Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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I'm curious: What do people who know far more than I do think about Federal frangible rounds for home defense?

On first glance, it seems that there would still be some penetration of a target intruder, but certainly some real pain due to the sudden stop of that piece of kinetic energy. That it shouldn't go through more than one wall also has some appeal.

And, should there ever be any attempt at forensic examination of the projectile, "Oops, it's gone!" Of course, the other side of that is "how many people use frangible ammo in the first place?"

I tried a magazine or two of it in each of my HD guns, one of which is my primary EDC gun, and they ran with no issues. The barrels were sparkly afterwards, but that wasn't a thousand round test.
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Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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Depends on what you want it for. If you do indoor training for CQB or live in an apartment complex, it might be better than strong words and birdshot.

My experience is limited to CCI copper in .22LR, but I wasn't impressed. It wasn't terribly accurate and it was too light to cycle well. I've read that penetration is pretty terrible, and handguns are really only useful as holepunchers. Energy transfer isn't a reliable wound mechanic at handgun velocities. The progression of importance in defensive ammunition is accurate shot placement, 12-18" of penetration in gel, and reliable expansion - in that order.

Look at the ballistic properties of birdshot or Glasers - Lucky Gunner and Brassfetcher have lots of data, but you can find all sorts of randos on YouTube these days.

Also, don't count on frangibility as a way to cheat forensics workers. Like you said, the barrel is sparkly.

Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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When I was a paramedic, I came across a couple of GSW's from Glaser Safety Slugs. One was just like any other shot to the abdomen, he wasn't a happy camper but he might have still had some fight in him. The other was an attempted suicide, and his choice of the Glaser probably made him a lifelong vegetable rather than dead.
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Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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You would be giving yourself a serious handicap. I've never heard of any law enforcement agencies using them for duty ammo.

A big part of tactics is using cover.Do you really want them to be safer behind a piece of furniture then you would behind the same thing?

You make the other person's concealment, cover. That leads to ineffective shots and more shots.

If you are worried about what is behind your threat, you can try to shoot at angles up or down. But regardless, fewer shots fired of capable ammo is safer than an ineffective mag dump. The FBI testing has proven penetration is the key to stoping the threat.
Old School
The best upgrade for you firearm is always instruction and practice.

Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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I at times use frangible ammo in an SD handgun.

First, it is only one line of defense and generally alternate the practice and the SD rounds of the ammo. I of course make sure it functions in the particular handgun; that it loads, fires, cycles and ejects if it is in a semi-auto.

I will never be trying to capture or apprehend or arrest someone; my only goal will be to make their day so unpleasant that they decide to go bother someone else.

Modern frangible ammo does penetrate most soft targets like clothing or drywall; is generally faster, will break up causing multiple wound channels in humans and animals. It will break up if it hits metal or brick or masonry. I find it to be softer shooting and more controllable than the usual suspects and control means greater accuracy and return to POA.

It is not a perfect solution but has both advantages and disadvantages. Since my initial engagement should there be one will already have me with almost certainly the lesser caliber and most likely the fewest rounds the immediate goal is to simply move away to where better options are readily availble.
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Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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"I will never be trying to capture or apprehend or arrest someone; my only goal will be to make their day so unpleasant that they decide to go bother someone else."

I think once it gets to this point their goal will be to kill the person shooting at them and secondly not leave any witnesses.
Old School
The best upgrade for you firearm is always instruction and practice.

Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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CDFingers wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:37 am Very good for shooting steels at close range--I can attest to that.

CDFingers
We used them for training also, I have heard of using them in some specialized situations like aboard planes, but always thought they were an expensive version of a well designed bullet that had a jacket thickness and velocity that expands as intended.

Many cartridges fail the FBI testing due to lack of penetration, you need to get to vitals.
Old School
The best upgrade for you firearm is always instruction and practice.

Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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As far as I can tell, Federal Ballisticlean ammo is promoted as training ammo. They say it falls apart when it hits steel. They make no mention of performance in defensive situations. That is not like Glaser and others.
Unless I found a reliable test of the Ballisticlean, or tested it myself, it would be my last choice for defense.

Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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CDFingers wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:37 am I'd recommend against using it in self defense. If the perp is a Repub, the bullet will fragment and never get through the forehead. ;-)

CDFingers
:roflmao:

Yeah, there is that. Shot placement would be key!

Thanks for the feedback, folks! The EDC magazines are all loaded with JHP, typically 147grain, although I have some lighter hollow point stuff in the ammo safe (all of my pistols are 9mm).

My spouse rarely carries these days (most of her ventures out of the house are work-related, and work frowns on carrying a firearm for reasons). When she carries, she usually carries FMJ, but we haven't discussed her reasons in a while so I don't remember exactly.
Eventually I'll figure out this signature thing and decide what I want to put here.

Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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Nope, I don’t use frangible ammo for self defense. There is a very limited set of circumstances where I will decide to open fire. In every single one of those circumstances, I want each bullet to stop the threat as quickly as possible. Frangible pistol bullets make the achievement of that objective far less likely.
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Re: Frangible ammo as home defense round?

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CDFingers wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:40 am Probably feeding issues. Some pistols don't like JHP, so FMJ is the default. I think people who carry nines train to double tap.

CDFingers
I don't think it's feeding issues in that gun. We've gone through a couple magazines of JHP in that gun to make sure it would run.

I think it's a different issue, but one that is harder to describe here.
Eventually I'll figure out this signature thing and decide what I want to put here.

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