Re: America's Fascism

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Great article The condensed version of the first part of Rise and Fall of the Third Reich and where our country is following in its path.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: America's Fascism

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Well least our crackpots are not as smart so to say as to just stop abortion on just white women. If you think about it they would allow abortion on people of color, you know to decrease the population of the people they hate.
In the first six years of Nazi rule, from 1933 to 1939, there was a harsh crackdown on the birth control movement. Led by the Gestapo, there was a punitive campaign against doctors who performed abortions on Aryan women.
My Name is Ernesto Inigo Juan Montoya and I approve this message.

Re: America's Fascism

4
While our path is disturbing, its far from the early days of the Nazi's. The rhetoric is much the same, the tactics are much the same, but the big difference is the people. Germans were absolutely destitute and desperate. Our living conditions and economics are nothing like Germany in the 1930's. Even Venezuela is in 500% better shape than the Germans were back then.

So while the "Nazi's" are acting like "Nazi's", the populace isn't anywhere near that desperate. So while they're clearly capable of tolerating some fuckery (the Trump Administration), we're WAY too divided for anyone to have Hitler type success in taking over the government.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: America's Fascism

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Excellent article. Well argued analysis on just how fascism is growing in America, fueling racism and division to ensure power for white (men) while also belittling feminism. This article is not so much arguing that American Nazi’s can arise as much as it is showing us just how prevalent homegrown support for fascism historically has been here in the United States. Hence the believability of Amazon show, “Man in the High Castle,” originally from a novel written in 1962.

BTW, Understand (as the article explains) that limiting abortion is no longer about population control (increasing white people while decreasing others) but actually a misguided attempt to control women and subvert feminism: the idea that women are equal to men in intelligence and deserve positions of power and decision-making in corporate boardrooms and civil society. Misogyny is a blunt instrument much like racism.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: America's Fascism

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Parallel article in The Guardian explaining why Americans are so susceptible to hucksters: Christian Values.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... rs-suckers
If 2016 is any indication, it seems fair to say that the phony, like the rich, will always be with us in American politics. Hairstyles and clothes may have changed, and the enemy goes by a different name, and technology has pushed the political message system into every crease and capillary of waking life, but the schtick remains the same. The celebrity, the man of God, and the national security bully are still at it, trying to separate us from our brains and our better angels. So the antidote might go something like this: hang on to our brains. Consult regularly with our better angels. And Pappy can keep his damn biscuits, thank you.

Ben Fountain, author of Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk, is writing a series of 2016 election articles for the Guardian
Last edited by Bisbee on Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: America's Fascism

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Several times in the first third of the article is mentioned the money aspect, that the leaders somehow get bucks from having done all this leading. Then we see this
and that it is the Republican Party and Donald Trump, in particular, who will safeguard their way of life.”
There follows the excellent analysis of how fascism may take hold. I think the average voter will fall prey to the fire hose technique of the right and just not be able to process all that history.

However, I think it will be fairly easy to show how 45 and the R's who support him have ripped off their followers. And then we mock those followers. I don't think they'll vote. Their numbers decrease with every piece of actual truth that penetrates their bubbles, and the numbers of voters who may consider the R people to be a solution, well, those numbers also decrease with every nugget of documented truth.

I suppose it may very well depend upon which way the pundits spin it to catch the really lazy voters.

CDFingers
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I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines
Come to Daddy on an inside straight: I got no chance of losin' this time

Re: America's Fascism

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Bisbee wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:38 pm BTW, Understand (as the article explains) that limiting abortion is no longer about population control (increasing white people while decreasing others) but actually a misguided attempt to control women and subvert feminism: the idea that women are equal to men in intelligence and deserve positions of power and decision-making in corporate boardrooms and civil society. Misogyny is a blunt instrument much like racism.
A couple of months ago I made a snarky comment about abortion ban being a reverse replacement conspiracy. I was just being snarky, joking around. Should have known... Some right wing nutjobs actually believe that white women will now breed their way to stopping the "brown wave". No more abortions will bring hoards of right wing, Christian, white women who are dumb and compliant.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: America's Fascism

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CDFingers wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:08 pm Several times in the first third of the article is mentioned the money aspect, that the leaders somehow get bucks from having done all this leading. Then we see this
and that it is the Republican Party and Donald Trump, in particular, who will safeguard their way of life.”
There follows the excellent analysis of how fascism may take hold. I think the average voter will fall prey to the fire hose technique of the right and just not be able to process all that history.

However, I think it will be fairly easy to show how 45 and the R's who support him have ripped off their followers. And then we mock those followers. I don't think they'll vote. Their numbers decrease with every piece of actual truth that penetrates their bubbles, and the numbers of voters who may consider the R people to be a solution, well, those numbers also decrease with every nugget of documented truth.

I suppose it may very well depend upon which way the pundits spin it to catch the really lazy voters.

