I have been trying to get out to shoot a lot more the last few months, make some progress on my shooting skills instead of simply maintaining where I'm at. You get into a routine, you start seeing some of the same people - in my case, other people who make it a point to avoid the weekend crowd. One occasional visitor brings an astonishing variety of things that require tax stamps, so that's always fun to see.

So here I am, plinking off small steel plates hanging at the 25 yard line with my Mark IV, and as I'm reloading he compliments me. I'm firmly in the camp of "I should be shooting better, damn it" so that was nice, especially from someone who clearly has some experience base to judge from. He asks if I've ever tried a red dot.

My eyes are not getting better, let's just put it like that. I've already put a rail on the Hunter as I consider my options. The one he's got mounted is in the Holosun family - 2 MOA red dot in a 30-something circular reticle - and high on my list of possibilities. So I jump at the chance. Visibility is great. Seems natural to acquire.

Friends, I was lucky to keep it on paper at 10.

Now, he's got it mounted on a tiny plastic-and-zamak FN502 - still shooting .22LR, but it felt like a toy compared to the chunk of steel I'm used to. I did marginally better with the iron sights, and I notice that the sights don't line up. Turns out he's cross-eye dominant, and I'm not, so maybe it's set up for different eyeballs, but I would think that co-witnessing would still work.

Is it me? Is shooting a polymer carry piece with optics really that different from a long-ass steel target pistol when it comes to technique? Is that FN simply inaccurate? Is it possible that he's got the sight set up to compensate for his own eyesight and technique in ways that just don't work for mine?

Everyone see the world a little differently. I'm right eye dominant and prefer open sights to the red dot gizmos on handguns but it seems to work for me on the AR. My eyes are over 60 and my back is in it's 80's. The only plastic gun I have is a Glock and I hate the trigger and the balance and that it sends brass into my face.

When I drove trucks, I would zip around and thread the thing through tight spaces with never a nick. Then I'd get into my little pick up and back into an interstate pier.

Man with two watches never knows what tine it is.

Beware the man with one gun, he just may know how to use it. Probably why I can't shoot or drive!

Hmm that doesn’t match my experience. I’m mostly an iron sights shooter (for pistols), but whenever I use a red dot I’m able to shoot far more accurately at longer (ie 15-25 yards) distances than I would be able to do with iron sights.

There may have been an issue with the mount being slightly loose or maybe the darn thing just was not zeroed?

I have optics for my 22lr pistols but I took them off thinking that I just needed to exercise my eyes and they would get better using iron sights. False thinking again, I'll put them back on and I know my shooting will improve. Can't totally defeat the aging process, until science can start replacing all our organs. By that time everything will probably be laser pistols and the pistol will determine whether the shot is stun, wound or kill in self defense settings.

Those things didn't just kill, they incinerated. Guess by then we'll have run out of space to bury people.

Soylent Green, anyone?

As for Red-Dots, I personally prefer them over Iron Sights. I find a quicker target acquisition not having to align front and back sights. Spot the dot, that is your hole. I sight them in for me. Others tell me it's a little off, but hey, it's my gun. I can offer this bit of advise, distance makes a world of difference. I have an MPX 9mm that is sighted in for 15 yards. Changing the distance 10 or even 5 yards can make the point of impact off by a couple of inches higher or lower.

Interesting observations, Wings.

The greatest difference I can imagine between red dots and iron sights is the loss of sight-radius in most optics. It’s a strange thing to consider on a pistol (with not much sight-radius and held out at arms length) but I know that the iron-sights on an old 24” bolt action .22 rifle makes that gun amazingly accurate… somewhat magically so. There seems to be an inherent whole body connection that happens with a long sight-radius rifle.

I wonder if you’ve developed such a connection with your long-barreled “Hunter” and somehow miss that visual cue when looking for a single red dot which just seems to be jumping all over the screen?

BTW, I am also apparently cross-dominant and never noticed an issue with anyone else’s optics I’ve borrowed to shoot. But yes, it is entirely possible there was just something screwy with the other guy’s gun (loose mounts or screws). That’s certainly happened more than once.

I was rather excited to see my Beretta came with a RDO.... not sure why. Maybe I'm just a suckered for gadgets. I'm told that target acquisition is quicker with a RDO, what people don't tell you is what a pain it can be to locate that dot quickly. Even when it is on its brightest setting.

