Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg schooled Fox News host Bret Baier on electric cars over the weekend.

During an interview on Fox News Sunday, Baier asked Buttigieg why Tesla CEO Elon Musk had not been invited to a White House meeting on tailpipe emissions.

"Tesla wasn't invited to the White House event," Baier said, noting that Musk had complained in a tweet.

"Why was that?" the Fox News host asked. "Was it because Tesla is not unionized?"

"We were celebrating the other day the fact that we brought together labor leadership and the leadership of many of these employers of UAW," Buttigieg explained. "Now, what we are working on in our department and what we were announcing that day was tailpipe emissions standards."

"To their credit, an all-electric company like Tesla doesn't even have tailpipes and that's an exciting thing to see too," the secretary added.

https://www.rawstory.com/pete-buttigie ... ews-tesla/

No tailpipe well how will drivers do a rolling coal start or make loud exhaust noise? No tailpipe is un-American. Damn libtards taking away a god given right to pollute and make loud noises with my car and my ass.

Myself, I think electric vehicles are more than 60 years overdue.

Love mine

The IQ of these so-called journalists must be excruciatingly low.

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These car manufacturers need to get with installing charging stations. Either them or power companies. There just isn't enough of them and electric cars been out awhile.

Better the Car makers than the power companies. Just think of PG&E placing power stations in wooded areas or the Texas Power companies not having their charging stations workin in the cold winter or hot summer.

I don't really keep track of their locations but having them at gas stations sounds like a good idea.

As a tax payer I don't think the public should foot the bill as I've heard the new Infrastructure bill has in it. Restaurants and bars would also be a good place.

Pete pisses me off regularly ever since he said "hell yes we're coming for your guns. "

Electric cars are nothing more than a stop gap mode of power. I agree with the following article in regards to pollution - it still happens, just not out an exhaust pipe.

My experience with electric car buyers, particularly those of right wing leanings, is it was a "status" symbol more than anything else, cause they (the ones I know personally) did not give a rats ass about environment. It began with the Prius hybrid and has morphed into Volt, Tesla, etal . IMHO environmental pluses are total bullshit. Not to mention costing more than the average American can afford. I know I will never own one - I've got better things to piss off my money on in my remaining days on this side of dirt. No offense to those here than own one, as I'd presume your purchase was with honorable reasons, but proselytizing it's good for the environment is at best a push (as in Blackjack).

I can't argue the fact Fox and Bret Baier are a bunch of dumb fucks, though.

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... nt-000660/

TrueTexan wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:48 am Better the Car makers than the power companies. Just think of PG&E placing power stations in wooded areas or the Texas Power companies not having their charging stations workin in the cold winter or hot summer.

Dude, it's not PG&E, it's those damn Jewish space lasers.

Wino wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:12 am Electric cars are nothing more than a stop gap mode of power. I agree with the following article in regards to pollution - it still happens, just not out an exhaust pipe.

My experience with electric car buyers, particularly those of right wing leanings, is it was a "status" symbol more than anything else, cause they (the ones I know personally) did not give a rats ass about environment. It began with the Prius hybrid and has morphed into Volt, Tesla, etal . IMHO environmental pluses are total bullshit. Not to mention costing more than the average American can afford. I know I will never own one - I've got better things to piss off my money on in my remaining days on this side of dirt. No offense to those here than own one, as I'd presume your purchase was with honorable reasons, but proselytizing it's good for the environment is at best a push (as in Blackjack).

I can't argue the fact Fox and Bret Baier are a bunch of dumb fucks, though.

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... nt-000660/

I agree it's not a solution to our environmental issues. I can't help, but think that pushing electric cars and looking at just tail pipe emissions takes away from looking at a larger solution.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/source ... -emissions

Electrical production and industry are not far behind. If everyone was using electric cars we would need more electricity. It's possible a reduction in vehicle emissions would just be offset by an increase in electrical production. Seems a bit feel good to me and not comprehensive. We should be looking at electrical and power production that doesn't pollute, then electrical power would make more sense for vehicles. Still it's nice to see technology advance in battery storage.

Not surprising, during the 2020 presidential campaign after Buttigieg endorsed Biden, the Biden campaign sent him around the network circuits and he gained a reputation for not being afraid of going on Fox News. He can play just being a Midwestern guy from a conservative state, but he's fast on his feet and he's used to debating conservatives. He's a Rhodes scholar with degrees from Harvard and Oxford universities.

I'm all for electric cars and as they get better I would consider buying one. But has already been pointed out when you are using electricity that is produce by coal or natural gas you are still polluting. It's just not as bad as the rolling coal jacked up pickups. I would like to see more charging stations and faster charging.

