I swap brands of primers without worrying about it (except in shotgun shells!) but personally I'd be a little worried about magnum vs standard pistol, just because I don't know how much of a difference there is. CD is right though, the best way would be to load up a few and compare. I'd say if you do that, start LOW with your charge, and it would probably be best to use a chronograph to see what your velocities are. It also depends on the firearm I guess... if it's rated for +P ammo you aren't (probably) going to blow it up, but if it's grandpappy's shot out old duty weapon...
Please note, I'm not a lawyer or a reloading expert!
-Crow

sikacz wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:16 am

Rust wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:17 pm
If somebody is going to start reloading, for those calibers, buy small pistol primers. Standard or magnum, whatever you can find. Loads can be adjusted for either primer.
Study up with the material on line. I have used standard small rifle primers in lieu of the mag. pistol with good results.

I didn’t realize until recently through these discussions that magnum small pistol primers and small pistol primers were interchangeable. Can you just briefly expand on the difference between the two?

Ditto that. Small rifle primers can also fit the pocket of a small pistol ? I wouild imagine there's data somewhere for the dimensions?

Powders are hard to find, primers are hard to find, so the one exact combination you might want can be even harder to find. There are a lot of different combinations that can work well in a given cartridge.

Look at 357 magnum, for example.
The Hodgdon website has data for Hodgdon, Winchester, and IMR powders. They use magnum powders for all, even for light, low pressure loads with fast powders.
Speer manuals show magnum primers with some powders, standard primers with others. Speer used to recommend magnum primers with 2400. Now they recommend standard.
An older Accurate powder manual used standard primers for all their powders. Their latest data uses magnums for all.

38 Special is similar. Most data is for standard primers, but not all. Speer and Sierra used to show both, with different ppwders. Hodgdon Data Manual #26 used standard primers for standard loads, and magnums for +P loads.

In both 38 and 357, there are some powders that require a magnum primer. There are some powders that I would be hesitant to use with a magnum primer. There are some powders for which you can find reliable, professional data with both types.

Be careful about what you learn from laymen on the internet. Do research, switching to a magnum primer on an already hot load can be very dangerous.

The only way to measure pressure is with lab equipment we dont have. We can get some indications by inspection of spent brass and primers, but that assumes a primer that will show trouble when the cartridge is getting high pressure.

But, magnum primers are harder to flatten and intended to handle higher pressures, so substituting them takes away a valuable indication of problems with pressure. Here is a good article.

As you start reloading I strongly suggest you exactly follow the load data from reliable sources. If you decide you need more power, get a bigger gun.

https://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

Crow wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:05 am I swap brands of primers without worrying about it (except in shotgun shells!) but personally I'd be a little worried about magnum vs standard pistol, just because I don't know how much of a difference there is. CD is right though, the best way would be to load up a few and compare. I'd say if you do that, start LOW with your charge, and it would probably be best to use a chronograph to see what your velocities are. It also depends on the firearm I guess... if it's rated for +P ammo you aren't (probably) going to blow it up, but if it's grandpappy's shot out old duty weapon...
Please note, I'm not a lawyer or a reloading expert!
-Crow

+P ain't shit. :-) I can shell targets over the horizon with my Ruger GP100 it's so rugged. And my old model Vaquero in .45LC, too. I packed some 250 grainers over 10 grains of Unique in that bad boy. Dang, that was stout. Gun goes, "Dude. Is that all you got?" I still have five or six of them as yet unfired in case of T-Rex, eh. Good to have done yet smart to not repeat. Feel the sting.

CDFingers

sikacz wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:13 am I fear this substitution idea requires a lot of experience. Perhaps if I run into primers other than what I need I should seek out a trade. LoL.

It can be dangerous, like anything else with reloading, if you're not careful.

When using small pistol magnum primers in loads that require regular small pistol primers, I typically don't go beyond the mid-point of the powder charges listed in the book(s). That's because magnum primers are hotter, and for good reason.

However, for harder-to-ignite powders like H110 and W296 (same powder, actually, just different names), you need to use magnum primers just to ignite the powder reliably.

If using the mag. primer means reducing powder charge, then all the better to save on that precious commodity. The admonition to start low will work with primer swaps as with any other component change.

Every manufacturer probably does it a little differently.

Don't have any examples of Winchester large pistol of recent manufacture but the old stuff says goose or gander, good to go. The small stuff had a different take.

Notice they used to be merely flammable, but now, explosive!

CCI Small Rifle 5.56mm NATO-Spec Military Primers #41 Box of 1000 (10 Trays of 100)
In stock now. 100 bucks

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301170074

Tulammo primers, 5.56-rated (same as CCI #41). Box of 1000 was $14. And they worked perfectly in my buddy's AR and someone's Mini-14.

