Hello all!

First of all, just want to say how happy I am to see that this group exists. My search for gun information mostly brings me to sites that make me cringe, make me mad, make me sure that I wouldn't be welcome to say anything lest I infect them with my liberalness, or any combination of any of these things. I'm not looking to overthrow anything....I just want to keep my home and wife safe, you know?

Anyway...I don't yet own a firearm. I've been against the idea of having a gun in the house for a really long time. Never saw it as necessary I guess. But lately, I don't know...it's just getting wierd out there. We're moving soon but in the 3 years that we've lived in our current location 3 people have been killed within a mile radius of our home and our city is seeing a spike in robberies so bad right now that we've had more than 30 so far since the start of the new year.

When we move, it'll most likely be to Philadelphia, granted, we'll be sure it's to a nicer neighborhood than we're in now, but it's not like we're trading for a place in the countryside, you know? Safety has been at the forefront of my mind for quite some time and for the first time in my life I'm leaning more toward arming myself than away from it.

I just want to make sure that I'm not buying into the hype of fear that exists so blatently. "They" - whoever they are - want us to be afraid - it's obvious every time you read a news article and see what the threat of the day happens to be. I refuse to be lead like that. But, at the same time, if it's 2 a.m. and my home's number comes up I want something more than the knives in the kitchen or the baseball bat in the closet to be available to deal with the situation, you know? I mean, what am I going to do...throw one of the cats at him?

Anyway - sorry for how random and stream of consciousness this is...I just...I can't shake the feeling that when I plop down the money for this thing and I walk out of the store with my new gun that I'm going to feel like I lost a small part of myself, that I didn't buy into it, that I was the one who continued to live my life and not be afraid.

But, when your nightmare scenario is this thing called a "home invasion" (remember when they'd at least wait until you weren't home to rob you?)....knowing that the cat won't cut it makes you look at the situation as a whole.

Anyway - thanks for listening....any input would of course be appreciated. Am I the only one who put this much thought and debate into taking this step?

photomonkey wrote:Hello all!

First of all, just want to say how happy I am to see that this group exists. My search for gun information mostly brings me to sites that make me cringe, make me mad, make me sure that I wouldn't be welcome to say anything lest I infect them with my liberalness, or any combination of any of these things. I'm not looking to overthrow anything....I just want to keep my home and wife safe, you know?

Anyway...I don't yet own a firearm. I've been against the idea of having a gun in the house for a really long time. Never saw it as necessary I guess. But lately, I don't know...it's just getting wierd out there. We're moving soon but in the 3 years that we've lived in our current location 3 people have been killed within a mile radius of our home and our city is seeing a spike in robberies so bad right now that we've had more than 30 so far since the start of the new year.

When we move, it'll most likely be to Philadelphia, granted, we'll be sure it's to a nicer neighborhood than we're in now, but it's not like we're trading for a place in the countryside, you know? Safety has been at the forefront of my mind for quite some time and for the first time in my life I'm leaning more toward arming myself than away from it.

I just want to make sure that I'm not buying into the hype of fear that exists so blatently. "They" - whoever they are - want us to be afraid - it's obvious every time you read a news article and see what the threat of the day happens to be. I refuse to be lead like that. But, at the same time, if it's 2 a.m. and my home's number comes up I want something more than the knives in the kitchen or the baseball bat in the closet to be available to deal with the situation, you know? I mean, what am I going to do...throw one of the cats at him?

Anyway - sorry for how random and stream of consciousness this is...I just...I can't shake the feeling that when I plop down the money for this thing and I walk out of the store with my new gun that I'm going to feel like I lost a small part of myself, that I didn't buy into it, that I was the one who continued to live my life and not be afraid.

But, when your nightmare scenario is this thing called a "home invasion" (remember when they'd at least wait until you weren't home to rob you?)....knowing that the cat won't cut it makes you look at the situation as a whole.

Anyway - thanks for listening....any input would of course be appreciated. Am I the only one who put this much thought and debate into taking this step?

Welcome.

