Six-year old shoots their teacher

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NEWPORT NEWS, Va. (AP) — A 6-year-old student shot and wounded a Virginia teacher Friday during an altercation inside a first-grade classroom, police and school officials in the city of Newport News said.

No students were injured in the shooting at Richneck Elementary School, police said. The teacher — a woman in her 30s — suffered life-threatening injuries. Newport News Police Chief Steve Drew told reporters that her condition had improved somewhat by late afternoon.

Police said the child had a handgun in the classroom and that they took that student into custody.
https://apnews.com/article/newport-news ... 816a21b5be

Safe storage laws, blah blah blah. Cue the usual "gun rights" and "gun grabber" detractors.

I fail to see how making laws that punish idiocy like this infringes on any rights. If you want a gun at home, carry it and lock up the rest.

This is plain dumb not to have national safe storage laws. Carry your light weight compact revolver around the house so you can fight your way to your arsenal to defend against the scimitar-wielding weasels astride the saber toothed wildebeests. JFC.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

2
Can't agree with that. My Dad had his guns in the nightstand drawer throughout my entire childhood. He showed me where they were when I was 5 years old. His reason: "Son, I don't hide things from you. You need to know that it's there." I also knew not to touch those guns without his permission! He was letting me know where they were so that I would stay away from them, and it worked. I didn't touch his guns until I was in my 40's and already a seasoned rangemaster, and even then, it was by his request (he wanted me to check his guns out--I oiled 'em up for him). It's called raising your children and teaching them, folks.

So, my question now is, why didn't the parents of this 6-year-old teach their child the same thing my Dad taught me at 5?
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Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Fuck. I don't have any answers for this other than the quality of parenting seems to be severely lacking.

I taught my daughter about gun safety. I also always had my shit locked up. But I knew her friends parents might not. So, gun safety was taught.anyway. She was welcome to look at my guns any time she asked, with supervision, of course. Mystery removed, she never asked. Not even after going shooting with me a few times. And she never had unsupervised access. Still doesn't even as an adult. Nor does anyone else who comes over accept my wife.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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This used to happen regularly not so many years ago, and we've had this discussion before here on the LGC forums. Parents taught their kids about proper gun safety. Kids would look forward to that new Henry Big Boy in .22LR for their birthday and proudly ride the bus home from the gun store with it, Dads right by their sides. People would ask, "hey...big kid now, eh? That your Henry Big Boy?" Kid had the biggest grin as he said, "yes, Sir/Ma'am!" Dad was just as proud. The very notion of actually shooting another person was by and large foreign to kids. These were kids who grew up on Westerns and such.

My Dad likewise got taught proper gun safety by Grandpa. Dad was pretty good with that lever-action .38-40 huntin' rifle. Grandpa's guns were in an unlocked gun rack in the house, as was common in that day; same for Grandpa's auto shop.

Parents don't teach their kids this anymore, it seems, with the frequency that we used to see even when I was a kid, and I'm not that old (yet). Parents need to do so. It's part of responsible parenting.
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Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CT the same was taught by my dad only he kept his S&W 38 on the top shelf in the bedroom closet. He started teaching me about gun safety when I turn 4 and good a pair of Circle N Nichols 45 replica 6 shooters with rotating cylinders. For toy guns of that time I was in tall cotton. He said never point these guns at anybody. The reasoning was those guns looked like the real thing and he didn’t want me getting hurt or someone thinking I had a real gun and shoot me. Later he taught me the four rules. He grew up on a ranch and hunted to put food on the table, just like my mom. Nobody thought anything about older kids with guns. Even when I turn 15 dad bought me my first real gun, Marlin M1-99 carbine in 22LR. I still have it. In high school a bunch of the JrROTC cadets went to the national grasslands in Nort Texas on werkend. We brought our guns to School left them in the ROTC armory during school and went camping with them after school for the weekend. Nobody said a thing about it. My wife was teaching high school in a rural area right after we were married. You could walk out into the parking lot and see pickup after pickup with the gun rack in the back window and a riffle on the rack. Nobody worried, that was just normal behavior. If two guys got pissed at each other no guns involved they just beat the crap out of each other until a coach or principal stopped them took them to the office, busted their butts, made them shake hands at that was all of it.