I've been driving hybrids since 2005. I look at it being better for my pocket book that I have a vehicle that get 45 MPG (my current RAV4) than a vehicle that gets 25 MPG. Saves me money and over the years has paid for the little extra the Hybrids cost over the Internal Combustion Engine models. I would love to see the power companies go to more wind and solar rather than natural gas. It would be great for Texas to pay for solar panels and installation to homeowners and businesses as a diversified energy system, instead of Texas giving the power companies billions of dollars for the fiasco freeze we had last winter,

https://dentonrc.com/news/the_watchdog/ ... 1cd51.html

highdesert wrote:Not surprising, during the 2020 presidential campaign after Buttigieg endorsed Biden, the Biden campaign sent him around the network circuits and he gained a reputation for not being afraid of going on Fox News. He can play just being a Midwestern guy from a conservative state, but he's fast on his feet and he's used to debating conservatives. He's a Rhodes scholar with degrees from Harvard and Oxford universities.

Buttigieg 2024! Seriously though - he was my favorite candidate. Biden was the obvious “sure thing” to beat the Orangutan. I liked mayor Pete as a navy veteran & practical , and it’s long overdue to pass the torch to us, Gen-Xers…


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I disagree, electric cars will eventually make a very big impact on air quality. Just because we're not there yet, don't count it out. When you remove the GAZILLION individual polluting nodes, it's a LOT easier to address greenhouse gas emissions at the thousands of power plants. Baby steps...but we'll get there.

FrontSight wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:49 pm I disagree, electric cars will eventually make a very big impact on air quality. Just because we're not there yet, don't count it out. When you remove the GAZILLION individual polluting nodes, it's a LOT easier to address greenhouse gas emissions at the thousands of power plants. Baby steps...but we'll get there.

They’ll make a difference when the production of electricity does not add more pollution. Increase in electrical production with our current technology is not pollution free. The electric cars by themselves don’t pollute, but the industries around them do. One has to be cognizant that taking from one pile may just add to another. There needs to be a total approach that includes all sectors. We have a tendency to laser on a single culprit just like the violence prevention crowd tends to just look at guns and not the root causes. The whole picture has to be looked at.

If you can power your car up with solar power thats a big plus for eliminating electrical power from polluting power plants. From your own solar is even better I believe than those gawd awful windmills.

sikacz wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:15 pm

FrontSight wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:49 pm I disagree, electric cars will eventually make a very big impact on air quality. Just because we're not there yet, don't count it out. When you remove the GAZILLION individual polluting nodes, it's a LOT easier to address greenhouse gas emissions at the thousands of power plants. Baby steps...but we'll get there.

They’ll make a difference when the production of electricity does not add more pollution. Increase in electrical production with our current technology is not pollution free. The electric cars by themselves don’t pollute, but the industries around them do. One has to be cognizant that taking from one pile may just add to another. There needs to be a total approach that includes all sectors. We have a tendency to laser on a single culprit just like the violence prevention crowd tends to just look at guns and not the root causes. The whole picture has to be looked at.

Somewhat true on the emissions associated with powering EVs. However, they are still more efficient than fossil fuel cars. Also, some are powered from clean grids or personal solar. I drove one for 5 years that was 100% geothermal powered (selected power plan of all renewables). I am currently stuck with PG&E until I get solar set up sometime next year. Still, PG&E is somewhere around 80% renewable and getting toward 100% GHG free. That is a California clean grid mandate. Even with all of its warts, PG&E is making/procuring pretty fucking clean juice.

Now, the other point that we need to reevaluate how we get places is absolutely true. I am hopeful that Covid has provided some proof of concept that remote working can work out ok. I'm currently hitting the office 2x per week and working remote 3x (just started back last week), but my commute is also quite a bit longer since we moved (still easily done in the Bolt). The EV will continue to play a part in my goal of getting to an essentially off grid and GHG free household. But it is a collective evaluation, not just a "FuckinA, got me a Jetson Mobile." Home insulation, new windows and modern HVAC run off solar will likely, over the long haul, have a bigger reduction in my footprint.

sikacz wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:15 pm They’ll make a difference when the production of electricity does not add more pollution. Increase in electrical production with our current technology is not pollution free. The electric cars by themselves don’t pollute, but the industries around them do. One has to be cognizant that taking from one pile may just add to another. There needs to be a total approach that includes all sectors. We have a tendency to laser on a single culprit just like the violence prevention crowd tends to just look at guns and not the root causes. The whole picture has to be looked at.

As the technology increases with electric cars, so too does our ability to generate electricity in ever cleaner ways.

There's no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to power generation, there will always be negative side effects. But once the majority of vehicles are electric, the ability to affect air quality emanating from those power plants is a much easier field to plow.