You are most welcome here, photomonkey. The choice to pursue firearms ownership should be a rational decision, and the hand in control of the weapon should itself be firmly under the control of a sound, focused mind. Fear isn't always irrational, but even well founded fear has a way of poisoning what should be sound decisions. The first question you need to answer for yourself is: do I reasonably trust myself and those I live with, to maintain a gun in my home safely? If the answer is yes, then you should feel confident in going forward with the choice, purchase of, and education on a weapon most suitable for your situation, if any.

Remember that if you do choose gun ownership, you're not just going to buy a gun, but security measures that will prevent it being turned on you or accidentally fired. You will need to develop household protocol for storing, handling, and possibly using the weapon. For some members of your household, the only safe thing to do may be to demystify but otherwise avoid the weapon. If you think these through logically and relentlessly implement them, you and those for whose safety you are responsible, will benefit from having the gun. Apply your mind to each of these decisions in turn, and you'll make the right ones.

IF you buy a weapon, you're not buying into an attitude. The weapon doesn't change who you are, for good or bad. Not even how you vote. If you don't want to hurt people now, you still won't want to hurt them. It's not foolproof insurance against harm, by any means. It's just a tool for protection, if you would prefer to have the option to protect yourself.

Welcome, you'll find pretty levels heads on both sides of any issue here.

photomonkey wrote: Anyway - sorry for how random and stream of consciousness this is...I just...I can't shake the feeling that when I plop down the money for this thing and I walk out of the store with my new gun that I'm going to feel like I lost a small part of myself, that I didn't buy into it, that I was the one who continued to live my life and not be afraid.

No need, I was in your boat as well and never (ever!) thought I own a firearm, let alone more than a few. Turns out shooting (safely) is just friggin' fun. Secondly, if it's not your thing then sell it, there's no shame. But there also no shame in wanting to protect your home/family. Thirdly, guns generally hold their value over time.

photomonkey wrote: But, when your nightmare scenario is this thing called a "home invasion" (remember when they'd at least wait until you weren't home to rob you?)....knowing that the cat won't cut it makes you look at the situation as a whole.

Personally I've armed 2 out of 4 cats, 1 is anti gun and the other just can't pass the mental health evaluations. If you have fat enough cows..I mean cats, .45 caliber is quiet manageable.

First , welcome; we’re glad to have you.
Regarding your situation, If you’ll indulge me for a little, my line of work is executive protection (bodyguard). So when you consider a firearm for protection, you need to know that a gun by itself is not the answer, and can be more trouble.
You really need some training in how to use it, but more importantly, you need to really understand the mindest of personal protection with a firearm. For that, I don’t know of any book better than “In the gravest extreme, by Massad Ayoob”: http://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extreme-F ... 836&sr=8-1
The book is a bit dated, but everything is still quite relavent. I’ve always felt this book ought to be required reading for anyone considering a gun for self defesne.

Next you really need to understand self protection, and how to secure your home. There are lots of resources out there, but let me give you the “cliff’s notes” to get you started.
In executive protection we live by two main mantra’s for security, the “rings” of security, and 3D’s and an R.
The “rings” are essentially rings of security around us at all times. That could be physical barriers such as being inside a car, or it can be as elaborate as bodyguard, cops, etc ringing whom we’re protecting.
For your home, the 3 D’s and one R are:
Deter
Detect
Delay
Respond
Deterance is anything that makes a predator think twice. Motion sensitive security lighting (which is pretty cheap these days), alarm signs, an NRA sticker in your car window or an external window of your home (yeah, I can’t stand the NRA either, but criminals actually notice such things, and it DOES make them think). A large dog in the yard is good also.
Detect – Just anything to detect the threat early on; alarms, secuity lighting, or just a dog (of any size) that barks when he hears someone outide the house.
Delay – Fences, good locks on doors, alarms, rose bushes below the windows; etc. Again, a dog can often be a delay if it’s big enough to be a problem for the attacker.
Respond – Calling for help, heading toward a safe room, arming oneself, having a pre-planned escape route, and once again; a big mean dog.
This is very brief mostly because I’m REALLY tired and I want to head to bed. But if you’re thinking about a gun because you’re feeling threatened, you really need to get serious about the things that are much more important than a gun. I’m a bodyguard and I carry a gun. But if that gun ever comes out, I’ve already lost; I really screwed up. I win by being well prepared and several steps ahead of the enemy at all times. It’s the same thing with your home, and personal protection. You need to learn how to keep yourself out of trouble, and how to make yourself a very difficult and inconvenient target. Criminals are lazy, that’s why they’re trying to take the easy way. So make yourself VERY inconvenient to hit in any way, and they’ll just go look for someone easier. Get involved with neighborhood watch, get to know the cops who work your area. Look up good resources, and don’t forget your public library, it’s a great resource.

