present a consensus proposal. A large portion of the proposed water cuts would involve accounting for evaporation and other water losses in the river’s Lower Basin, a change that would translate into large reductions for California, and which the state’s water officials have opposed.
Federal officials told the region’s water managers at a mid-December conference that they will weigh immediate options to protect water levels in depleted reservoirs this year, and that the region must be prepared for the river to permanently yield less water because of climate change. Lake Mead and Lake Powell, the country’s two largest reservoirs, are now about three-fourths empty. The river, which supplies cities, farming areas and tribal nations from Wyoming to the U.S.-Mexico border, has been pushed to a breaking point by chronic overuse, years of drought and global warming.
In October, the Biden administration announced plans to revise the current rules for dealing with shortages and pursue a new agreement to achieve larger reductions in water use. Interior Department officials have said they will consider alternatives for reductions in their review and may need to significantly reduce the amount of water releases from Glen Canyon Dam, where water levels have been sinking closer to a point at which the dam could no longer generate power. So far, four California water districts — the Imperial Irrigation District, Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, Palo Verde Irrigation District and Coachella Valley Water District — have proposed to reduce water use by up to 400,000 acre-feet per year. That would amount to about 9% of the state’s total water allotment from the river for the next four years, through 2026.
https://www.latimes.com/environment/sto ... iver-water
https://archive.ph/7g1Mx

And the battle goes on. The Imperial Valley in CA and the Yuma, AZ area are where winter fresh vegetables come from for the US. They probably have the oldest water rights to the Colorado River water. Arizona vs California is the longest running US Supreme Court case. Besides water, there are a lot of power generating plants on the Colorado River both upper and lower basins, it's a lot bigger than just Hoover Dam.
https://www.usbr.gov/uc/power/
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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It's ridiculous that California get the lions share of the river water. California as best I can tell has ZERO tributaries that feed into the Colorado, And Arizona has the most land encompassing or bordering the river. Yet southern Cal gets a billion gallons a day.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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I agree CDF, protect them from evaporation and generate solar power. They'd also have to be fenced for security reasons to protect the water and power grid. LADWP uses shade balls they created for their reservoirs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade_bal ... arcinogen.

People were whining down her as they watched all the rain water wash into the the Pacific Ocean from our recent rains. Planning should have started years ago to build more reservoirs in the So Cal area with systems to capture rain water.

Another LA Times article.

How Las Vegas declared war on thirsty grass and set an example for the desert Southwest
https://www.latimes.com/environment/sto ... n-on-grass
https://archive.ph/CAAMM
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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But now we have the Fort Worth ISD killing the Sex Ed classes.
Full story: https://www.texastribune.org/2023/01/28 ... education/

Don't teach the students how babies are made and how to prevent catching STDs. Just more of the rightwing's "Keep 'Em Barefoot Pregnant and in the kitchen."
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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tonguengroover wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:25 am It's ridiculous that California get the lions share of the river water. California as best I can tell has ZERO tributaries that feed into the Colorado, And Arizona has the most land encompassing or bordering the river. Yet southern Cal gets a billion gallons a day.
This here is exactly why the discussion on 2A is so confused and convoluted in American culture. Many people don’t understand the connection between the history of a law and how it affects modern day rights.

We here at LGC are thoroughly versed on our constitutional right to bear arms. Many Americans don’t understand why this right is enshrined in the constitution and see it as a hindrance to a modern society where safety is primary. They don’t understand how this constitutional right came to be one possibly consider what it still means to some Americans living in situations other than their lives, their neighborhoods.

Likewise, unless one is a real estate licensee or attorney, most people probably don’t realize that water rights are right up there along with land rights secured by physical property boundaries. The concept of easements is something most people only associate with utilities but water rights are even more powerful than access easements because they run on the abstract principle of “first in time, first in right,” for perpetuity! There are very “real world” consequences which underpin such laws, not the least of which are food and commodities prices which are grown with the water.

