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If 18 is the legal age of adulthood, then if a person is younger, that's a child.

With respect to "intentional" shootings by a child, we know that kids can really be sure of a thing they're going to do. I think the 18 year old cut off accepts that people younger than 18 have insufficiently developed judgement. This means they can intentionally do something they'd never do once they developed adult judgement skills.

CDF
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SANTAQUIN, Utah (AP) — A 5-year-old Utah boy died when he accidentally shot himself with a handgun in a small town south of Salt Lake City on Thursday, police said.

Lt. Mike Wall with the Santaquin Police Department told KSL-TV the boy found a 9 mm handgun in the back room of his house and fired a single shot. The boy’s parents and siblings were inside the home when the shooting happened but were not with him in the room.

They tried to resuscitate him until emergency responders arrived, but he died at the scene. Authorities do not suspect foul play, and investigators are trying to determine how the boy got ahold of the gun.
https://apnews.com/article/utah-boy-kil ... dium=share

Another unsupervised gun in a house with a child. But seriously, "in a back room?"

While it may very well be the purpose of gun storage laws is to "encourage" safe storage, we also must recall that a few parents leave their children in hot cars while they go into a store, which is illegal in some states.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/9-month-dead- ... =113053241

CDF
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CDFingers wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:45 am
Another unsupervised gun in a house with a child. But seriously, "in a back room?"

While it may very well be the purpose of gun storage laws is to "encourage" safe storage, we also must recall that a few parents leave their children in hot cars while they go into a store, which is illegal in some states.

CDF
....I think that statistically more children drown in unattended swimming pools and bathtubs than by guns in the manner described. That said, no matter how many laws we enact, we'll never fix stupid. I don't believe we can legislate ourselves into a safe space for all. That said, my thoughts and compassion go out to the family and parents of this dead child. No one should witness the death of a family member in their own home by firearms. It's a permanent case of PTSD for the survivors.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress. Hope is not a Plan.

Dot 'em if ya got 'em!

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:15 am
....I think that statistically more children drown in unattended swimming pools and bathtubs than by guns in the manner described. That said, no matter how many laws we enact, we'll never fix stupid. I don't believe we can legislate ourselves into a safe space for all. That said, my thoughts and compassion go out to the family and parents of this dead child. No one should witness the death of a family member in their own home by firearms. It's a permanent case of PTSD for the survivors.

VooDoo
I totally agree. There is no national law requiring locked gates around swimming pools. There is in California, but there's not a law about bathtubs. I agree that we can't fix stupid, but we might be able to put a governor on it, which is like the CA locked gate/swimming pool thing--bids on pools here include the cost of the fence. It has proven most difficult to keep communities stable and orderly without infringing on people's freedom to have an open pool or on people's choice to store guns insecurely. We've seen laws overturned, and we've even see a Constitutional amendment overturned against booze. Messy is democracy.

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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An 8-year-old boy has died after accidentally shooting himself with a loaded gun left in a car while his mother was inside a Utah convenience store, police said.

The boy was alone in the car about 7:40 p.m. Monday in Lehi — a city about 30 miles south of Salt Lake City — when he shot himself in the head, Jeanteil Livingston with the Lehi City Police Department confirmed to CBS News. The incident occurred in a vehicle located in the parking lot of a Maverick gas station, police said.

The boy was taken to a local hospital in extremely critical condition. He was later airlifted to a hospital up north and died Tuesday morning, police said.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/8-year-uta ... tore-lehi/

Leaving a kid alone in a car with a loaded gun. What could go wrong?

on edit, in other foolishly-stashed firearms news:
An 11-year-old has allegedly confessed to fatally shooting a former city council member and his daughter, according to officials in Louisiana.

Officers in Minden, about 30 miles east of Shreveport, received a call at 6:30 a.m. Sunday about two bodies inside of a house, Minden Police Chief Jared McIver told ABC News on Tuesday.

--snrp--

The child was at the house Sunday morning and allegedly shot the victims between 6 and 6:30 a.m., the chief said.

