Some great ideas in this video. Number one is something I have preached about for years. Number 3 is something I may have been slightly guilty of.

Great points!
No ones going to hunt and fish their way out of some catastrophe here in the desert. Maybe help up in Northern AZ where there is year round flowing rivers and lakes and deer populations but like he said, gone pretty quick. But still a dangerous element will also be out there.

#2 Stores will be the last place to go to because much like the riots and hurricanes - and there will be craziness stores will be immediately cleared out.

#3 Gotta start somewhere with and why not guns. Make a point to buy something long term a month as in food, water, filters etc if not just small things, they add up. Have a large swimming pool for water which will need a cover and lots of chemicals to keep it viable and filtering componets to make drinkable water from it. Lot of gravity fed water filtration systems out there.

#4 Not bugging out, hunkering down. Luckily I live out in the boonies. Neighbors are far enough away. I'm more worried about making it back to my home if shit comes down = ammo, guns small water supply and rations in vehicle. I call is my BUG BACK BAG.

#5 Lone wolf has good points and bad.

#6 Got it. Getting solar hooked up soon. Plus don't forget solar cooking still which can also make dirty water drinkable. A hole in the ground, plastic and a large container. Learned that in Desert Survival training decades ago.

For urban survival, I keep coming back to the lessons from Sarajevo. There’s a book about it out there, and there are several blogs as well.

https://www.primalsurvivor.net/shtf-sur ... survivors/

Keep the shit(Trump) away from the fan(Oval Office).

Growing up in my town we lived in the hills and the main road to town forked and at the fork there was a house and a man building a nuclear shelter. The property was triangular and we could see him building the shelter from either road, it was quite the subject of conversation in town. Haven't been there in years, don't know if the bomb shelter survived, looked like it was completely concrete so maybe it did.

My grandparents had a fallout shelter. It was a great place to play as a kid but fuck being locked in there!

RE-fallout shelters. Personally if what I'm trying to survive is a nuclear war; I'd much rather die. I really don't want to survive a nuclear war, and then try to sort everything out. Fuck that.

That’s a good list of common “survivalist forums” fails.

However, it’s up to each person or group to determine what type of scenario they are “preparing for.” There is just no real way to prepare for a complete collapse of civilization. I think it’s a survivalist fantasy. Disaster preparedness is where I start. We’ve been through a global pandemic pandemonium and none of us had a clue how it would play out. I looks like the best collective “survival strategy” is “have a job” & “preserve our voting rights.” I still stick with have a decent non-perishable food supply you rotate can never hurt. Have a “group.” I think some sort of political Or societal upheaval or low intensity conflict is the most likely scenario in the intermediate future, but who knows? I think one of the points he’s onto is to discuss this with your family and friends and have some sort of rough outline of a plan.


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Stiff wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:11 pm For urban survival, I keep coming back to the lessons from Sarajevo. There’s a book about it out there, and there are several blogs as well.

https://www.primalsurvivor.net/shtf-sur ... survivors/

Interesting story. I remember that war and the snipers shooting anything that moved. Getting to a water source would suck. Urban warfare is the worst but that seems to be the place to fight wars.

FrontSight wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:06 pm RE-fallout shelters. Personally if what I'm trying to survive is a nuclear war; I'd much rather die. I really don't want to survive a nuclear war, and then try to sort everything out. Fuck that.

Yup. I'll take the direct hit, please.

I always find it ironic that novelist J.D. Robb, who writes the "....In Death" series has as a reference point "The Urban Wars" which consumed the world and take place in....the 2020's! It seems strangely prophetic as the first mystery was published in 1995, I think.

(the mysteries start in 2059--and J.D. Robb is the pen name used for the series by romance novelist Nora Roberts) The series is actually pretty good, kind of like Sue Grafton's Alphabet series (A is for Alibi, etc).

I was impressed by the guy's points. We directly experienced how the "Big Box" stores were EMPTIED at the beginning of the pandemic. I saw a guy at my local Costco with a flat-bed cart piled close to 8' high with bottled water and other stuff. We did load in several months worth of Mountain House and other survival/camping foods.

And I don't think I'm guilty of #3--only 8 guns, 4 handguns, 4 rifles, and 5 of them all use 9mm, 3 use .357/.38, and one uses .308.

Ya'll realize we're going through a mini-SHTF right now. And there's a chance things could get significantly weirder. The supply chain issue has become a vicious circle of self perpetuation that gets bigger every week. That is going to affect every business in America. And unless something stops that "reentry phenomenon" of the supply chain getting worse because the supply chain is getting worse...We cold be in for a rough go of it.

There's nothing mini about this. We're 18 months into the rotating impellers. We're just trying to avoid going full Weimar Republic here.

Nuclear fallout fades pretty quick, turns out. The really hot stuff is hot because it decays quickly - iodine, for instance. The long tail stuff, well, we're already exposed to all that. Several hundred above-ground tests since 1945, you know. They rebuilt Hiroshima and Nagasaki and last I saw, there aren't that many mutant cannibals.