I actually bring this up to widen our view about laws and gun rights in America. The discussion of gun control with regard to how laws are enshrined (and also interpreted!) are much more nuanced than most people consider. More and more our communities must move toward intelligent considerations of real world problems when the laws themselves don’t address them… or may even be a hinderance to solving serious challenges. Standing on a soapbox and proclaiming just one POV may have value in educating others, but it stands in the way of our own understanding of the bigger picture.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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Eris wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:31 pm In order to use less water we need fewer people in the region. Stop expanding the population of the US and stop moving people to where there are not enough resources to support them.

That's not a popular opinion, though, because it doesn't put people's wants first.
I’m personally doing my part in curbing population growth… :laugh:
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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Edward Abbey? Hell, Wesley Powell argued that case in 1893!

As Bisbee notes, California water rights are complicated, with historical roots in the state constitution. Long before hydrology was understood in any detail.

As there are a lot of flagrant misconceptions about the actual use of water in California and practical policy approaches to solving them - hmm, sounds like another area many of us share an interest in - I'll just post this link as a reminder that urban consumption represents only 10% of California's demand vs. 40% for agriculture, and consumption for both has been dropping for decades despite population growth.
https://cwc.ca.gov/-/media/CWC-Website/ ... Sheets.pdf

Climate change is drying up the supply faster than consumption is dropping - kind of like tapping the brakes as the oncoming driver veers into your lane, it just postpones a hard reckoning unless other actions are taken to avert disaster. Cut the urban population of California in half and the problem wouldn't get much better. We need sustainable agriculture with sustainable water policies across the West.

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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I (and others) expect a sizable few folks from that area having the resources to move elsewhere so they can have an easier time getting water. Those who can't afford to move will find themselves with poor property values (thus "upside down" on their mortgages, making it even harder to afford to move away), and hideously-expensive water. Dust Bowl again, anybody?

And, of course, the areas of the country that don't have (much) trouble getting potable water are going to have population surges. I live near the Ohio River, so I'm in good shape for now, but it wouldn't surprise me to see my property tax assessment go up over the next ten years as a function of people migrating back east from drought-prone areas.

Humans are our own worst enemy.
Eventually I'll figure out this signature thing and decide what I want to put here.

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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Looking at California water use for agriculture.
The top ten water users for agriculture.
Pasture (clover, rye, bermuda and other grasses), 4.92 acre feet per acre
Almonds and pistachios, 4.49 acre feet per acre
Alfalfa, 4.48 acre feet per acre
Citrus and subtropical fruits (grapefruit, lemons, oranges, dates, avocados, olives, jojoba), 4.23 acre feet per acre
Sugar beets, 3.89 acre feet per acre
Other deciduous fruits (applies, apricots, walnuts, cherries, peaches, nectarines, pears, plums, prunes, figs, kiwis), 3.7 acre feet per acre
Cotton, 3.67 acre feet per acre
Onions and garlic, 2.96 acre feet per acre
Potatoes, 2.9 acre feet per acre
Vineyards (table, raisin and wine grapes), 2.85 acre feet per acre
They need to change some crops.

Look to change the pasture grasses to those that require less water. Texas A&M can help there.
Almonds and pistachios along with other fruit trees may need to be reduced or grown elsewhere such as Floria. Change to other baring trees.
Cotton can be grown in dry areas. Texas A&M developed dry land cotton to be raised in west Texas almost a century ago.

Just a few changes could save a lot of water.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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SubRosa wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:49 pm Parker dam in AZ uses the Colorado to generate power to pump river water to LA for the Metropolitan Water District.

I used to know a shift operator there.
Yup that's right.

Image
Image


The Metropolitan Water District is a huge entity created by the state connecting the Colorado Aqueduct, the state water project and lakes and treatment plants.

Image




http://knowtheflow.la/IMAGES/MAP.pdf
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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highdesert wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:30 am
SubRosa wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:49 pm Parker dam in AZ uses the Colorado to generate power to pump river water to LA for the Metropolitan Water District.

I used to know a shift operator there.
Yup that's right.

The Metropolitan Water District is a huge entity created by the state connecting the Colorado Aqueduct, the state water project and lakes and treatment plants.


http://knowtheflow.la/IMAGES/MAP.pdf
And I remember Ronnie bitched about the CAP canal costing to much. And to water a stinkin desert. People shouldn't live in the desert if they don't have water, he said.