Welcome! It sounds like you are coming at this from both a pragmatic and responsible approach. That's commendable. Seek some basic instruction in whatever you choose. If you can, find an LGC instructor near by, if not, there may be some low cost yet not too gung-ho classes offered by your state. Welcome to the boards again, collectively there are some very knowledgeable folk here. Everyone was new to shooting at one point, and people here are glad to help.

photomonkey wrote:Hello all!

First of all, just want to say how happy I am to see that this group exists. My search for gun information mostly brings me to sites that make me cringe, make me mad, make me sure that I wouldn't be welcome to say anything lest I infect them with my liberalness, or any combination of any of these things. I'm not looking to overthrow anything....I just want to keep my home and wife safe, you know?

Anyway...I don't yet own a firearm. I've been against the idea of having a gun in the house for a really long time. Never saw it as necessary I guess. But lately, I don't know...it's just getting wierd out there. We're moving soon but in the 3 years that we've lived in our current location 3 people have been killed within a mile radius of our home and our city is seeing a spike in robberies so bad right now that we've had more than 30 so far since the start of the new year.

When we move, it'll most likely be to Philadelphia, granted, we'll be sure it's to a nicer neighborhood than we're in now, but it's not like we're trading for a place in the countryside, you know? Safety has been at the forefront of my mind for quite some time and for the first time in my life I'm leaning more toward arming myself than away from it.

I just want to make sure that I'm not buying into the hype of fear that exists so blatently. "They" - whoever they are - want us to be afraid - it's obvious every time you read a news article and see what the threat of the day happens to be. I refuse to be lead like that. But, at the same time, if it's 2 a.m. and my home's number comes up I want something more than the knives in the kitchen or the baseball bat in the closet to be available to deal with the situation, you know? I mean, what am I going to do...throw one of the cats at him?

Anyway - sorry for how random and stream of consciousness this is...I just...I can't shake the feeling that when I plop down the money for this thing and I walk out of the store with my new gun that I'm going to feel like I lost a small part of myself, that I didn't buy into it, that I was the one who continued to live my life and not be afraid.

But, when your nightmare scenario is this thing called a "home invasion" (remember when they'd at least wait until you weren't home to rob you?)....knowing that the cat won't cut it makes you look at the situation as a whole.

Anyway - thanks for listening....any input would of course be appreciated. Am I the only one who put this much thought and debate into taking this step?

Welcome! Many years ago I lived in a declining area of Dallas as a young guy fresh out of college. Several incidents in my apartment complex motivated me to to acquire my first firearm ever, so I know where you're coming from. Just keep in mind that buying a gun that you then shove in your sock drawer doesn't necessarily make you safer. Get some basic safety instruction and practice regularly with it.

I've found the folks in this forum to be very knowledgeable, and happy to share what they know. Post your questions when you're ready to buy your first firearm.

Welcome!

Welcome from Texas. The more hair I lose the more hats I've bought. Still losing hair.

Guns don't magically solve anything either. Good that you think about stuff though.

Welcome...
I repeat the good advice allready given- practice, practice, practice. Get comfortable with your firearm. Keep it on your person- and when you can't, keep it in a safe.

Welcome from another new member. This is definitely a home for the reasonable, level-headed gun enthusiast. Don't hesitate to ask questions regarding any future gun purchase(s).

Welcome!

I recomend AK47 with grenade launcher for all beginers. But start out slow and aim torward Alaska real careful.

Beware, as I found out, once you get that first gun and start going to the range, you'll want more guns. It's quite an addicting and damned expensive hobby. Make sure you get training first.

Welcome!

FrontSight gave you some excellent pointers. Focus on every element of DDDR.

Hang out and ask questions. Read a lot. The only problem with this site is these guys love guns and that rubs off. But they are level headed with great advice.

photomonkey wrote:Hello all!