CDFingers
But there are those voters which will vote for the candidate or party, no matter what is exposed.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: America's Fascism

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Maybe Republicans can call up Mitt, learn a thing or two from the Mormons about creating a White Wave through babies.

Of course all those white Christian women and their babies will have to be shielded form the corrupting influences of the Internet. Maybe the Mormons can also learn a thing or two from the Chinese.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: America's Fascism

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FrontSight wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:50 am While our path is disturbing, its far from the early days of the Nazi's. The rhetoric is much the same, the tactics are much the same, but the big difference is the people. Germans were absolutely destitute and desperate. Our living conditions and economics are nothing like Germany in the 1930's. Even Venezuela is in 500% better shape than the Germans were back then.

So while the "Nazi's" are acting like "Nazi's", the populace isn't anywhere near that desperate. So while they're clearly capable of tolerating some fuckery (the Trump Administration), we're WAY too divided for anyone to have Hitler type success in taking over the government.
The 70 something greeter at Wal-Mart, having lost most everything in the bubble pop of 2000 and everything else in 08, and the 4000 living in boxes and under tarps just in Portland alone might disagree.

Things absolutely suck for those trying to exist minimum wage paycheck to minimum wage paycheck. And if they happen to be trying to service a student loan and feed a kid and god forbid see a physician...

They are well and truly fucked.

My son doesn't believe for an instant that we are going to be able to vote our way out of this mess... He observes that the old fucks running this show have their eyes fixed firmly on the rear view and are blind to what is coming. The new right is salivating at the stupid on the left.

Fortunately spouse and kids have Japanese passports ... and daughter married a Dane to boot. They have someplace to go. I'll just follow them.

Edit:
Oh wait! Just got an email from none other than Sir Leonard Valentinovich Blavatnik himself! He wants to give me... well, read yourself;
Hello,

I'm Sir Leonard Valentinovich Blavatnik a British businessman, investor, and philanthropist and president (Access Industries). I gave away 20 percent of my personal wealth to charity. And I also pledged to give away the rest of 20% this year 2022 to Individuals.. I have decided to donate €3.000,000.00(Three million euros)to you. If you are interested in my donation, do contact me for more info.
So I'm set for the remainder of my soon to be not-so-misereable-actually-rather-comfortable life...I guess.
Yea!!
Three Million Euros ain't half bad. I can live with that.

See ya!
Last edited by rolandson on Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Subliterate Buffooery of the right...
Literate Ignorance of the left...
We Are So Screwed

Re: America's Fascism

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FrontSight wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:50 am While our path is disturbing, its far from the early days of the Nazi's. The rhetoric is much the same, the tactics are much the same, but the big difference is the people. Germans were absolutely destitute and desperate. Our living conditions and economics are nothing like Germany in the 1930's. Even Venezuela is in 500% better shape than the Germans were back then.

So while the "Nazi's" are acting like "Nazi's", the populace isn't anywhere near that desperate. So while they're clearly capable of tolerating some fuckery (the Trump Administration), we're WAY too divided for anyone to have Hitler type success in taking over the government.
This statement is not accurate. By 1933, Germany was actually in a better state than in 1922.
"Rights aren’t rights if someone can take them away. They’re privileges. That’s all we’ve ever had in this country is a bill of temporary privileges."--George Carlin

Re: America's Fascism

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Leonard Blavatnik
Accused of Illegal enrichment at the expense of Russian taxpayers due to his close relations to the Kremlin; corruption of the Western elites in the interests of the Putin regime.
Never trust a Russian oligarch who is able to buy British titles and multiple foreign citizenships... Especially not Russian oligarchs using IP addresses originating from Nigeria.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: America's Fascism

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Bisbee wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:16 pm Leonard Blavatnik
Accused of Illegal enrichment at the expense of Russian taxpayers due to his close relations to the Kremlin; corruption of the Western elites in the interests of the Putin regime.
Never trust a Russian oligarch who is able to buy British titles and multiple foreign citizenships... Especially not Russian oligarchs using IP addresses originating from Nigeria.
Oh, you're just a wealth of happiness aren't you Bisbee?
Subliterate Buffooery of the right...
Literate Ignorance of the left...
We Are So Screwed

Re: America's Fascism

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Good article - if depressing. I kind of feel we are on a slow train, inevitably getting there. Dems keep playing by the old rules that are obsolete. About the only think that give me any hope is that there are more of “us” than “them.”
The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: America's Fascism

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INVICTVS138 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:48 pm About the only think that give me any hope is that there are more of “us” than “them.”
I wish I could share that belief, but outside of the LGC about half of the people I know either think there is no real threat from the right or they admit the threat but refuse to do anything about it.
100+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: America's Fascism

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You could see the extremist right vitriolic speak emerge when Obama got elected.
It just took the right kinda guy to bring out the demons hiding in the darkness out to the light.
They've always been lurking out there. If you held your nose out in the right direction you could pick up a wiff of the stench. Now its overflowed the sewers.
My Name is Ernesto Inigo Juan Montoya and I approve this message.