How times have changed.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Yes, times have changed. And many immigrants from completely cultures have also become Americans in the meantime. Meaning they enjoy all the rights and freedoms of Americans without first having learned the responsibilities involved.

There is an unfortunate assumption that all people should think and behave the same way if they are sane. The unfortunate part is that this is fantasy, not born from experience in any time in human history.

And even if we discount the influx of foreign culture into our country with regard to gun ownership, some could make a rational argument that American culture itself has also changed in the interim to become intecognizable to some. Freedoms and responsibilities associated with constitutional rights are no longer being practiced by all Americans, their lifestyles and way of thinking are slowly becoming “foreign” to some older, traditional Americans.

I am firmly in the camp of defending constitutional rights that are hard won and loath to given them up. But I’ve also lived overseas for many years and existed quite happily within the social and legal restrictions of that culture as well. Insofar as freedoms come with heavy responsibilities, I feel that such fundamental education is lacking in our American culture… and THAT, my friends, is likely by design. Consumerism discourages responsibility in the same way that it encourages short-term thinking and pleasure-seeking: a adolescent view of life that has infiltrated all of American values (particularly in politics). Who can argue this is not a fundamental flaw in our culture when “freedumz” have fundamentally become divorced from, indeed trumps, personal responsibility? This is reflected in the problems of gun ownership, yes, but goes far beyond into climate change et al.

Try doing this in the wild and nature would take you down in a matter of days, no matter what tools or toys you own.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Actually, that was the norm not so long ago. And it really wasn't so long ago. Had I grown up in, say, Oregon or Washington State instead of the San Francisco Bay Area, I probably would've seen those gun racks in the trucks, too. When I moved to the Seattle area, that basic mindset was still there, especially if you went out into the rural areas of Washington State. The common way to settle arguments/fights was to duke it out, just like TT pointed out. And the truly old school way, when my Dad was growing up, the principal would have both of you put on the gloves, put the two of you in the ring, and settle whatever you had to settle, after which you shook hands and went home. There was a TV show in the 1980's starring Pat Morita. It was called, "Ohara", and that's exactly what he, a senior cop, and a young cop who didn't like him, did. They went to the gym and settled it. The two were fine after that. And remember, that was the 1980's, our time...on mainstream TV.

We didn't have school shootings. We didn't have kids shooting other people. We just...didn't. I never even heard of kids shooting other kids when I was a kid until the gang-bangers of Los Angeles, and even then, that generally happened off of school campus (that was generally drug-related, thanks to the introduction of crack cocaine into Black and Latino neighborhoods under Reagan and Bush-41). And many homes had at least one gun of some sort, that "rifle behind each blade of grass". Therefore, something else had to have happened. I believe that "something else" was the refusal of parents to raise their kids. You know, a little old-school ain't so bad, folks.

We talk a lot about "root cause" here on the LGC forums. Well, here, that's what's important to stress with kids. That's fixing the root cause, actually paying attention to the kids and raising them right. Do that, and we'll again be like it was when I was a kid.
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Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CDFingers wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:14 pm
NEWPORT NEWS, Va. (AP) — A 6-year-old student shot and wounded a Virginia teacher Friday during an altercation inside a first-grade classroom, police and school officials in the city of Newport News said.

No students were injured in the shooting at Richneck Elementary School, police said. The teacher — a woman in her 30s — suffered life-threatening injuries. Newport News Police Chief Steve Drew told reporters that her condition had improved somewhat by late afternoon.

Police said the child had a handgun in the classroom and that they took that student into custody.
https://apnews.com/article/newport-news ... 816a21b5be

Safe storage laws, blah blah blah. Cue the usual "gun rights" and "gun grabber" detractors.

I fail to see how making laws that punish idiocy like this infringes on any rights. If you want a gun at home, carry it and lock up the rest.

This is plain dumb not to have national safe storage laws. Carry your light weight compact revolver around the house so you can fight your way to your arsenal to defend against the scimitar-wielding weasels astride the saber toothed wildebeests. JFC.