Two guns that belonged in the house were found hidden on the property, the chief said, and the shell casings at the scene were of the same caliber as the two guns.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-year-alleg ... =113346121

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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The mother of a 6-year-old was charged this week after her son took a loaded handgun to school and passed it around to other students in his class, court records show.

Ke'Erinie King, 22, has been charged with child abuse and child neglect or endangerment, carrying a weapon on school property and contributing to the delinquency of a minor, according to an affidavit.

--snrps--

Officers discovered the weapon was stolen using its serial number, according to court records.

When interviewing King, she allegedly admitted the handgun belonged to her and that she bought it from an "unknown person," according to the affidavit.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-charge ... =113470383

In this interesting incident, we actually find two instances of improperly secured firearms--with the same gun. First, it was stolen. Had it been locked in a safe, that would not have happened, most likely. Second, the gun was improperly secured such that a six year old could swipe it and show it around to friends at school. We have to count our lucky stars that no one was shot accidentally, as it appears the child held no malice. He just wanted to show it around.

CDF
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Here is the latest preventable death from unsecured and loaded guns.
A woman, a three-year-old, a two-year-old and an infant were all in a parked SUV outside the Audie L. Murphy VA Medical Center, authorities said in a news conference, according to CBS affiliate KENS. There was a loaded long gun "in the very rear of the vehicle," police chief William McManus said, and one of the toddlers got ahold of the weapon and fired it, striking and killing the infant, who was 10 or 11 months old.

Police have not said who owns the gun. No charges have been filed.

Such shootings have been on the rise in recent years. Hundreds of young children in the U.S. have been killed while playing with guns in the past two decades, according to a 2023 study published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The study found that most of those deaths were preventable, since they involved guns that were stored unlocked and loaded.

Unintentional firearm deaths made up around a quarter of all firearm deaths over this time period in children under 10 years old, according to other CDC data.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baby-dead- ... ath-texas/

Safe storage is a good band wagon to hop onto. Guns are special and require special attention.

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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Since we’re talking security, has anyone heard or know of independent testing of home safes? The only thing I can find is ratings that just repeat manufacturer specs, and do not employ locksmiths, burglars, people who can tear up anvils with bananas, etc., for resistance to entry and or removal.

After my mother-in-law passed, we found a safe hidden away in the back of a closet. Weighed around 70lbs. It took me approximately 20 minuets to open it with half that time fetching a 3# hammer and a large punch. One hit and the dial was sent across the room, a half dozen more and the gizmo that stays the bolts was accessed and removed with my pocket tool pliers. No name anywhere on the thing. Looked imposing, but that was all theater.

Inside? Several rolls of commemorative coins, pictures.
I ordered a case of optimism from Amazon, but porch pirates beat me to it. Still, chin-up.

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Use of dedicated safes are practical for families with children. I totally oppose laws that mandate safe storage as it imposes an unfair burden on people with limited means and no children. Anyone breaking into my house has already committed a crime.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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papajim2jordan wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:53 am Since we’re talking security, has anyone heard or know of independent testing of home safes? The only thing I can find is ratings that just repeat manufacturer specs, and do not employ locksmiths, burglars, people who can tear up anvils with bananas, etc., for resistance to entry and or removal.

After my mother-in-law passed, we found a safe hidden away in the back of a closet. Weighed around 70lbs. It took me approximately 20 minuets to open it with half that time fetching a 3# hammer and a large punch. One hit and the dial was sent across the room, a half dozen more and the gizmo that stays the bolts was accessed and removed with my pocket tool pliers. No name anywhere on the thing. Looked imposing, but that was all theater.

Inside? Several rolls of commemorative coins, pictures.
Here's a good article from 2020 by Consumer Reports. Good call in the article for safe storage as well as showing stats.
Currently, there are no federal safety standards for gun safes. The industry relies on voluntary standards set by groups such as ASTM International and UL, and standards for gun safes set by the California Department of Justice.

