Edited to correct my misunderstanding of the proposal:

A proposed initiative in Oregon would appear to virtually outlaw hunting, fishing, animal research and animal husbandry. In this doc, lines in italics would be deleted from the existing law and lines in bold added. This looks like the most virulent possible vegan bullshit!

http://oregonvotes.org/irr/2022/013text.pdf

It's right in their FAQs:

Would IP13 make hunting, fishing, and trapping illegal?

If passed, IP13 would remove the exemption for hunting, fishing, and trapping from our cruelty laws, meaning that any practice that involves the intentional injury of an animal would be criminalized. Although the practice of seeking, pursuing, and in some cases even capturing an animal would still be legally protected, the practice of killing animals would no longer be protected.

https://www.yesonip13.org/about

Time to organize the fisherman/woman and hunters and the whole tourist industry that attracts people from other states to fish and hunt in OR.

That's just plain stupid. Texas recently added new punishment for cruelty to livestock, domestic animals/pets although it took a couple or so tries to get our dumbassed guv to sign. Doesn't affect legal game or fishing.

https://www.tijerinalawfirmpc.com/2020/ ... -in-texas/

https://www.mctxdao.org/animal-cruelty

Oregon has a very open citizen's initiative process, like many western states. Just because you can get enough signatures to get on the ballot doesn't mean you can win - and it won't.

If I was a Republican looking to divide the left and mobilize the entire base, and I got skeptical of the efficacy of anti-gay, anti-trans ballot initiatives, this would be an awfully easy way to astroturf grassroots opposition to those damn libs.

You're looking at the wrong threat.

Y'all may suspect I'm having a massive giggle over here. First, it's never going to pass. Second, I haven't eaten animals for like fifty years and see them as sentient beings. I can't even think your thoughts any more. So I giggle.

CDFingers

highdesert wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:45 pm It's right in their FAQs:

Would IP13 make hunting, fishing, and trapping illegal?

If passed, IP13 would remove the exemption for hunting, fishing, and trapping from our cruelty laws, meaning that any practice that involves the intentional injury of an animal would be criminalized. Although the practice of seeking, pursuing, and in some cases even capturing an animal would still be legally protected, the practice of killing animals would no longer be protected.

https://www.yesonip13.org/about

Time to organize the fisherman/woman and hunters and the whole tourist industry that attracts people from other states to fish and hunt in OR.

I'm assuming that even if it makes the ballot, it has little chance of passing. Blood sport participants (which I mean in the nicest possible way, although I'm jealous of people who can actually catch fish, because I inevitably fail) will have lots of allies. The state, most businesses, and I suppose almost all the press except the Mercury would be against it, so yeah, hopefully it would come no where close to success.

But Washington voters passed an initiative that made my tubular magazine .22LR Marlin Model 60 rifle into an "assault weapon," so any stupid shit is possible. Not a great example since that was one provision among many in an anti-gun grab bag, and no one in power cares or was opposed to it, unlike this bonkers PETA masturbation fantasy.

I think the writers of this thought "Why ask for a pony when you can ask for a unicorn?" They probably figured it's almost as hard to get either. Just depends on how uninformed the voters are and how much they "love animals." But this does seem certain to draw the maximum possible amount of opposition campaigning. They'd have been better off leaving exceptions for fishing, research and agriculture/animal husbandry, and trying to hamstring hunting first. Then come for the fisherman...

wings wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:19 pm
If I was a Republican looking to divide the left and mobilize the entire base, and I got skeptical of the efficacy of anti-gay, anti-trans ballot initiatives, this would be an awfully easy way to astroturf grassroots opposition to those damn libs.