CDFingers
Not enforceable. The only time it may come up is during an investigation into incidents like above. Cannot regulate stupid.
BUT, the parents had better be hammered for this. PLUS, these probably 'legal gun owners' hurt the RKBA gig WAY more than the anti-gun people. Gun owners continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

CowboyT
This used to happen regularly not so many years ago, and we've had this discussion before here on the LGC forums. Parents taught their kids about proper gun safety.
Sounds great but many, many gun owners are oblivious of proper gun safety. Trundle down to any 'gun range USA', and ask anybody what the 4 'rules' are...and 'most' would probably get pissed off, a lot would have no idea wtf you are talking about.

Range ninjas, BBQ guns, swinging that new gun around during the football game half time.....8 million new gun owners, the majority of whom never shoot the thing..just pt in in the nightstand drawer, 'just in case'....
Again-
PLUS, these probably 'legal gun owners' hurt the RKBA gig WAY more than the anti-gun people. Gun owners continue to shoot themselves in the foot.
Bibee writes
And many immigrants from completely cultures have also become Americans in the meantime.
Disagree. This issue with 'don't fuck with me and my guns' is as american as apple pie. Too many 'bubbas' think they can do anything they want with their guns, and they do. Including these parents..."they are MY guns, I'll store them however I want..FU"....attitude.

"I've seen the problem and the problem is us"

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Right: safe storage is not enforceable. But after the fact the owner can be jailed and/or fined. At a certain moment, legal gun owners will bite the bullet and secure their guns.

It is true that our hapless modern consumerist life has produced herds of irresponsible Bubbas who wave "muh gunz" around. It is generational toothpaste that cannot be squeezed back into the tube--we need to take a two pronged approach and educate new gun owners while increasing penalties for foolish existing gun owners. I do think that jailing and/or fining them after the fact will sting enough so more people will prevent a six year old from swiping an unsecured gun.

We have to understand that gun owners can be out voted, as we are in the minority. It is all well and good to maintain absolutist attitudes, but unless we get out in front of the problem, we will not end up with enough votes. It will not go well for us. Strategery, to quote a Bubba.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The world has changed dramatically in the last 60-70 years and we're never going back to the way things were. Growing up in an SF suburb we never locked the house, my grandfather kept his car keys in the visor above the drivers seat. Burglar alarms were only for banks or certain businesses and illegal drugs were only used by the "unsavory types" and on and on.

Urban areas now dominate the US and their nanny laws in cities and counties are now nanny state laws. Technology is the difference, it's changed our culture and the stress on adults and the young to succeed and "be someone" is huge. A result is a huge drug problem, millions of children and adults who can't cope, so they tune out by self medicating with illegal drugs.

We just have to adjust and realize that valuable possessions like our guns have to be locked up. And we need to keep them away from children who aren't constrained by parental commands. Firearms are valuable to us and to thieves who can sell them. We need to lock our houses and our vehicles need theft alarms and maybe our houses need alarms and we can't live our lives in "condition white".
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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As I read the post in this thread, it seems to boil down to a simple fact. To have been given a privilege, like owning a gun, you also have to assume the responsibility of the ownership of that privilege. It is no different in owning a gun or a car. Ether one must be maintained to be in a safe operating condition, must be secured when not being used, must be used in a safe manner not to cause unintentional harm to self or others. In the case of guns it is following the four rules of gun safety and any Federal and State laws applicable to gun ownership. For the car following the motor vehicle laws of the state and federal government.

Unfortunately we have those that think they are above the laws and customs. They feel they are above any laws/customs that would apply to us mere mortals.These are the ones that make life difficult for the rest of us mere mortals.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Bisbee wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:41 pm Consumerism discourages responsibility in the same way that it encourages short-term thinking and pleasure-seeking: a adolescent view of life that has infiltrated all of American values (particularly in politics).
Really well said, Bisbee. Hadn't thought about it that way: "Here, we can store that for you so you can access it anywhere. Here's a car that drives itself. Here's a game you can play on your phone anytime you're stuck in traffic."

Part of that short-term thinking is that we don't think about the guy mining the coal or working at Foxconn or smoking meth 2.0 (the non-Sudafed based new crap that turns people into zombies in five days instead of five months.) We're safe inside our little bubble of products. Other people can be reviled and demonized at a distance. Even in the '80s, I'd sometimes sit down with local homeless people and find out their stories-- why won't you let me buy you a half chicken instead of giving you money for dope? We'd actually talk about stuff-- kid around, get to know each other a little.

