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The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

1 by tonguengroover
I have no worries carrying a .380 for protection. What do you mean "real gun" sheesh

Snip:
September 23, 2021
By James Tarr
.380s are what you carry when you can’t carry a real gun. Or, at least, that’s what some “professionals” will tell you. Likely these were the same professionals that not too long ago were saying the same thing about 9mm. And just as likely, none of them are keeping up on ammunition improvements in this pocket pistol caliber. A caliber that was once an also-ran, but thanks to the surge in subcompact 380s, ammunition manufacturers have flooded the market with premium .380 ammunition, and this caliber is loaded with the best defensive hollow points we’ve ever had.
https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/ ... ads/451773
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

5 by Oldschool
Anyone not sure can call Underwood to ask and it is a good idea to check the manual. The .380 cartridge is ancient and SAMI specs covers the metallurgy and designs over 100 years old.

Modern guns have much better metal and better cartridge support in the chamber. Although some, especially polymer frames may be designed to that low spec to save weight.

I think the LCP manual says no +P. I have a S&W Bodyguard and they say not recommend, but do not prohibit it. That largely translates into, not designed to handle a regular diet of +P without wearing out parts. I ran a box through mine before I started carrying them with no issues. I was more concerned about feeding with the bullet shape, but it ran like a champ!
Old School
The best upgrade for you firearm is always instruction and practice.

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

6 by FrontSight
I just buy whatever is available in a JHP from a major manufacturer. I think the big boys have it well worked out. And obsessing over this load vs. that load is a waste of time in my opinion. Just pick one, make sure it works in your pistol, and carry on. I carry 1 12 round magazine with JHP's (I think I'm carrying Hornady currently), and my spare magazine has FMJ's. Just figuring, if I ever get to a reload, people are taking cover by then and the extra barrier penetration will be helpful. Or that's the theory... I still think it's much ado about nothing. Your shot placement is the only thing that is going to matter, not Federal vs Underwood vs. Hornady vs. Remington...
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

9 by FrontSight
In a gun as small as my LCP Max, I will stick with standard pressure rounds. The cycle time is exceedingly fast on these little auto's and monkeying with that is sure to compromise reliability. If you're worried about the effectiveness of the .380, either move to a 9mm, or get used to shooting your target multiple times. As the old saying goes...There is no additional paperwork for shooting the bad guy additional times.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

10 by Oldschool
Rust wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:38 pm SAAMI has no specs for 380+P.
S&W manual for the 380 Bodyguard says:
Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with internal
ballistic pressures which are in strict accordance with the specifications of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’
Institute (SAAMI)
Thanks for the correction, I was remembering the M&P Instruction manual that says "+P ammo generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety. Use of "Plus-P"ammunition may result in the need for more frequent service."
But that is of course 9mm not .380

I've shot a box of Underwood 380 +P from my bodyguard, and the brass didn't split or primers do anything unusual. I've probably hand loaded to comparable levels.

I'm confident in them, but yes, I am not going to ask for waranty service if something goes wrong. Personally, I trust Underwood and do not have any concerns, but it will need to be an individual's choice.
Old School
The best upgrade for you firearm is always instruction and practice.

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

11 by F4FEver
Guess it's time for this again.
http://www.sofrep.com/gear/the-best-han ... rld-study/

I have been carrying Underwood/Lehigh .380 Xtreme Defender for a long time..altho no real world data, the comparison to 'some' 9mm JHP out of short barrel semi autos is impressive. Good wound channel, good but not extreme penetration(like you get with some 9mm JHP..either clogged or no expansion).
.380s are what you carry when you can’t carry a real gun. Or, at least, that’s what some “professionals” will tell you.
This is pure BS, echoed by some YT cowboys who are more worried about getting paid than actually giving out real info..

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

12 by sig230
Sig%20230%20on%20stained%20glass.jpg
I have long had a slight liking for the 9mm Browning cartridge and have quite a few. My most often carried would be my Sig P230 closely followed by the S&W Bodyguard or one of my Remington RM380s.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

14 by cooper
F4FEver wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:59 am Guess it's time for this again.
http://www.sofrep.com/gear/the-best-han ... rld-study/

I have been carrying Underwood/Lehigh .380 Xtreme Defender for a long time..altho no real world data, the comparison to 'some' 9mm JHP out of short barrel semi autos is impressive. Good wound channel, good but not extreme penetration(like you get with some 9mm JHP..either clogged or no expansion).
.380s are what you carry when you can’t carry a real gun. Or, at least, that’s what some “professionals” will tell you.
This is pure BS, echoed by some YT cowboys who are more worried about getting paid than actually giving out real info..
Great video. He seems to make an argument at the end for not switching calibers unless it's to 454 Casull.