When I'm shooting paper and am concerned with accuracy over speed, not so much of an issue. However, when thinking in terms of self defense, those 3 seconds it takes to find the dot could mean the difference between life and death. Then again, most self defense incidents happen at so close range that people often don't have the time (or distance) to properly sight in. All I have is speculation.

That having been said, maybe it's just a matter of optics on handguns being new territory for me. I certainly felt more comfortable and was more accurate shooting my friends new Glock 10mm with irons than I was with my newly acquired, RDO equipped Beretta.

I've come to the conclusion that the problem is me - more precisely, my rx. Looking into the way glasses work, the high-refractive index lenses bend colors to differing degrees. For monochromatic light sources like lasers and LEDs, that means the light is progressively offset the further you get from the optic center of the lens.

Contacts might work better, but I've yet to try. In the meantime, high visibility irons are in order - and I hear nail polish is cheaper than a red dot.

Usually I abhor reviving old threads but I have just come to the discovery that my 68 YO eyes are developing cataracts and I'm going to have to make some changes to the way I sight my carry guns. Enter my testing of red dots mostly because they are everywhere now and quickly becoming a dominant force in sights for handguns. So I mounted an RDO (Red Dot Optic) on my new Beretta 80X Cheetah and I'm diving down that rabbit hole.



Bought a Shield RMSd RDO and the appropriate mounting plate for the RDO Ready Cheetah and got after it. First thing that happened is I simply could not find the dot. Finally after fishing for it I found that my draw to shots fired and accuracy were *way* less than pathetic and started using all kinds of crutches and silly stuff to find the dot and get it on target. Then I searched the Internet and found some training tips - I wanted to give up and blow off RDO's as a new fangled flash in the pan for people who couldn't shoot well anyway and then noticed that virtually all the top competitors in IDPA and such are using RDO's and winning. So I looked into why I was struggling.

Presentation is the key here for me. When I found the dot I reversed the press out portion of the draw and then re presented the gun to exactly where it was and. low and behold, the dot was just instantly there while I focused with both eyes open on the target. So I started doing slow, perfect, press outs in 20 - 30 rep sets to like several hundred perfect press outs every day. Not fast and pushing it - just repeatedly pushing out to a perfect and consistent presentation. Thousands of reps every week. And now I can draw to shots fired (accurately) very quickly and the dot is always there.

So I'm converting all my carry guns to RDO - sold all the extra stuff out of my "collection" and I using the $ for RDO's, mounts, plates, training, ammunition, new holsters to accommodate RDO equipped pistols, and grips to make everything so that I can make this go. This last week or so I got my favorite carry gun outfitted and sighted - Beretta Px4 Full Size. I didn't want the slide cut and modified so I purchased a dovetail mount and cheap sight pusher, pressed out the rear sight, and made it happen.



Completely addicted now, I have ordered enough stuff to do the Px4 Subcompact as well as this is just the most fab thing for 68 YO eyes looking at cataract surgery eventually. But there has been a huge learning curve.



My point kinda is that if you try an RDO and it doesn't gel right off the bat it may be prudent to invest some time and $ into a deeper dive if you are sincerely interested. I'm now addicted and loading ammunition and bought a laser cartridge system and electronic target so I can train against a timer and just enjoy my pistols in my own home without having to go to the range. At least in my case this has been a pleasurable shooting experience.

Sorry to drag up and old thread, thanks for any input you have on this quest, good or bad.

VooDoo

It's been said many times before, in training a new skill, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Good on you, VV.

Sent from my U319AA using Tapatalk

Added a Holosun HS507C X2 to the little brother Px4 - Subcompact pistol using the same Toni Systems Dovetail Universal Mounting Plate type B. Beretta and a couple vendors told me the plate was compatible with the Subcompact. It wasn't. The firing pin block pops up out of the top of the slide on the Px4's and the plate has a hole to let it pass upwards and not impact the plate. Unfortunately it's in the wrong place for the Subcompact version.



The big hole in the center right side. Luckily I had the stuff to just drill it out a little bigger without sacrificing too much material. If i had to do it again I would have just milled the existing hole into an elongated slot but this works fine.



Sighted in at the Range today and followed with 200 rounds. No shifting of zero nor loose screws or shifting mount. it's like a little machine gun now after training with laser cartridges and against a timer. I am appeased.



VooDoo