Clean water, top of the list.

FrontSight wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:59 pm Ya'll realize we're going through a mini-SHTF right now. And there's a chance things could get significantly weirder. The supply chain issue has become a vicious circle of self perpetuation that gets bigger every week. That is going to affect every business in America. And unless something stops that "reentry phenomenon" of the supply chain getting worse because the supply chain is getting worse...We cold be in for a rough go of it.

Of course you're right.
The incredibly stupid and irresponsible 2017 tax "cut" (for the rich, but a tax increase for Blue states), followed by the even more incredibly stupid and irresponsible trade war with China and even Europe, followed by the withdrawal from the Paris Climate agreements, followed by the TOTAL lack of preparation and sane response to the onslaught of Covid-19, all led us to this place. In one of The Expanse episodes, the plant biologist calls it something like a simple-complex catastrophic cascade.

It’s the basic obstacle of artificial ecosystems. In a normal evolutionary environment, there’s enough diversity to cushion the system when something catastrophic happens. That’s nature. Catastrophic things happen all the time. But nothing we can build has the depth. One thing goes wrong, and there’s only a few compensatory pathways that can step in. They get overstressed. Fall out of balance. When the next one fails, there are even fewer paths, and then they’re more stressed. It’s a simple complex system. That’s the technical name for it. Because it’s simple, it’s prone to cascades, and because it’s complex, you can’t predict what’s going to fail. Or how. It’s computationally impossible.

— Praxidike Meng , fictional botanist

"Because it’s simple, it’s prone to cascades, and because it’s complex, you can’t predict what’s going to fail. Or how."

tonguengroover wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:24 pm

Stiff wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:11 pm For urban survival, I keep coming back to the lessons from Sarajevo. There’s a book about it out there, and there are several blogs as well.

https://www.primalsurvivor.net/shtf-sur ... survivors/

Interesting story. I remember that war and the snipers shooting anything that moved. Getting to a water source would suck. Urban warfare is the worst but that seems to be the place to fight wars.

Sarajevo was besieged for almost 4 years. This has the same effect as the collapse of normal product supply to a city. It’s the ultimate urban SHTF.

JIT was one of those GREAT IDEAS that JWETO (just wasn't ever thought out).

It was a wonder as long as things did arrive Just In Time but once they didn't it caused ripples to become tsunamis all over the pond.

INVICTVS138 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:18 pm That’s a good list of common “survivalist forums” fails.

However, it’s up to each person or group to determine what type of scenario they are “preparing for.” There is just no real way to prepare for a complete collapse of civilization. I think it’s a survivalist fantasy. Disaster preparedness is where I start. We’ve been through a global pandemic pandemonium and none of us had a clue how it would play out. I looks like the best collective “survival strategy” is “have a job” & “preserve our voting rights.” I still stick with have a decent non-perishable food supply you rotate can never hurt. Have a “group.” I think some sort of political Or societal upheaval or low intensity conflict is the most likely scenario in the intermediate future, but who knows? I think one of the points he’s onto is to discuss this with your family and friends and have some sort of rough outline of a plan.


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I've been prepping as much as possible for a full economic collapse. I figure that is the most likely. Which would lead to other problems domestically,that is how I could see several localized civil conflicts flare up (much like the African bush wars during the 20th), which could lead to a UN intervention. And with the U.S. in a full economic collapse while facing several internal conflicts, China and Russia would be free to make their respective moves. It's going to be interesting ladies and gents.

Remember to call Miss Utility before breaking ground on your bomb shelter site.
Nothing worse than digging your own grave.

papajim2jordan wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:33 am Remember to call Miss Utility before breaking ground on your bomb shelter site.
Nothing worse than digging your own grave.

Indeed!

Side note: Twenty-five or thirty years ago, I worked on a crew building fencing. We were contracted to build fence for a retirement home. In the process of digging holes for the posts, we cut through a fairly large bundle of what turned out to be telephone wires, some of which served the state's Lottery offices and servers, on a day when lottery ticket sales were predicted to be brisk.

Happily, the property owner's insurance got hit for that, since he was supposed to call the "Before You Dig" folks and had not.

So, yes, make that call!

sig230 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:01 pm JIT was one of those GREAT IDEAS that JWETO (just wasn't ever thought out).

It was a wonder as long as things did arrive Just In Time but once they didn't it caused ripples to become tsunamis all over the pond.

Originally JIT was called the Toyota system. What everyone took away was the JIT stuff, and not the stocking up for a rainy day stuff... Toyota has been faring much better than most other companies during the supply chain crunch, because they implemented the "whole Toyota system", not just the JIT part.

BearPaws wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:10 am

papajim2jordan wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:33 am Remember to call Miss Utility before breaking ground on your bomb shelter site.
Nothing worse than digging your own grave.

Indeed!

Side note: Twenty-five or thirty years ago, I worked on a crew building fencing. We were contracted to build fence for a retirement home. In the process of digging holes for the posts, we cut through a fairly large bundle of what turned out to be telephone wires, some of which served the state's Lottery offices and servers, on a day when lottery ticket sales were predicted to be brisk.

