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Russians have not decided to make one and even if they did I thought there was a ban currently on Russian weapons. And I doubt there’s too many US manufacturers that would want to make a gun based on the old Soviet round. AK round weapon is different since there is already a large following even in the US.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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sikacz wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:31 am Russians have not decided to make one and even if they did I thought there was a ban currently on Russian weapons. And I doubt there’s too many US manufacturers that would want to make a gun based on the old Soviet round. AK round weapon is different since there is already a large following even in the US.
The 7.62x25mm Tokarev cartridge has been commercially loaded for decades in the U.S. along with a number of other countries. The reason I don't think many Russians have a carbine in the caliber is due to Russian gun laws and how rifle ownership there is treated,which if memory serves requires dealing with a whole lot of red tape and added expense.

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sikacz wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:31 am Russians have not decided to make one and even if they did I thought there was a ban currently on Russian weapons. And I doubt there’s too many US manufacturers that would want to make a gun based on the old Soviet round. AK round weapon is different since there is already a large following even in the US.

Here is a bit more food for thought on the 7.62x25mm Tokarev when compared to more modern bottle necked cartridges... https://youtu.be/vLCsQkEL9eQ

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I am fascinated by this round. I would love to have a gun that shoots it. But since there are others that I want, I don't know if this will ever happen.
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Hiker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:31 am I am fascinated by this round. I would love to have a gun that shoots it. But since there are others that I want, I don't know if this will ever happen.
I've been thinking about finding a beat to hell 91/30 and seeing what it would take to convert it to take the smaller round. Maybe trim the barrel down to 17 or 16.5 inches. Def. something to look at

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With the ban on Russian ammo, the main attraction to the cartridge went away. That being the cost. At one point it was nearly half the price of 9mm...we're talking dirt freaking cheap. Now that it's the same cost or more, it has less appeal. It's not a bad cartridge in a SMG or carbine, and has a very flat trajectory.
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FrontSight wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:38 pm With the ban on Russian ammo, the main attraction to the cartridge went away. That being the cost. At one point it was nearly half the price of 9mm...we're talking dirt freaking cheap. Now that it's the same cost or more, it has less appeal. It's not a bad cartridge in a SMG or carbine, and has a very flat trajectory.
That's what I really like about it, not the cost but the capability. and the Russian ammo ban isn't on Russian calibers it's on imports from Russia. Plenty of companies abroad load the cartridge and import it.

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I just don’t see it. I mean I’ve shot CZ’s in Tokarev and probably at least one Tokarev, fine guns and good shooting. Producing a new rifle using that cartridge just doesn’t seem that profitable. I don’t think the Tokarev round has anywhere near the market penetration of a 9mm Luger for instance. That’s just my perspective, not that I don’t think the idea is bad. Perhaps if someone had come up with one fifty years ago. There were undoubtedly reasons the Tokarev round was replaced with another. Ballistics isn’t the only driving force in ammo selection for a weapon.

That said nothing is stopping someone here from making one.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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Ridge83 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:23 am With the fact that pistol caliber carbines have seen a big resurgence in the past few years. Why haven't we seen semi-auto and/or bolt action carbines chambered for rounds like the 7.62x25mm Tokarev ? It's a decent cartridge with a lot of good things going for it.
Simplest answer: there's not enough of a perceived market for it.

Longer answer:

We have 9mm Parabellum ("Luger") already, and in noncorrosive, Boxer-primed, brass cases, usually at a very affordable per-round price. It's also going to be a bit more powrful than the 7.62x25 Tokarev. Not saying the Tok is bad, but the 9mm makes more sense in a handgun, which is both rounds' primary usage.

I see someone else mentioned dirt-cheap milsurp ammo and how it's dried up. That was also the appeal of two very famous WWII rifles, the British SMLE and the Russo-Soviet Mosin-Nagant. Now, even if you can find milsurp ammo, it's considerably more expensive, so we might as well go with the good ol' 'Murrican standbys of .30-06, .308 Win, .270 Win, and so on. The appeal of those two rifles is now, therefore, largely nostalgic and much less practical.

And then there's the levergun market in handgun chamberings such as .38/357, the various .44's, or .45 Colt. With some practice, one can work a levergun fast enough to where you think they're shooting a semi-auto. Plus, leverguns are 'MURRICAN! So, they remain popular. Among hoplophiles in this country, I'm not aware of very many who don't sometimes think of slingin' that ol' truty Winchester mounted across their backs.

This is why it doesn't appear to make financial sense for someone to develop a semi-auto in something like the Tok vs. just sticking with 9mm Para/Luger.
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CowboyT wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:25 pm
Ridge83 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:23 am With the fact that pistol caliber carbines have seen a big resurgence in the past few years. Why haven't we seen semi-auto and/or bolt action carbines chambered for rounds like the 7.62x25mm Tokarev ? It's a decent cartridge with a lot of good things going for it.
Simplest answer: there's not enough of a perceived market for it.

Longer answer:

We have 9mm Parabellum ("Luger") already, and in noncorrosive, Boxer-primed, brass cases, usually at a very affordable per-round price. It's also going to be a bit more powrful than the 7.62x25 Tokarev. Not saying the Tok is bad, but the 9mm makes more sense in a handgun, which is both rounds' primary usage.

I see someone else mentioned dirt-cheap milsurp ammo and how it's dried up. That was also the appeal of two very famous WWII rifles, the British SMLE and the Russo-Soviet Mosin-Nagant. Now, even if you can find milsurp ammo, it's considerably more expensive, so we might as well go with the good ol' 'Murrican standbys of .30-06, .308 Win, .270 Win, and so on. The appeal of those two rifles is now, therefore, largely nostalgic and much less practical.

