a couple of minutes ago, 8:30 pm, sitting at my desk and i hear, just out past the edge of town, what sounds like repeated magdumps of 9mm. as many as 15 shots in a row, powpowpowpowpowpowpow.... i hear this about once a week, and i realize, if the "civil" war comes i'm going to be at a severe disadvantage roughly half of the time. i don't like those odds, but don't know what to do about it. night vision scope? tracers?

First, IMO, a good pair of binoculars, with a good-sized exit pupil.
Second, a good rifle scope, with a good-sized objective lens.
What do you have for optics now?

lurker wrote:a couple of minutes ago, 8:30 pm, sitting at my desk and i hear, just out past the edge of town, what sounds like repeated magdumps of 9mm. as many as 15 shots in a row, powpowpowpowpowpowpow.... i hear this about once a week, and i realize, if the "civil" war comes i'm going to be at a severe disadvantage roughly half of the time. i don't like those odds, but don't know what to do about it. night vision scope? tracers?

Night-vision & .50 BMG. Every proud boy or insurrectionist wannabe around here has a Glock and an AR15. You just need a credit card.

.50 semi-auto & night-vision/thermal steps up the game to anti-materiel & out-guns the “White supremacy, pick-up full of proud bois with ARs…”

Extra points for incendiary mix, carbide penetration AP rounds. (Legal to own outside CA)

I’ve seen what those will do to a smuggler’s ship and they are big medicine when they hit fuel.


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That is a very broad topic. I would start with a pistol with light and laser. Surefire and Streamlight are well respected brands.

Night fighting is very expensive equipment. You need to detect, identify and engage targets. Thermal is best for detection, night vision better for identifying and either to engage.

The starter kit is a good PVS-14 FOM 1800+ and an infrared laser. This will let you navigate, detect, ID and engage at moderate ranges.

This is a huge advantage over people with nothing and even playing field with similar, but weak against more sophisticated setups like thermal. But, there is a lot to learn and a lot of training to get the benefit.

Tracers start fires and are a lawsuit waiting to happen.

lurker wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:51 pm a couple of minutes ago, 8:30 pm, sitting at my desk and i hear, just out past the edge of town, what sounds like repeated magdumps of 9mm. as many as 15 shots in a row, powpowpowpowpowpowpow.... i hear this about once a week, and i realize, if the "civil" war comes i'm going to be at a severe disadvantage roughly half of the time. i don't like those odds, but don't know what to do about it. night vision scope? tracers?

I hear that all the time, any time of day, and frequently at night. Sometimes it sounds like a SWAT team is taking out a Mexican drug cartel...

But it's just the town police range. It's outdoors and in a valley near the Passaic River, down behind a seriously over-priced Greek restaurant.

something like this, 6mm pupil.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-ne ... cle-s.html
and this: https://buyospreyglobal.com/core-riflescope-3-9x40-mdg/



pvs-14? $3-4-9k. ouch.

Rust wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:41 pm First, IMO, a good pair of binoculars, with a good-sized exit pupil.
Second, a good rifle scope, with a good-sized objective lens.
What do you have for optics now?

Nautical binocs are really good for night viewing without electronics due to the sophisticated coatings. 7x50 is the best for full size. Plenty of magnification, wide field of view, and most (the better ones) come with a very accurate illuminated compass you view through the lens.

Optics need light, they are good for dawn to dusk and nightfall as long as you are looking at areas with light like moon lit fields or areas near street lamps. But, fighters stay in the shadows, to detect them you have 4 choices:
1. Illuminate the shadows with visable light. This is fine when you need to engage, but horrible otherwise as it broadcasts your location.
2. Illuminate the shadows with infrared light. Requires NV to observe, invisible to those without NV, but broadcasts position to anyone with NV.
3. Passive NV, if your equipment is high enough quality you can see a lot and do not need to use an IR illuminator.
4. Thermal is totally passive so very stealthy, best at detection as warm bodies stick out. Only downside is it dosen't see through windows like NV can.

Night fighting is for the well equipped, unless you can dominate you stay hidden and run away.
A pistol with laser light let's you defend yourself, a rifle with red dot and light is better.
Very dim red lights will let you move around, like the red helmet lights soldiers use.
If you can only afford one piece of night vision get a Thermal viewer or scope that doubles as a viewer to detect and avoid. Thermal of minimum quality worth having starts at about $2.5k.

We've lived in the middle of nowhere for about 7 years now with the nearest town about as many miles away. On the street we used to live on in the big city, a young police officer was murdered by a dope head late last year. It used to be so quiet, especially at night. Sobering to realize that I've made it to the age I am largely by luck. The only gunfire I hear now is my own. Till buck season, anyway.

https://www.odmp.org/officer/reflection ... johnson/75

.

Good article on NV FYI

https://www.policemag.com/342527/matchi ... ur-mission

And it may not be what you think. It is not that uncommon for idiots, especially when drinking, to do a mag dump into the ground or in the air.

I just put up a sign, "Ask me about Amway," and I never get anyone coming 'round.

There's always motion-activated sprinklers. And a light comes on.

CDFingers

Lurker,

I've looked into it casually. It's a lot of money to set up for seeing in the night without a flashlight. Night vision is impressive but suffers from the same concealment issues as day vision. Thermal is great in that it sees heat but to actually identify, it's ridiculously expensive. To really make it work, you'd need both and something to mount it to and time using it. I'll just stick with the old flashlight for now.

https://www.streamlight.com/products/product-series/tlr

I have a bunch of the TLR-2 and love them on full size pistols, when I got mine the TLR-7 wasn't out yet. Find something that fits your pistol and needs.

Carrots. The alternative to expensive flashlights and fancy goggles. The crunching may betray your position, however. Use with caution.

papajim2jordan wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:37 pm Carrots. The alternative to expensive flashlights and fancy goggles. The crunching may betray your position, however. Use with caution.

I read this and thought CDFingers had hacked your account.

Inherited some old Russian light-intensification optics a ways back. It was not good. Quickly decided that for practical purposes, high intensity illumination was preferable. Rig the house with floodlights with overlapping coverage, so that any hostiles have to take out more than one to approach under cover. With the lights pointing out, they have a harder time seeing you - tie it to security cameras and you've got a good record for legal follow up.

Rigging a security camera system in IR might be more subtle and elegant, but I'm not sure that's the right approach here. Klaxons are more my style.

YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:07 pm

Rust wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:41 pm First, IMO, a good pair of binoculars, with a good-sized exit pupil.
Second, a good rifle scope, with a good-sized objective lens.
What do you have for optics now?

Nautical binocs are really good for night viewing without electronics due to the sophisticated coatings. 7x50 is the best for full size. Plenty of magnification, wide field of view, and most (the better ones) come with a very accurate illuminated compass you view through the lens.

I see that Cabela's offers a Bushnell 7X50 for about two bucks fifty. I used to think of Bushnell as a decent brand, and others in the Cabela's site are five or six times that much money.

I can see justifying that if I lived on five or ten (or more) acres. In my little subdivision (I have the largest lot at .6 acres, most are less than .2 acres), I have trouble justifying more binocular than what I already have.

Or maybe you can give me a better justification for it that I haven't considered?

I bought the nightfox corsac digital night vision binoculars about six months ago on a whim. Just popped the box open today
These things are cool although I have yet to test it out.
One can record video or snap a pic in night vision mode.
Since I'm in the boonies they should come in handy.
Too bad I wasn't prepared or using them when my dog was murdered by assault at night.
https://www.amazon.com/Nightfox-Digital ... B09BFZ6FZ2