Happily, the property owner's insurance got hit for that, since he was supposed to call the "Before You Dig" folks and had not.

So, yes, make that call!

Not long before the pandemic, Verizon was installing their FIOS trunklines in our neighborhood, going under driveways with a "hog" but digging holes in everyone's front lawns in part to install their boxes, doing a truly shitty job covering up their work (unlike what was promised--like I believed them!) After Verizon's contractors managing to cut my sprinkler line AFTER I told them where it was, they tried to hide it. I had a shit-fit! They DID fix it. Meanwhile Verizon was ending all support for copper lines--we had had 4 and trying to FORCE their clients to go to FIOS with a worthless guarantee. Now we have...nothing from Verizon. But the worst was when they hit the gas line in front of my neighbor's house--and all the workers for the contractor vanished like rats. The FD and PD had to shut down the street and bring in PCG&E (our NG company) to fix it.

YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:49 pm
Not long before the pandemic, Verizon was installing their FIOS trunklines in our neighborhood, going under driveways with a "hog" but digging holes in everyone's front lawns in part to install their boxes, doing a truly shitty job covering up their work (unlike what was promised--like I believed them!) After Verizon's contractors managing to cut my sprinkler line AFTER I told them where it was, they tried to hide it. I had a shit-fit! They DID fix it. Meanwhile Verizon was ending all support for copper lines--we had had 4 and trying to FORCE their clients to go to FIOS with a worthless guarantee. Now we have...nothing from Verizon. But the worst was when they hit the gas line in front of my neighbor's house--and all the workers for the contractor vanished like rats. The FD and PD had to shut down the street and bring in PCG&E (our NG company) to fix it.

That's horrid. That's really horrid.

On the other hand, I'm happy that my cell phone provider is NOT Verizon. They clearly hired crappy contractors, but that ultimately boils down to that it's Verizon's fault for hiring crappy contractors (at probably low-bid deals).

BearPaws wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:14 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:49 pm
Not long before the pandemic, Verizon was installing their FIOS trunklines in our neighborhood, going under driveways with a "hog" but digging holes in everyone's front lawns in part to install their boxes, doing a truly shitty job covering up their work (unlike what was promised--like I believed them!) After Verizon's contractors managing to cut my sprinkler line AFTER I told them where it was, they tried to hide it. I had a shit-fit! They DID fix it. Meanwhile Verizon was ending all support for copper lines--we had had 4 and trying to FORCE their clients to go to FIOS with a worthless guarantee. Now we have...nothing from Verizon. But the worst was when they hit the gas line in front of my neighbor's house--and all the workers for the contractor vanished like rats. The FD and PD had to shut down the street and bring in PCG&E (our NG company) to fix it.

That's horrid. That's really horrid.

On the other hand, I'm happy that my cell phone provider is NOT Verizon. They clearly hired crappy contractors, but that ultimately boils down to that it's Verizon's fault for hiring crappy contractors (at probably low-bid deals).

More like a giant PITA. I have NEVER used Verizon for wireless because they didn't use SIM chips for the longest time. And they were always the most expensive.

Coming back to the main topic, here, or at least a reasonable-to-me tangent:
During the summer of 2021, I got to visit in person with Hiker, who has been a dear friend for over twenty years, even if we didn't get to see each other in person for years at a time. Hiker reminded me of how crucial water is to one's survival, and that I should have a supply on hand.

It took me a while to heed the advice, sadly. Oh, we have a stock of water filters--like my old Pur filter for backpacking (and filters are still available for that thing under a different brand) and a couple of "straw-type" filters for use in drinking containers--but it took me a while to get around to planning for larger-scale water purification. Now I have some Berkey filters and a couple of five-gallon food-grade buckets (a MUCH cheaper investment than a Berkey stainless-steel set-up) and a cache of 7-gallon water containers. I've had rain barrels at my house for ten years or so, and have gradually increased my capacity for untreated water, too. Total investment is probably in the $200 range, but I got some of the barrels at very low cost because I have a friend who worked for the local water company and some of their treatment chemicals come in food-grade plastic barrels.

Give some thought to having the ability to process water, folks. In a barter economy, potable water will be VERY good to have.

Solar power for gizmos has some benefits, to be sure. Harbor Freight has solar panels that will charge phones, even if the cell network is fouled locally, a signal might get through.

While browsing through some videos on YouTube, I noted that my YouTube portal had an ad for Stealth Angel products, including an assortment of pre-packed bug-home bags and emergency supply bags. Looking through the contents list, I realized that I have a lot of that stuff already (the cute little packets of water and fake Lambas not included--and yes, I made reference to The Hobbit). Do I need to buy that bag of stuff? Only to have a spare bag somewhere, after using the contents list to put what I already have together in a bag I might already have to keep it in one sort-of-readily-accessible place.

Yes: I have several filters and a dozen canteens and a few larger carry-vessels. I live walking distance between two year round creeks. I shudder to think about it, but I have gear.

CDFingers