And then there's the levergun market in handgun chamberings such as .38/357, the various .44's, or .45 Colt. With some practice, one can work a levergun fast enough to where you think they're shooting a semi-auto. Plus, leverguns are 'MURRICAN! So, they remain popular. Among hoplophiles in this country, I'm not aware of very many who don't sometimes think of slingin' that ol' truty Winchester mounted across their backs.

This is why it doesn't appear to make financial sense for someone to develop a semi-auto in something like the Tok vs. just sticking with 9mm Para/Luger.
Glad you fleshed out the point I made! LoL!
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Ridge83 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:14 am Both of you have your points but I'm still not giving up on the idea. As for lever action rifles. Who wouldn't want something like a Ruger 96 in a lighter caliber than .44 Magnum but a heavier caliber than .22 Magnum ?
As I noted previously, make one. I’m not saying you should give up on it. I encourage you wholeheartedly to pursue it.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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I've been following this thread. Love the idea of light carbine with a soft shooting cartridge. 357 lever gun fits the bill for me. Also, I recently picked up a Ruger American Ranch bolt action in 7.62x39mm. 16 inch barrel. Iron sights. Lots of fun to shoot. We walk around a lot while deer hunting, so I'm working on making this my deer rifle. Hilly and wooded here, so long shots aren't the norm. Right now, I'm just shooting the crap out of this to see how far out I can consistently hit 8" circle with iron sights. My new project.
RugerAmericanRanch_x39.jpg
Ruger American Ranch, 7.62x39mm, iron sights.

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cooper wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:11 pm I've been following this thread. Love the idea of light carbine with a soft shooting cartridge. 357 lever gun fits the bill for me. Also, I recently picked up a Ruger American Ranch bolt action in 7.62x39mm. 16 inch barrel. Iron sights. Lots of fun to shoot. We walk around a lot while deer hunting, so I'm working on making this my deer rifle. Hilly and wooded here, so long shots aren't the norm. Right now, I'm just shooting the crap out of this to see how far out I can consistently hit 8" circle with iron sights. My new project.

RugerAmericanRanch_x39.jpg
Ruger American Ranch, 7.62x39mm, iron sights.


Sweet looking rig. I wish more companies would bring out bolt actions with good GI style sights. But thankfully there will always be the aftermarket to address that need.

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This thread got me thinking about what it would take to build a Tokarev 7.62x25 rifle. It’s an interesting problem.
The Mauser C96 Broomhandle uses a 7.63x25 round very similar. I think the Tokarev was sort of developed from that concept. Some enterprising person could take a Mauser beater and turn it into a rifle. Might be interesting.
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sikacz wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:44 am This thread got me thinking about what it would take to build a Tokarev 7.62x25 rifle. It’s an interesting problem.
The Mauser C96 Broomhandle uses a 7.63x25 round very similar. I think the Tokarev was sort of developed from that concept. Some enterprising person could take a Mauser beater and turn it into a rifle. Might be interesting.

The Tokarev round is much hotter though. Not saying it couldn't be done, just saying that it would require a bit more homework to keep things safe.

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Ridge83 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:41 am
sikacz wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:44 am This thread got me thinking about what it would take to build a Tokarev 7.62x25 rifle. It’s an interesting problem.
The Mauser C96 Broomhandle uses a 7.63x25 round very similar. I think the Tokarev was sort of developed from that concept. Some enterprising person could take a Mauser beater and turn it into a rifle. Might be interesting.

The Tokarev round is much hotter though. Not saying it couldn't be done, just saying that it would require a bit more homework to keep things safe.
No doubt.
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I’ve had similar musings “in reverse” about .30 Carbine. I’ve wanted an old WW2 or Korea M1A and I really think a modern, semi-auto handgun chambered in .30 would be interesting. (Something like the AMT automag but in a modern polymer frame & with a capacity of 20 rds.) I guess this was kind of eclipsed as a concept by the Ruger 5.7 pistol. I think the round is a bit long for a pistol grip as well.

I know Ruger made the .30 in a Blackhawk. (I’ve only ever seen one of those in the wild.)

But again In Comparison, to the tokerev- the inexpensive factory ammo is long dried up. It’s Definitely a reloader’s cartridge.

Then I get real and think that there’s not anything .30 carbine can do that .357 out of a rifle/carbine can’t. And I’m all set up in that caliber.

I think tokerevs & the caliber are really cool, but without a source of cheap factory Russian ammo - it’s a no go for me.


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Ridge83 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:15 am
cooper wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:11 pm I've been following this thread. Love the idea of light carbine with a soft shooting cartridge. 357 lever gun fits the bill for me. Also, I recently picked up a Ruger American Ranch bolt action in 7.62x39mm. 16 inch barrel. Iron sights. Lots of fun to shoot. We walk around a lot while deer hunting, so I'm working on making this my deer rifle. Hilly and wooded here, so long shots aren't the norm. Right now, I'm just shooting the crap out of this to see how far out I can consistently hit 8" circle with iron sights. My new project.

RugerAmericanRanch_x39.jpg
Ruger American Ranch, 7.62x39mm, iron sights.


Sweet looking rig. I wish more companies would bring out bolt actions with good GI style sights. But thankfully there will always be the aftermarket to address that need.
The sights are a by NoDak Spud. The rifle is really light and easy to handle. Not sure what the flash suppressor on the end is supposed to do for this, but I bought it used set up like this.

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