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Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:30 am
by mark
I got this email from Dean:
We can both protect our second amendment rights and keep our communities safe from illegal gun sales.
I was given an "A rating" by the NRA eight times during my years as Lt. Governor and then Governor of Vermont. Guns and hunting are part of our way of life in Vermont. But I don't think any Vermonter or gun owners anywhere can argue against common sense changes to our background check system to make our communities safer and more secure.
And common sense changes are exactly what Mayors Against Illegal Guns is proposing that President Obama and Congress take action on right now. They have a two-part goal. First, we already have laws that make it illegal for guns to be sold to felons, drug abusers or the mentally ill. The problem is that states and federal agencies are not required to make sure these prohibited purchasers are included in the background check database. That must change.
Second, it's time to stop the sales of guns without a background check at all. Right now, anyone can go to a gun show and purchase as many guns as they want no questions asked, no background check, nothing.
It's common sense to fix these two loopholes and make America safer from illegal gun sales.
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:42 am
by amrev360
I felt the site wasn't specific enough the warrant my signature. Can't they create a proposal instead of the vague, "Give us some new laws that do more for background checks."
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:47 am
by mark
amrev360 wrote:I felt the site wasn't specific enough the warrant my signature. Can't they create a proposal instead of the vague, "Give us some new laws that do more for background checks."
I agree. In theory I am for what he is saying. Most of us have said that the NICS check needs to be re-worked and the database expanded to gather data from more sources. And I have no problem with the gun show thing - it really won't hurt any honest folks. If you went up to a booth and they said 'sorry, you will have to pay $15 and have a background check', would you then go 'oh, well nevermind'.? It still won't change the guys wandering around the parking lot selling their guns... and they really *are* private citizens selling their private guns.
But exactly *how* will this revamp be done? Dunno.
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:49 am
by KVoimakas
mark wrote:amrev360 wrote:I felt the site wasn't specific enough the warrant my signature. Can't they create a proposal instead of the vague, "Give us some new laws that do more for background checks."
I agree. In theory I am for what he is saying. Most of us have said that the NICS check needs to be re-worked and the database expanded to gather data from more sources. And I have no problem with the gun show thing - it really won't hurt any honest folks. If you went up to a booth and they said 'sorry, you will have to pay $15 and have a background check', would you then go 'oh, well nevermind'.? It still won't change the guys wandering around the parking lot selling their guns... and they really *are* private citizens selling their private guns.
But exactly *how* will this revamp be done? Dunno.
Yes, I would say "oh well, nevermind." Fuck that noise. A mandatory background check for all private transactions is unenforceable. A mandatory background check for all private transactions at gun shows is ridiculous. "Let's just meet up later."
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:59 am
by mark
KVoimakas wrote:mark wrote:amrev360 wrote:I felt the site wasn't specific enough the warrant my signature. Can't they create a proposal instead of the vague, "Give us some new laws that do more for background checks."
I agree. In theory I am for what he is saying. Most of us have said that the NICS check needs to be re-worked and the database expanded to gather data from more sources. And I have no problem with the gun show thing - it really won't hurt any honest folks. If you went up to a booth and they said 'sorry, you will have to pay $15 and have a background check', would you then go 'oh, well nevermind'.? It still won't change the guys wandering around the parking lot selling their guns... and they really *are* private citizens selling their private guns.
But exactly *how* will this revamp be done? Dunno.
Yes, I would say "oh well, nevermind." Fuck that noise. A mandatory background check for all private transactions is unenforceable. A mandatory background check for all private transactions at gun shows is ridiculous. "Let's just meet up later."
If they were actually private citizens I would agree. But these folks are making a living selling guns by following gun shows. They are gun dealers that don't have an ffl. They are avoiding the law by posing as 'private' booths and profit because they often sell for higher prices knowing damn well that they can get that much money from someone needing to avoid a background check. Just last month there was some guy out in the NW I think that was transferring guns to from his actual ffl business to his 'private collection' so that he could sell them at gun shows at a higher profit than he could in his store. There were like 3 dealers busted doing basically the same thing at the same time. If you can find a way to eliminate asshats like that from claiming 'private sales' while at the same time allowing an actual private seller to do their thing, I am all for it.
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:55 am
by Simmer down
Mayors Against Illegal Guns morphed into Mayors Against Guns during the recent TX gov election mudsling
Prick Perry-R, incumbant vs Bill White-D, then Houston mayor & part of Mayors Against Guns.
Perry was re-elected.
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:20 am
by Paladin
What about being able to do and print your own background check. You want to buy a gun you go online pay $10 and get a slip good for 5 days. You buy a gun even a private seller must get the paper and keep it.
Just a thought.
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:21 pm
by Wurble
MAIG is Bloomberg.
I don't trust one fracking thing coming from Bloomberg.
Easiest way to get me to oppose something is say Bloomberg proposed it.
I don't care what they are CLAIMING this is about. It's about something else. Bloomberg should never be trusted.
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:43 pm
by eelj
Wurble wrote:MAIG is Bloomberg.
I don't trust one fracking thing coming from Bloomberg.
Easiest way to get me to oppose something is say Bloomberg proposed it.
I don't care what they are CLAIMING this is about. It's about something else. Bloomberg should never be trusted.
Thats the problem with 2nd amendment debates, anytime a democrat brings up the subject there has been reason in the past to read something into it. The Obama administration has been wonderfully mute on the subject so far if they continue on that way especially in a second term it will go a long way toward eliminating that perception. Thats why I have high hopes about this club gaining strength.
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:11 pm
by Caliman73
eelj wrote:Wurble wrote:MAIG is Bloomberg.
I don't trust one fracking thing coming from Bloomberg.
Easiest way to get me to oppose something is say Bloomberg proposed it.
I don't care what they are CLAIMING this is about. It's about something else. Bloomberg should never be trusted.
Thats the problem with 2nd amendment debates, anytime a democrat brings up the subject there has been reason in the past to read something into it. The Obama administration has been wonderfully mute on the subject so far if they continue on that way especially in a second term it will go a long way toward eliminating that perception. Thats why I have high hopes about this club gaining strength.
The club is of different minds on this particular subject. Look, I live in California. ALL sales, except those from parent to child, grandparent to grand child, and spouses must go through a FFL. It is a pain in the ass, but is it a deal breaker? It hasn't stopped me from getting the firearms I want. I think that tightening up the reporting requirements for violent felons, and the adjudicated mentally ill is necessary and states that do not comply, and do so quickly should be fined.
When I see people like Rachel, and Lawrence O talking about guns with such venom, it does put me off regarding the standard Democratic response to guns. Bloomberg is not a Democrat and he is not a liberal. He is an oligarch who bought the mayor's office and has a private security army. He does not care about anyone's protection but his own.
Re: Letter from Howard Dean on gun control
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:55 am
by Wurble
Caliman73 wrote:When I see people like Rachel, and Lawrence O talking about guns with such venom, it does put me off regarding the standard Democratic response to guns. Bloomberg is not a Democrat and he is not a liberal. He is an oligarch who bought the mayor's office and has a private security army. He does not care about anyone's protection but his own.
Bingo about Bloomberg. That man does not want to be President; he wants to be KING.