But Ronnie, the entire coast of southern California is a stinkin desert.
The feds have always been biased against Arizona for some reason.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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TrueTexan wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:21 pm Looking at California water use for agriculture.
The top ten water users for agriculture.
Pasture (clover, rye, bermuda and other grasses), 4.92 acre feet per acre
Almonds and pistachios, 4.49 acre feet per acre
Alfalfa, 4.48 acre feet per acre
Citrus and subtropical fruits (grapefruit, lemons, oranges, dates, avocados, olives, jojoba), 4.23 acre feet per acre
Sugar beets, 3.89 acre feet per acre
Other deciduous fruits (applies, apricots, walnuts, cherries, peaches, nectarines, pears, plums, prunes, figs, kiwis), 3.7 acre feet per acre
Cotton, 3.67 acre feet per acre
Onions and garlic, 2.96 acre feet per acre
Potatoes, 2.9 acre feet per acre
Vineyards (table, raisin and wine grapes), 2.85 acre feet per acre
They need to change some crops.

Look to change the pasture grasses to those that require less water. Texas A&M can help there.
Almonds and pistachios along with other fruit trees may need to be reduced or grown elsewhere such as Floria. Change to other baring trees.
Cotton can be grown in dry areas. Texas A&M developed dry land cotton to be raised in west Texas almost a century ago.

Just a few changes could save a lot of water.
The top two out of three is for meat and dairy. The demand for those two drive that water use. It is not necessary for adults to eat meat, so a change there in diets is very big. Dairy is another thing, though, because butter and pizza.

Up here where we grow almonds, the farmers are moving to drip irrigation, but they have not yet begun to mulch between rows, which would cut down on evapo-transpiration. The same strategy would work for citrus and other fruit trees--up here we do apples and stone fruits, and the farmers are moving to drip but again have not made the move to mulching. I'm quite surprised that rice does not make it onto the list here. Probably because we grow rice over lava cap, and the water farmers use does not soak very deep, but it evaporates.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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CD, I thought rice would be on the top ten. But when I looked it up the rice farmers have developed way to grow rice with less water.
In the last 30 years, CA rice production has achieved a 40% increase in water use efficiency
https://www.accrice.com/facts-about-cal ... production
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: "States at impasse as Colorado River water deadline arrives; pressure builds on California"

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California has given the federal government its own counterproposal for apportioning reductions of Colorado River water, saying a plan offered by six other states would disproportionately burden farms and cities in Southern California. Water agencies that depend on the river submitted their proposal to the Biden administration on Tuesday, the same day that federal officials had set as a deadline for the Colorado River Basin states to reach agreement on how to prevent reservoirs from dropping to dangerously low levels. The state put forward its proposal a day after Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming released their alternative. A large portion of the cuts they proposed would be made by accounting for evaporation and other water losses along the lower portion of the river — a calculation that would translate into especially large reductions for California, which uses more Colorado River water than any other state. “The six-state proposal directly and disproportionately impacts California,” said Wade Crowfoot, the state’s natural resources secretary. “It doesn’t seem like a constructive approach for some states to fashion a proposal that only impacts the existing water security and water rights of another state that’s not part of that proposal.”
The state’s proposal builds on a previous commitment by four Southern California water agencies to cut water use by 400,000 acre-feet per year, a reduction of about 9%, through 2026. The federal government has asked the states to reduce their total usage by 2 to 4 million acre-feet. On top of the planned reductions in California and other states, the proposal calls for taking measures aimed at keeping reservoirs above certain levels, including making additional cuts on a tiered scale if the level of Lake Mead, the country’s largest reservoir, continues to decline toward critically low levels.
Federal officials in June called for the seven states to come up with plans to reduce water diversions by approximately 15% to 30%. But negotiations among the states grew tense and acrimonious and didn’t produce a deal. In October, the Biden administration announced plans to revise the current rules for dealing with shortages and to pursue a new agreement for major reductions in water use.
https://www.latimes.com/environment/sto ... ver-crisis
https://archive.ph/5YlUH

I'm all for saying no private swimming pools and lawns, I don't care if the owners can afford to pay higher water rates.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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