Re: America's Fascism

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They tried it before with the Business Plot. Failed. But no one swung for it. Aaaaand they're back. We've got 'em by the short and curlies this time, though. I think the kitchen light has been turned on and we're stompin'.

CDFingers
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I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines
Come to Daddy on an inside straight: I got no chance of losin' this time

Re: America's Fascism

21
One philosophy professor's opinion, not mine. If you read left leaning publications they talk of the "signs" of approaching Nazism and fascism, and if you read right leaning publications they talk of the "signs" of approaching anarchy and communism. If we were ever going to fall for totalitarianism of the right or left it would likely have been during the age of the totalitarians, starting with the Depression and beyond. We had communists and fascists and other anti-government groups and our federal and state governments survived.

In Italy Mussolini was appointed prime minister in 1922, in Spain Primo de Rivera in 1923 and in 1932 in Germany Hitler's National Socialist German Workers Party was the largest party in the Reichstag. What major US cities or states do fascist groups currently control, none. When fringe groups start winning elections and controlling cities, counties and states in the US, then I'll talk about a potential threat.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: America's Fascism

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highdesert wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:09 am In Italy Mussolini was appointed prime minister in 1922, in Spain Primo de Rivera in 1923 and in 1932 in Germany Hitler's National Socialist German Workers Party was the largest party in the Reichstag. What major US cities or states do fascist groups currently control, none. When fringe groups start winning elections and controlling cities, counties and states in the US, then I'll talk about a potential threat.
In Italy Mussolini was appointed after a march on Rome by his followers and a military coup very similar to the insurrection we saw on Jan. 6.

In Germany he Nazis became the largest party by consolidating and absorbing the other Rightwing parties and then outlawing the liberal parties. Even then to get Hitler in as chancellor, Hermann Goring as president of the Reichstag had to ignore the current chancellor's call to dissolve the Reichstag and call for new elections. When elections were called many other parties were not allowed to cast ballots or were not counted, so the Nazis became the majority party.

In Spain Primo de Rivera was appointed by King after a military coup similar to Mussolini. This eventually led to the Spanish Civil War with Franco assuming the role of dictator and the abolishment of the monarchy. Which was later restored after Franco's death.

Right now we are seeing the Rightwing Repugs taking more control in many states and a swing to more extremism even in the local levels. Just look at the Texas Repugs convention platform. They are sitting on local school boards, county, city offices along with state offices. They are outrageous in their platform, but the voters vote for them.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/19/opinions ... index.html

These Rightwing idiots control many of the local governments and gaining more control in many states. It would take one major election for them to control congress and they already effectively control the Federal Judiciary. Let them get a solid majority in congress and we will have a federal government in a standstill ripe for a dictatorship.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: America's Fascism

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TrueTexan wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:45 am
highdesert wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:09 am In Italy Mussolini was appointed prime minister in 1922, in Spain Primo de Rivera in 1923 and in 1932 in Germany Hitler's National Socialist German Workers Party was the largest party in the Reichstag. What major US cities or states do fascist groups currently control, none. When fringe groups start winning elections and controlling cities, counties and states in the US, then I'll talk about a potential threat.
In Italy Mussolini was appointed after a march on Rome by his followers and a military coup very similar to the insurrection we saw on Jan. 6.

In Germany he Nazis became the largest party by consolidating and absorbing the other Rightwing parties and then outlawing the liberal parties. Even then to get Hitler in as chancellor, Hermann Goring as president of the Reichstag had to ignore the current chancellor's call to dissolve the Reichstag and call for new elections. When elections were called many other parties were not allowed to cast ballots or were not counted, so the Nazis became the majority party.

In Spain Primo de Rivera was appointed by King after a military coup similar to Mussolini. This eventually led to the Spanish Civil War with Franco assuming the role of dictator and the abolishment of the monarchy. Which was later restored after Franco's death.

Right now we are seeing the Rightwing Repugs taking more control in many states and a swing to more extremism even in the local levels. Just look at the Texas Repugs convention platform. They are sitting on local school boards, county, city offices along with state offices. They are outrageous in their platform, but the voters vote for them.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/19/opinions ... index.html

These Rightwing idiots control many of the local governments and gaining more control in many states. It would take one major election for them to control congress and they already effectively control the Federal Judiciary. Let them get a solid majority in congress and we will have a federal government in a standstill ripe for a dictatorship.

The European dictators were appointed by the heads of state, Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg who was president. The left labels the right as "fascists" and the right labels the left as "communists" or "anarchists", labels are easy to throw around. It's just cheap politics like it's always been.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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