Several products have been recalled, including the Alpha Guardian Stack-On Sentinel gun safe and Harbor Freight Tools electronic handgun safes. If you are purchasing a gun safe secondhand, check the Consumer Product Safety Commission's site to make sure it hasn't been recalled.

Some experts prefer safes with functions such as biometrics because they ensure that only the gun owner or an authorized user can open the safe and because they can be opened quickly.

Others, like Dave Goetzinger, a gun-safe security enthusiast in Eugene, Ore., recommend a handgun storage safe "made with a lot of steel with a heavy mechanical push-button lock."
https://www.consumerreports.org/gun-saf ... n-storage/

The article about the kids shooting other kids above was pure stupidity. Mom left toddlers in the car with a loaded rifle. What could go wrong? Well, what could go wrong, did go wrong. The woman was stupid. This was a preventable gun death totally. Even in Texas, laws should punish this kind of stupid.

CDF
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Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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"a lot of steel with a heavy mechanical push-button lock."


CDF


An older single handgun "safe", company no longer exists, i believe. I don't use it anymore, perhaps I'll take that hammer and punch to it and see how it holds up.
IMG_2947.JPG
IMG_2947.JPG (900.04 KiB) Viewed 1447 times
IMG_2948.JPG
IMG_2948.JPG (1.11 MiB) Viewed 1447 times
I ordered a case of optimism from Amazon, but porch pirates beat me to it. Still, chin-up.

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A 7-year-old boy fatally shot his 2-year-old brother after finding a gun in the glove box, according to authorities in California.

The shooting unfolded just before 4 p.m. Monday in the cab of a truck that was in a parking lot in Rancho Cucamonga, the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department said.

The shooting appeared to be accidental, sheriff's department spokesperson Gloria Huerta told ABC News.

The boys’ mom had just parked at a shopping center and was outside of the car, unloading items to bring inside, at the time of the shooting, Huerta told Los Angeles ABC station KABC.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/boy-7-fatally ... =116444898

Most unfortunate. It's easy for me to say that the gun should have been in her purse or on her body, but I'm not her. Most unfortunate.

If you carry, think solidly.

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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Tragic. The 2 year old was fatally shot so the parents or maybe just the mother will face a slew of charges. Rancho Cucamonga isn't a bad area, but we don't know where they actually lived. Even Everytown's questionable numbers shows fewer shootings this year than last, so that's positive.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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highdesert wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 7:40 am Tragic. The 2 year old was fatally shot so the parents or maybe just the mother will face a slew of charges. Rancho Cucamonga isn't a bad area, but we don't know where they actually lived. Even Everytown's questionable numbers shows fewer shootings this year than last, so that's positive.
Too tragic for words. You're right to point out errors, like carrying where it's not necessary. And obviously she did not have a line of sight to precisely where the gun was stashed. The kids knew it was there. So sad. I suppose the more radical carriers among us would argue that you have to carry everywhere. If you do, you certainly have to pay attention--that's my position.

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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And yet here is an example of the complete failure to use the opportunity to disseminate useful information instead of pearl clutching. In California it is illegal to transport a handgun in the utility or glove compartment of a vehicle.
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 16850, the term "locked container" means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment.
Maybe the Sheriff's spokesperson mentioned the specific transportation laws and it wasn't included in the story. Missed the opportunity to help educate the public big time.

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BKinzey wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:12 pm And yet here is an example of the complete failure to use the opportunity to disseminate useful information instead of pearl clutching. In California it is illegal to transport a handgun in the utility or glove compartment of a vehicle.
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 16850, the term "locked container" means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment.
Maybe the Sheriff's spokesperson mentioned the specific transportation laws and it wasn't included in the story. Missed the opportunity to help educate the public big time.
I agree with you. People need to know how to be responsible, and laws teach them that--with the media's help we'd be doing a lot better. Good eye there, BKinzey.

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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tailgunner wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:13 am There's no excuse. You can get a cheap gun safe for like 20 bucks. I got this one from Walmart for 50 bucks. Works friggin great for when I don't want to carry or cannot take gun into places.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Machir-Delux ... om=/search
Another tragic event that could have been prevented.