The pricing has really gotten insane.

CowboyT wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:06 pm Tulammo primers, 5.56-rated (same as CCI #41). Box of 1000 was $14. And they worked perfectly in my buddy's AR and someone's Mini-14.

The pricing has really gotten insane.

Hopefully prices will come down some. It’s $9 to $10 per hundred right now here. I remember seeing how cheap it was before pandemic and available at local sporting goods stores.

When things start getting back to normal, I hope that fellow marksmanship devotees learn from this and stock up some, for rainy days like what we're seeing now.

It wasn't that long ago that I was getting Berger VLD 7mm hunting bullets for $28 per box of 100. And Hornady BTHP Match bullets (.30 cal, for the M1 Garand) for $18/100. Yes, you read that right. Midway was practically having to give away bullets. It was great. :-)

It's not like bullets will go bad, nor brass.

CDFingers

I guess I should have bought those CCI Small Rifle 5.56mm NATO-Spec Military Primers I posted up thread. They disappeared within hours. Had my finger on the buy button but wasn't what I wanted. Thought I'd not be greedy.

I keep running into deals on small pistol primers cept these places want me to buy 250 bucks worth of stuff. And I am not familiar with them. so NOT.

CowboyT wrote:For .38 Special, my go-to powders are Bullseye and Titegroup. W231 is another popular, and good, one.

For .357 Magnum, I have two loads. One is a "lighter" load using Bullseye, and another is more of a fuller-power load using 2400.

My two favourite reloading manuals are Lyman's and Lee's. I find that I use Lyman's book somewhat more often, but Lee's book has a lot of good info in there, too, once you get past Richard Lee's rather gratuitous self-promotion. :-) Not that he isn't right, but it's still pretty gratuitous.

Hornady's book also has good info in there in some areas that Lyman and Lee don't go into so much. It's proved valuable to me as a shooter, too.

This is almost verbatim what I do. I have a lot of Win 231 on hand for .38, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt (light loads). It’s a very versatile propellant for normal velocity handgun rounds. I also use universal.


I like Aliiant 2400 for its versatility in magnum loads but I’m almost out and can’t find anymore. I’ve had to settle for H-110 for near max .357 loads - I’ve been able to find it during the pandemic. It’s good for max loads but not as versatile as 2400.

I have the last 2 Lyman manual editions. These are what I use to sanity check any “internet loads.” I also get a decent amount of loads off the hogden website, and again, I sanity check them. I also get loads out of American Handgunner - but these are generally only John Taffin loads & he’s a trusted source. You’d think in this day of websites you could get away without a bound manual - but I’d advise against it. You are paying for decades of experience & testing in those manuals & I like to read nerdy shit like that anyways. The Lyman 50th Ed is a pretty good read.


I scored about 5000 primers of different types during 2020 but zero luck in 2021. I only have 1000 LP so that’s where I’m going to concentrate my efforts in the new year. I’m probably set up for about a decade of .357/.38 at my pace of about 600 rounds loaded a year. I’m only shooting about 1000 rds over the last few years and I make up the difference with factory ammo + maybe 200 rounds of shotgun (I stack those high when cheap.)

When I was competing USPSA it was 3-5000 rounds a year and that’s unobtainable right now. 1000 rounds keeps me decently proficient for self- defense and hunting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, even Hodgdon advises H110 as the "no wimps, please!" powder. Yes, that's a direct quote from them. That and its sister powder, W296, really need max loads. I do use H110/W296 for certain loads, but yeah, 2400 is so versatile. You can even use it in rifle cartridges for lighter marksmanship practice loads.

sikacz wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:10 am

papajim2jordan wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:43 am Best to not think of them as interchangeable, rather as a substitute with caveats.
The idea is that they (mag. primers) are "hotter" either containing more of the good stuff or something like that so as to better light heavier charges or more difficult to start spherical powders. Lighter loading to compensate for the higher pressure associated with the mag. primer is a way around the issue, at least in theory.
I have used standard small rifle primers in lieu of the mag. pistol with good results.

Are the small rifle less likely to damage the firearm? That’s my biggest worry. I don’t want the firearm damaged or myself. I didn’t realize they would fit in the same pockets either.

Small rifle and small pistol same width and height. Have used them for magnum pistol loads in .357 because that’s what I had. Any harm to gun or shooter won’t be from just the primer. Rifle primers are said to have thicker cups and therefore more resistant to pin and pressure. I’m not sure if I could tell the difference in mechanical strength, but I’m pretty sure they are. That said, I never had a problem with them not working in any handgun I loaded with them.