When a young adult talks guns with me-- not that it happens that often-- it generally goes two different ways. Either it's clear their parents have instilled a strong sense of gun safety that goes way beyond the four rules, or it's like I'm the first person over 40 they've ever had a non-hysterical conversation with about guns.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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TrueTexan wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:53 pm As I read the post in this thread, it seems to boil down to a simple fact. To have been given a privilege, like owning a gun, you also have to assume the responsibility of the ownership of that privilege.
Right there is the error. The right to keep and bear arms is not a privilege, but a right, just like the right of free speech.
TrueTexan wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:53 pm It is no different in owning a gun or a car. Ether one must be maintained to be in a safe operating condition, must be secured when not being used, must be used in a safe manner not to cause unintentional harm to self or others. In the case of guns it is following the four rules of gun safety and any Federal and State laws applicable to gun ownership. For the car following the motor vehicle laws of the state and federal government.
Driving a gun on public roads is a privilege. The right to keep and bear arms, by contrast, is exactly that, a right.
TrueTexan wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:53 pm Unfortunately we have those that think they are above the laws and customs. They feel they are above any laws/customs that would apply to us mere mortals.These are the ones that make life difficult for the rest of us mere mortals.
That's OK if people merely *think* that they're above the laws and customs. People think that all the time; I don't know of any sane person who hasn't had the desire to do "extra-legal" damage to, say, a child molester. The question really is, what happens when one *acts* on those thoughts? The answer is, you have to pay the price. Unfortunately, our elected officials routinely get rewarded for doing just that, by people re-electing these jerks.

It is true that we must follow the laws of our land. If we don't like those laws, then it is our job to vote in legislators and executives that will change them to what we want, and my hope is that such change will be in the spirit of the Founding Fathers' vision of the US Constitution and their experiences fighting against Britain for our independence.

I don't know what should happen with the parents of this six-year-old. I wish I did have an answer. They obviously didn't raise their child very well. Perhaps the parents should be prosecuted; I don't know. I really don't. But I do know that putting further restrictions on me because of these obviously bad parents does not take into account how my Dad raised me. I am not the enemy; I see no reason to attack me for the bad acts, or failure to act, of someone else. I DIDN'T DO IT, so don't punish me and don't attack me. Deal with the people who actually did do it.
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Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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TrueTexan wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:53 pm As I read the post in this thread, it seems to boil down to a simple fact. To have been given a privilege, like owning a gun, you also have to assume the responsibility of the ownership of that privilege.
As somebody else mentioned, owning a gun is a right, not a privilege. Free speech is a right, not a privilege.

What does it mean, to be a right? It means that it can’t be prevented or denied without due process. In other word, without a court conviction or court order. Does that mean exercising the right will always be protected? No. In certain circumstances using the right irresponsibly is punishable. If you use your first amendment right to slander someone, you are subject to a civil suit. If you use your second amendment right to murder someone, you can be prosecuted.

The thing is, the abuse of the right comes AFTER you exercise it. With very few exceptions you can’t be denied a right BEFORE you abuse it. Prohibition has been repealed, which means you have the right to drink alcohol. You can no longer be prohibited from drinking it, but you can be prosecuted if you do then commit stupid things.

I’m open for a law that holds you liable if you have children in the house, fail to secure your firearms, then allow the child to hurt someone. I’m not open to a law mandating any gun in the house to be stored safely. SCOTUS has already ruled that such a thing is unconstitutional.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The Virginia school district where a 6-year-old allegedly intentionally shot a teacher on Friday has had three instances of gun violence on district property in the past 17 months. Police say a 6-year-old boy seriously injured a teacher at Richneck Elementary School when he opened fire in a classroom.
Newport News Public Schools consists of 26,500 students, and includes three early childhood centers, 24 elementary schools, seven middle schools and five high schools, according to the district's website.

In Sept. 2021 a 16-year-old fired several shots in a busy hallway inside Heritage High School during lunchtime, injuring two 17-year-olds, according to NBC affiliate WAVY of Portsmouth, Virginia. The shooter was sentenced to 10 years in prison, according to the outlet.