Agree. I have for years used the GunVault Nano300 with rotary 3-row combo lock with shielded cable attached to F150 driver side door hinge and stored in side pocket along with two spare mags. Over a 12 year or so period, I've had two fail - GunVault, with no hesitation, sent me a new rotary lock which no longer locked and complete new one after I had to pry open one to extract my pistol. The 300 has enough room for my Taurus PT92. The 300 IS NOT Cali DOJ approved. Just checked GV web site - seems they have dropped their lifetime warranty for a five year and I gave away my spare to a friend recently!
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
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Wino wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:18 am
tailgunner wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:13 am There's no excuse. You can get a cheap gun safe for like 20 bucks. I got this one from Walmart for 50 bucks. Works friggin great for when I don't want to carry or cannot take gun into places.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Machir-Delux ... om=/search
Another tragic event that could have been prevented.

Agree. I have for years used the GunVault Nano300 with rotary 3-row combo lock with shielded cable attached to F150 driver side door hinge and stored in side pocket along with two spare mags. Over a 12 year or so period, I've had two fail - GunVault, with no hesitation, sent me a new rotary lock which no longer locked and complete new one after I had to pry open one to extract my pistol. The 300 has enough room for my Taurus PT92. The 300 IS NOT Cali DOJ approved. Just checked GV web site - seems they have dropped their lifetime warranty for a five year and I gave away my spare to a friend recently!
That's the ticket. Guns are special things, and they require special considerations.

Now, many times I would have spaced out replacing the battery on a gun safe. For this reason and one more I prefer the manual tumbler combo lock. No batteries. The second is that if I deteriorate from old and forget the combo, I can't do mischief with my guns. So far, perfect combo memory amid old.

CDF

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CDFingers wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:51 pm
BKinzey wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:12 pm And yet here is an example of the complete failure to use the opportunity to disseminate useful information instead of pearl clutching. In California it is illegal to transport a handgun in the utility or glove compartment of a vehicle.
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 16850, the term "locked container" means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment.
Maybe the Sheriff's spokesperson mentioned the specific transportation laws and it wasn't included in the story. Missed the opportunity to help educate the public big time.
I agree with you. People need to know how to be responsible, and laws teach them that--with the media's help we'd be doing a lot better. Good eye there, BKinzey.

CDF
Yes when I went to Dizzyland recently I was in an SUV so no trunk. All I had to do was lock the gun safe to the back of the front seat, just out of reach.

I just saw a newer carry safe at www.stopboxusa.com. They are having a sale. Still pricey though.
GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH - FREE SPEECH IS NOT FREE.

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A 15 year old girl shot and killed two in Madison, WI, then killed herself. As yet we don't know how she got the 9mm pistol, but we totally know a 15 year old cannot legally buy a gun.

Unless you're carrying it, working with it, or can see directly where it's stashed, your gun needs to be secured where unauthorized people cannot access it. This is voluntary on your part, storing your guns securely. If you do not do that, you volunteer to have your gun swiped and used incorrectly.

https://apnews.com/live/madison-wiscons ... ng-updates

We are living in a strange world, I claim, full of humans.
The United States has by far the highest rate of child and teen firearm mortality among peer nations. In no other similarly large, wealthy country are firearms in the top four causes of death for children and teens, let alone the number one cause. U.S. states with the most gun laws have lower rates of child and teen firearm deaths than states with few gun laws. But, even states with the lowest child and teen firearm deaths have rates much higher than what peer countries experience.
https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue ... countries/

It's up to the adults, the same crew who elected a vindictive, immoral con man. Oh, woe is us.

Update

Here's the update, because inevitably there's a manifesto. But here is how the kid got the gun:
The author also writes that they acquired weapons "by lies and manipulation, and my father's stupidity" and describes wanting to die by suicide, but feeling like carrying out a shooting was "better for evolution rather than just one stupid boring suicide."
https://www.newsweek.com/natalie-rupnow ... ow-2001880

Don't be "that guy."

CDF
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