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

15 by tonguengroover
I have no worries about carrying a .380 for personal defense. The 10 to 20 foot range for any incident where I would need to protect myself I feel the cartridge will be effective enough. I'm not looking for a shoot out with bad guys at longer ranges. And besides that the courts kinda frown upon that anyway.
It also depends on the areas I am going to. If I'm going to a store or something over on my side of town where the crime rate is extremely low the .380 works, in other areas like around town it's my SP101 .357.
I use flat nose FMJ IN MY .380
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

16 by FrontSight
tonguengroover wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:24 pm I have no worries carrying a .380 for protection. What do you mean "real gun" sheesh

Snip:
September 23, 2021
By James Tarr
.380s are what you carry when you can’t carry a real gun. Or, at least, that’s what some “professionals” will tell you. Likely these were the same professionals that not too long ago were saying the same thing about 9mm. And just as likely, none of them are keeping up on ammunition improvements in this pocket pistol caliber. A caliber that was once an also-ran, but thanks to the surge in subcompact 380s, ammunition manufacturers have flooded the market with premium .380 ammunition, and this caliber is loaded with the best defensive hollow points we’ve ever had.
https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/ ... ads/451773
That mindset has some validity depending on your threat level.

The .380 is a decent defensive cartridge against human targets and is proven as such. Where it has problems is barrier penetration. Depending on what you're doing, barrier penetration can be either a big deal, or a non-issue...it just depends on what you're doing and your threat level. The .380 is an under-performer for law enforcement based almost exclusively on barrier penetration, which is why not one department in the US has ever (to the best of my knowledge) had a .380 as a general issue primary weapon for their officers. For that you do need a "real gun".
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

19 by FrontSight
featureless wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:34 pm There aren't a whole lot of self defense scenarios that will hold up well in court that start with "I had to shoot him through a wall..." Just a thought.
Sure there are... If you suddenly find yourself in a gun fight not of your making, and shooting through a barrier is what was required to end the fight, that's completely defensible.

Or put another way. If someone is shooting at you from cover/concealment, shooting through that concealment is fair play.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

20 by featureless
FrontSight wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:05 pm
featureless wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:34 pm There aren't a whole lot of self defense scenarios that will hold up well in court that start with "I had to shoot him through a wall..." Just a thought.
Sure there are... If you suddenly find yourself in a gun fight not of your making, and shooting through a barrier is what was required to end the fight, that's completely defensible.

Or put another way. If someone is shooting at you from cover/concealment, shooting through that concealment is fair play.
I guess I'm mostly trying to say, vanishingly small chance of 380 not being enough. It is incredibly unlikely I'll ever need to shoot through a wall.

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

21 by sig230
With smaller calibers; 25acp, 32acp (and 32 S&W or 32S&W Long), .380 or even 9mm Mak I tend to carry FMJ rather than hollow points. I have HP rounds available but simply trust ball in the smaller calibers more. Penetration over expansion I guess. Looking at my inventory that even holds true with S&W 38 and 38 Special.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

23 by Stiff
I have a .380 pocket pistol, for occasions where nothing but a wallet-sized pistol is appropriate. Yes it’s not 9mm, and I’d probably be outgunned by a former Army ranger turned bank robber, but I’m adequately armed against a garden variety gas station stickup or the occasional active shooter.

It still has slightly better penetration than my pocket knife, and much more effective than harsh words.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

24 by tonguengroover
F4FEver wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:29 am
tonguengroover wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:23 pm Yeah, barrier penetration. Especially with JHP's which get clogged with heaving clothing material. Which is why I only load flat nosed FMJ.
For .380 also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAxqkxkSz4k
I see those all the time at Ace Hardware. For awhile thats all they had in .40 cal. Expensive! I guess it would be good for winter time. But winter here is still shorts and a T-shirt.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: The Best Two .380 Carry Loads?

25 by F4FEver
tonguengroover wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:05 am
F4FEver wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:29 am
tonguengroover wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:23 pm Yeah, barrier penetration. Especially with JHP's which get clogged with heaving clothing material. Which is why I only load flat nosed FMJ.
For .380 also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAxqkxkSz4k
I see those all the time at Ace Hardware. For awhile thats all they had in .40 cal. Expensive! I guess it would be good for winter time. But winter here is still shorts and a T-shirt.
Lehigh Xd or Xp at Ace hardware? I envy you. I have never seen any of these(Lehigh/Underwood/BlackHlls) locally.
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