Less than two months later in December, 18-year-old Demari Batten fatally shot 17-year-old Justice Dunham in the parking lot of Menchville High School after a football game against Woodside High School, also within the Newport News Public Schools system, according to WAVY.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/vi ... -rcna64638
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CDFingers wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:56 am Right: safe storage is not enforceable. But after the fact the owner can be jailed and/or fined. At a certain moment, legal gun owners will bite the bullet and secure their guns.

It is true that our hapless modern consumerist life has produced herds of irresponsible Bubbas who wave "muh gunz" around. It is generational toothpaste that cannot be squeezed back into the tube--we need to take a two pronged approach and educate new gun owners while increasing penalties for foolish existing gun owners. I do think that jailing and/or fining them after the fact will sting enough so more people will prevent a six year old from swiping an unsecured gun.

We have to understand that gun owners can be out voted, as we are in the minority. It is all well and good to maintain absolutist attitudes, but unless we get out in front of the problem, we will not end up with enough votes. It will not go well for us. Strategery, to quote a Bubba.

CDFingers
Don't bet on it..'The MAN can't tell ME what to do'....

Considering that all you need in most states(even blue, blue Colorado) is a driver's license, clean 4473 and a CC#, how do you do that?

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Freedom is untidy; liberty less so. Liberty requires we think of "the other." Freedom allows us to wave around "muh gunz." The Constitution secures for us and our descendants the blessings of liberty rather than freedom. Selling "freedom" is a con job. Selling liberty is much messier, requiring critical thinking. We perceive the results.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CDFingers wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:49 am Freedom is untidy; liberty less so. Liberty requires we think of "the other." Freedom allows us to wave around "muh gunz." The Constitution secures for us and our descendants the blessings of liberty rather than freedom. Selling "freedom" is a con job. Selling liberty is much messier, requiring critical thinking. We perceive the results.

CDFingers
If memory serves, we've had this discussion of "liberty" vs. "freedom" before, somewhat recently. I maintain that they're essentially synonymous. Again, here are the definitions, straight from Merriam-Webster, for folks's consideration.

liberty
noun
lib·​er·​ty ˈli-bər-tē How to pronounce liberty (audio)
plural liberties
1
: the quality or state of being free:
a
: the power to do as one pleases
b
: freedom from physical restraint
c
: freedom from arbitrary or despotic (see despot sense 1) control
d
: the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges
e
: the power of choice



freedom
noun
free·​dom ˈfrē-dəm How to pronounce freedom (audio)
1
: the quality or state of being free: such as
a
: the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action
b
: liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence
c
: the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous
freedom from care
d
: unrestricted use
gave him the freedom of their home
e
: ease, facility
spoke the language with freedom
f
: the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken
answered with freedom
g
: improper familiarity
h
: boldness of conception or execution
2
a
: a political right
b
: franchise, privilege
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Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CDFingers wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:49 am Freedom is untidy; liberty less so. Liberty requires we think of "the other." Freedom allows us to wave around "muh gunz." The Constitution secures for us and our descendants the blessings of liberty rather than freedom. Selling "freedom" is a con job. Selling liberty is much messier, requiring critical thinking. We perceive the results.

CDFingers
AND
Right there is the error. The right to keep and bear arms is not a privilege, but a right, just like the right of free speech.
BUT, that 'right' carries with it responsibility to not be stupid and harm others.....Just like free speech.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Absolutism is a mental-emotional condition, not born out of actual experience but rather a desire for safety. Whereas children sometimes employ fantasy when faced with difficult situations so too some adults resort to Absolutism when feeling powerless. This is the root of Fascim in the modern world.
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"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The gun was legally purchased by the mother. The firearm was recklessly and illegally stored. The shooting was intentional.
What is the law for storing firearms when children are going to be around? A violation of 18.2-56.2 is a Class 3 misdemeanor, which in Virginia is punishable by a fine of $500. Under Virginia Code Section 18.2-56.2, it is unlawful for any person to recklessly leave a loaded firearm in a manner that it would endanger the life or limb of any child under the age of 14.
https://www.uslawshield.com/children-an ... torage-va/

As per press conference 1/9.

CDFingers
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like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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