First of all, just want to say how happy I am to see that this group exists. My search for gun information mostly brings me to sites that make me cringe, make me mad, make me sure that I wouldn't be welcome to say anything lest I infect them with my liberalness, or any combination of any of these things. I'm not looking to overthrow anything....I just want to keep my home and wife safe, you know?

Welcome to the site. As for your train of reasoning. Yeah, I know. I'm also interested in guns for self defense. And yes, I do find many of the gun forums to be unpleasant.

photomonkey wrote: Anyway...I don't yet own a firearm. I've been against the idea of having a gun in the house for a really long time. Never saw it as necessary I guess. But lately, I don't know...it's just getting wierd out there. We're moving soon but in the 3 years that we've lived in our current location 3 people have been killed within a mile radius of our home and our city is seeing a spike in robberies so bad right now that we've had more than 30 so far since the start of the new year.

Guns had never been a part of my life until last year when I took a class in handgun safety and then bought my first handgun. Our neighborhood is not that bad. The worst recently has been a string of 3 robberies on our street, which is bad but not like we're having gang wars on the street. The event which kicked the gun interest for me was last year's terrible snowstorm which left us cut off from public services for a good 3 days. We were fine but that was by luck rather than by design.

photomonkey wrote: I just want to make sure that I'm not buying into the hype of fear that exists so blatently.

Some people hype the fear because it is in their own interest to have you be fearful. They sell services or goods, or they have a specific ideology they sell. They come up with all kinds of "what if" scenarios which really have no end. What if someone invades your house? What if that person comes in through a second story window? What if this person is wearing body armor? What if it is 5 guys instead of just one? What if, what if, what if. How about a bazooka or a tank? Sure it can happen and maybe someone can even point to some newspaper article showing that the scenario did in fact happen. (Apparently some home invaders have at some point used body armor.)

There are also people who buy into this fear and then rebroadcast it. They are not trying to sell you anything but they want to be validated in their fear. There is only one answer they want from you: "yes, whatever your are doing is totally reasonable." I listen to them, because I can learn something from all kinds of people, but I don't have to buy into anything they are saying.

photomonkey wrote: Anyway - sorry for how random and stream of consciousness this is...I just...I can't shake the feeling that when I plop down the money for this thing and I walk out of the store with my new gun that I'm going to feel like I lost a small part of myself, that I didn't buy into it, that I was the one who continued to live my life and not be afraid.

I sure did not feel that way when I got my first gun. I have not become one of those people who think everybody is out to get them or who believe that guns are talismans which can solve everything and are the first response to all situations which appear dangerous.

One thing though, the way I see it if you plan to use a gun for home defense, you need to be ready to kill another human being. Let me be clear here that I'm not advocating shooting indiscriminately in the dark, "let the chips fall where they may" or "let god sort it out." The fact is that once you bring a gun into a situation where someone intends to harm you, you've raised the stakes tremendously. Once you've done everything you need to do to asses that the perceived threat is a real imminent threat and that your shooting is not going to kill an innocent by mistake (and yes, while you do this, it is possible that the bad guy could harm you or harm people you care about), so you know that you are justified in shooting, you cannot back down at the last second because you can't bring yourself to shoot. Certainly, if you do not shoot then having a gun is no better than being unarmed. (Well, okay, you can use a gun as a brick, especially if it is a Glock. ) Quite likely, however, the situation will be worse than being unarmed because the bad guy then can take possession of the gun.

Some people will say the sight of a gun is a deterrent. Yes, some home invaders, and maybe most, will turn around at the sight of a gun. They are looking for easy prey. In such case there is no imminent threat because the person turned around. This is outside of the scope of what I'm talking about above: the situation when there is imminent threat, precautions are taken and then there is failure to act. The use of a gun as deterrent opens up another debate which I do not wish to engage in just now so I'm going to leave it at that.

So for home defense, the idea of killing may be a hurdle. At the same time, this does not mean you cannot or should not learn about guns.

photomonkey wrote: Anyway - thanks for listening....any input would of course be appreciated. Am I the only one who put this much thought and debate into taking this step?

Handling a gun means taking on a serious responsibility. It is good that you are thinking about what you are doing. I've also had to reflect on what I was doing and what it means to own a gun. Heck, I'm still reflecting on it and I'm going to continue reflecting on it for as long as I'm alive and own guns.