Wait, are you suggesting this is a false flag? That seems too clever by half.

it will never pass

I hope this doesn't pass. If it secures enough signatures it's supposed to be on the 2022 ballot, that's next November's midterm elections which tend to be draw more Republican voters than Democratic voters nationwide. I'm against animal cruelty of any kind and I don't hunt or eat a lot of meat, but this is dumb. I've been known to go fishing though.

highdesert wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:12 am I hope this doesn't pass. If it secures enough signatures it's supposed to be on the 2022 ballot, that's next November's midterm elections which tend to be draw more Republican voters than Democratic voters nationwide. I'm against animal cruelty of any kind and I don't hunt or eat a lot of meat, but this is dumb. I've been known to go fishing though.

Yeah, probably wouldn't be great timing for these guys to come on the ballot in 2022. In Virginia this month, Rs were getting INSANE levels of support in rural counties, presumably due to pro-Trump/anti-Biden/pro-Big-Lie effects vs Ds being some combination of complacent and depressed. I expect that to continue into next year's elections. This would just be the icing on the cake in moving the rural vote to nearly 100% R, and isn't going to play well in the burbs where most people like to flip a burger now and then, either.

In other words, I'm not saying Wings is *wrong,* just that the false flag idea is a bit dubious. OTOH, I suppose Lee Atwater might have played it that way!

Buck13 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:01 am

highdesert wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:12 am I hope this doesn't pass. If it secures enough signatures it's supposed to be on the 2022 ballot, that's next November's midterm elections which tend to be draw more Republican voters than Democratic voters nationwide. I'm against animal cruelty of any kind and I don't hunt or eat a lot of meat, but this is dumb. I've been known to go fishing though.

Yeah, probably wouldn't be great timing for these guys to come on the ballot in 2022. In Virginia this month, Rs were getting INSANE levels of support in rural counties, presumably due to pro-Trump/anti-Biden/pro-Big-Lie effects vs Ds being some combination of complacent and depressed. I expect that to continue into next year's elections. This would just be the icing on the cake in moving the rural vote to nearly 100% R, and isn't going to play well in the burbs where most people like to flip a burger now and then, either.

In other words, I'm not saying Wings is *wrong,* just that the false flag idea is a bit dubious. OTOH, I suppose Lee Atwater might have played it that way!

I think VA was a combination of things, Larry Sabato at UVA who has his Crystal Ball prediction website blamed it on Biden's low approval ratings which are in the 30s in VA. I think it was a combination of Youngkin keeping Trump at a distance, while pushing populist issues and 8 years of Democratic governors and at least four years of a Democratic legislature. Trump wasn't popular in VA even among Republicans. Democrats passed a lot of gun control bills that weren't popular. Youngkin of course won rural areas but more important he won the burbs which aren't sold blue or red, depends on the issues.

It might take some anti-IP13 ads that are a bit extreme like pointing out that if this ballot measure passes you'll be forced into vegan-hood. Their next measure could include banning the sale of beef, pork and even chicken, turkey and fish. It needs to point out its extremism, that no other nation has bought into this.

Heh heh. The campaign slogans for the right wing are writing themselves. Something like, "They kill human babies but save animals."

I used to live and vote in Oregon last millennium. Used to be the radical Green crowd would get an initiative on the ballot to ban the state's only nuke plant every election, only to lose every single time. Thing was, it got so expensive fighting it all the time that immediately after winning the last one, the owners declared they'd mothball it anyway. I'm sure that the guys running coal stations out on the dry side were happily egging the Greens on though.

These sorts of unpopular popular initiative nuisance campaigns have layers. Remember, the GOP has been recruiting and supporting radical challengers to Dems for years. Atwater was just one tip of the iceberg.

If it were just trapping (and poisoning) I'd be on board. Maybe they should start with that.

In CA the Initiative Process was hijacked quite awhile ago by big business and special interests. If someone gets an initiative to qualify for an upcoming ballot that pisses off another organization, the other organization will pay groups to get enough signatures to put a competing measure on the state ballot guaranteeing they both lose.

I wrote out a response but probably better to keep my opinions to my self o n this subject. You all know I hunt and I’ll leave it at that.


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