I wish more states would mirror what California has done with rooftop solar... Perhaps the smartest thing I've ever seen come out of California.

Today, electric cars are pretty damn good. Imagine what they'll be like in 20 years. Cheaper, cleaner, and much more efficient.

FrontSight wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:27 pm
I wish more states would mirror what California has done with rooftop solar... Perhaps the smartest thing I've ever seen come out of California.

On of the things Ahnuld got right was pushing the environmental envelope. Imagine, a Republican (lite) that believed in conservation, renewable energy and climate change.

A few old Fox News style misconceptions being perpetuated here. Even with entirely coal-fired electricity, EVs turn out to be cleaner and more efficient than gas powered vehicles. There are efficiencies of scale involved - small, lightweight, mobile motors aren't designed for optimum thermal efficiency. Same goes for emissions controls. Once you factor in renewable generation and the health consequences of smog, it's not even close.

For the US as a whole, every single scenario produces a net reduction in premature deaths from PM2.5 pollution, despite the states mentioned above. If just 25 percent of vehicles swap to EVs and the grid is dirtier, the simulations estimate about 360 fewer premature deaths in the US each year. For a 75 percent conversion and a cleaner grid, that grows to over 2,900. And the researchers say this is based on a conservative estimate of PM2.5’s health impact, with other estimates doubling those numbers.

For greenhouse gas emissions, the researchers use an estimate of the “social cost of carbon”—the financial impact of emitting CO2. They also apply the economic “value of statistical life” used by the EPA for evaluating regulations. For 25 percent EVs and the current electric grid, this all totals to a value of about $16.8 billion each year in damages avoided. For 75 percent EVs and a cleaner grid, that shoots up to $70 billion per year.

So while some areas would need to address their grid to fully realize the local air quality improvements, electrifying transportation can clearly yield meaningful benefits.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08 ... -billions/

FrontSight wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:27 pm

sikacz wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:15 pm They’ll make a difference when the production of electricity does not add more pollution. Increase in electrical production with our current technology is not pollution free. The electric cars by themselves don’t pollute, but the industries around them do. One has to be cognizant that taking from one pile may just add to another. There needs to be a total approach that includes all sectors. We have a tendency to laser on a single culprit just like the violence prevention crowd tends to just look at guns and not the root causes. The whole picture has to be looked at.

As the technology increases with electric cars, so too does our ability to generate electricity in ever cleaner ways.

There's no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to power generation, there will always be negative side effects. But once the majority of vehicles are electric, the ability to affect air quality emanating from those power plants is a much easier field to plow.

I wish more states would mirror what California has done with rooftop solar... Perhaps the smartest thing I've ever seen come out of California.

Today, electric cars are pretty damn good. Imagine what they'll be like in 20 years. Cheaper, cleaner, and much more efficient.

No doubt eventually. Still vehicle emissions is responsible for approximately 28 percent of the pie followed by the next two polluters both in the mid twenties electrical production and industry. If there’s not a comprehensive approach that involves all emission sources then “may” produce benefits will be just that and these numbers become just a shell game.

Wino wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:12 am Electric cars are nothing more than a stop gap mode of power. I agree with the following article in regards to pollution - it still happens, just not out an exhaust pipe.

My experience with electric car buyers, particularly those of right wing leanings, is it was a "status" symbol more than anything else, cause they (the ones I know personally) did not give a rats ass about environment. It began with the Prius hybrid and has morphed into Volt, Tesla, etal . IMHO environmental pluses are total bullshit. Not to mention costing more than the average American can afford. I know I will never own one - I've got better things to piss off my money on in my remaining days on this side of dirt. No offense to those here than own one, as I'd presume your purchase was with honorable reasons, but proselytizing it's good for the environment is at best a push (as in Blackjack).

I can't argue the fact Fox and Bret Baier are a bunch of dumb fucks, though.

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... nt-000660/

Until battery technology advances a LOT, along with the ability to either charge quickly or swap a battery, e-cars will be a fringe. A Nissan Leaf or BMW e-whatever has an about 100 mile real world range. Less in cold weather.

OR is 'energy', fuel, gets scarce(not expensive but scarce) and then, we'll have far other, more serious problems..

.

lurker wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:42 am

F4FEver wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:32 am Until battery technology advances a LOT, along with the ability to either charge quickly or swap a battery, e-cars will be a fringe.

this. it's 40 miles to my range and 40 miles back. don't get me wrong, i like the idea of e-cars. for around town. not for road trips.

Both of these! Won’t happen in my lifetime. I’ve probably bought the last vehicles I’ll ever own. Hope some ass doesn’t make a law that punishes me for owning them.