Wow....you all are amazing. Thank you so much for the warm welcome and the incredible level of thought and information put forth already. It is truly appreciated and I've digested so much with just this first post.

There is one recurring theme though and I want to make sure that it's known that I have indeed thought about how serious the situation will have become if the gun is ever drawn in my house. I'm also no stranger to firearms. I've shot a wide variety of them (just never owned one), have been trained in their safe use and handling, and will make 150% sure that my wife goes through the same thing. We'll actually do it together as it's been a while since my last class anyway. No better time than her first run-through, you know? Additionally, we've talked and mandated a bare minimum of one day a month at the range to practice and maintain familiarity with the weapon for both of us.

At any rate.....I feel like I share the core concerns of the vast majority of this group and knowing that there are others out there like me (politically liberal leaning but take their and their family's security as tantamount over all) has made this realization much much easier.

I look forward to continuing with this group and being a part of things in the future. Thanks for making this first post so great.

We're moving soon but in the 3 years that we've lived in our current location 3 people have been killed within a mile radius of our home and our city is seeing a spike in robberies so bad right now that we've had more than 30 so far since the start of the new year.

Looks like that is the first priority, remove the family from a threatening area. As has been mentioned we all came to guns at a different times, my grandfather was a cop so I grew up with guns but only returned to them later in life. Plenty of advice and support on this board, so welcome!

highdesert wrote:

We're moving soon but in the 3 years that we've lived in our current location 3 people have been killed within a mile radius of our home and our city is seeing a spike in robberies so bad right now that we've had more than 30 so far since the start of the new year.

Looks like that is the first priority, remove the family from a threatening area. As has been mentioned we all came to guns at a different times, my grandfather was a cop so I grew up with guns but only returned to them later in life. Plenty of advice and support on this board, so welcome!

Ha - that's the odd thing...the move isn't even a function of the crime level....we'd be doing it anyway. So sad though, when we first moved here (southeastern Virginia) we thought it was a nice place....we're across the street from a school for crying out loud....and we found the place as a result of a "friend of the family" realtor. Then, a kid got shot in the parking lot at the mall up the street. Then a guy got shot in his front yard. Then a woman walked into a robbery at a convenience store up the way and got shot as she was trying to run back out of the store. Seems like we can't go a week without the police helicopter flying over in some kind of search. Our neighborhood itself is fairly ok but when you've nicknamed the road that you sit off of "the gauntlet" there's something to be said for the safety level of the surrounding area.

Like I said, the move will more than likely be putting us in Philadelphia (academic reasons on my wife's part) and it's not like we're trading a crime-ridden city for an oasis of peace and tranquility....I mean, Philly certainly has its problems. But, we're going to be MUCH smarter about the new place than we were about our move to our current area. Her school is in a pretty rough area though (why are good schools always in areas that you don't want to stop at red lights??) so that of course raises the question of eventually arming her during her night classes if she finds it necessary.

I long for simpler times.

First off, G'day.

Where do you live in South Eastern Virginia?

Welcome welcome!

Purchasing a handgun is definitely an important decision, one that I'm still working with.

My husband (That'll be MetalSlugIV) owns, and carries. He's been encouraging me to carry, and based on how the world seems to be going crazier by the day, it is something I'm definitely rolling around in my mind.

That being said, cats are horrible for home defense. The worst that will happen is the burglar steps on them, which will scare the shit out of them (ever stepped on a cat at night?).

Or you can have one like my cat. Who is an absolute whore. She loves everyone, and lets this be known with frequent taste testing.

Welcome. I am sure that you will get many viewpoints on guns and self defense. I hope that we are able to influence you in a positive way, which doesn't necessarily mean buying a gun, but actually helping you make your decision thoughtfully and with confidence that you are doing the right thing.

photomonkey wrote:Hello all!

First of all, just want to say how happy I am to see that this group exists. My search for gun information mostly brings me to sites that make me cringe, make me mad, make me sure that I wouldn't be welcome to say anything lest I infect them with my liberalness, or any combination of any of these things. I'm not looking to overthrow anything....I just want to keep my home and wife safe, you know?

Anyway...I don't yet own a firearm. I've been against the idea of having a gun in the house for a really long time. Never saw it as necessary I guess. But lately, I don't know...it's just getting wierd out there. We're moving soon but in the 3 years that we've lived in our current location 3 people have been killed within a mile radius of our home and our city is seeing a spike in robberies so bad right now that we've had more than 30 so far since the start of the new year.

When we move, it'll most likely be to Philadelphia, granted, we'll be sure it's to a nicer neighborhood than we're in now, but it's not like we're trading for a place in the countryside, you know? Safety has been at the forefront of my mind for quite some time and for the first time in my life I'm leaning more toward arming myself than away from it.

I just want to make sure that I'm not buying into the hype of fear that exists so blatently. "They" - whoever they are - want us to be afraid - it's obvious every time you read a news article and see what the threat of the day happens to be. I refuse to be lead like that. But, at the same time, if it's 2 a.m. and my home's number comes up I want something more than the knives in the kitchen or the baseball bat in the closet to be available to deal with the situation, you know? I mean, what am I going to do...throw one of the cats at him?

Anyway - sorry for how random and stream of consciousness this is...I just...I can't shake the feeling that when I plop down the money for this thing and I walk out of the store with my new gun that I'm going to feel like I lost a small part of myself, that I didn't buy into it, that I was the one who continued to live my life and not be afraid.

But, when your nightmare scenario is this thing called a "home invasion" (remember when they'd at least wait until you weren't home to rob you?)....knowing that the cat won't cut it makes you look at the situation as a whole.

Anyway - thanks for listening....any input would of course be appreciated. Am I the only one who put this much thought and debate into taking this step?

Reminds me of what happened in my neighborhood a few years back. I live in a rough and tumble part of Dallas two years ago a couple of hoods were robbing people as they would walk from there cars two their houses at night; these two guys robbed three people on my street. These two guys eventually graduated to home invasions and knocked over a few houses until they picked the wrong one in which one of the guys took a shotgun blast to the face. After that the neighborhood got quite for a long time.

Even if you do live in a rough part of town make sure you no your neighbors and that you have their back and they have yours. That is how it is where we live.

Welcome to the forum you will enjoy it here and it will be a tolerable environment as opposed to other gun forums.

Masonalannz, I'm in Virginia Beach. I see that you're in Hampton. Small world. Thought I was the only lib down here. Strength in numbers it would seem.

DuckyChan, your post made me snort. Yeah, I figured these two would be pretty useless for any sort of home protection when the doorbell rang for the first time and they both beelined it for under the bed. In that case I won't even be able to get my hands on one to throw it at someone.

All the money we spend on food and toys...you'd think they'd at least kick in for the defense of the home.

At any rate....wanted to let everyone know that the first purchase was made today. I found a shop that I felt perfectly comfortable in. There was no creepy vibe, there was no talk of how "they" were gonna come and get all our guns, putting it simply, the place didn't give me the willies.

So, I purchased the Glock G17. I'd had my eyes on it as the primary starting point for my search and, in the end, it wound up being the best bet. Personal preference would have been for something .40 or .45 for enhanced stopping power but the recoil on the 9mm is going to be much easier for the wife to handle while she gets started at the range. I'd rather her be able to get well placed shots with the 9mm than hoping that she's connecting with the 40. We've both fired this gun before....now we just own one. Range time and classes are soon to come as well....just the first steps in a long line of getting the most out of the purchase. I've target shot a bit in the past and I'm looking forward at being to count shooting as a hobby and get as good as I can at it. In the end, if it's something we can do together for fun, while at the same time taking steps to enhance our personal security, then that's a win win.

Because of my time here combined with the positive experience in the shop I didn't feel the remorse that I thought I might when making the purchase. If anything I'm very secure in what I did and excited for the road ahead. Research also shows that the move to PA in the future will be an easy one given the agreements that the two states share and even a concealed carry permit will carry over....something I'm going to ensure that the wife has (even if she doesn't constantly use it) when she starts her night classes. At least the option will be there.

At any rate....thank you all again for the input and the advice as I implement what I've learned here. I really wish there was a chapter here or an instructor in the area....I'd love to learn personally from someone in the club. Meh....who knows....maybe one day I'll be one and can help out a n00b of my very own.