Re: Wadcutters?

51
sikacz wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:09 am I don’t doubt that hollow points are an excellent choice. I think from reading that perhaps a SWC is also not a bad choice if you shoot it with more accuracy. From the article:
Col. Fackler’s observation, and one with which my friend “ER Doc” agrees, is that the hollowpoint .38 Special is not the “magic bullet.” When a bullet expands in the classic mushroom fashion, it reduces penetration. The best JHP defense loads such as Speer Gold Dot meet FBI penetration criteria. Not all JHPs do.

We believe that maximum frontal area and tissue crush, combined with deep penetration adequate to defeat reasonable cover (a defensively positioned arm or heavy clothing), which can still penetrate the breastbone and get through ribs into vital organs, is important. Particularly in calibers of “marginal” energy, (200 ft-lbs or less) it is important to have the maximum meplat diameter (frontal area) consistent with reliable feeding. The wadcutter in a revolver makes the most of this.
You also need adequate sectional density to ensure through and through penetration. Our reasoning is that if the FBI considers 14 inches of gelatin penetration adequate, we’d like 20+. Being able to shoot through both shoulders of a deer and exiting is desired.

Yes, the wadcutter is a compromise, but I would rather use a wadcutter handload of proven reliability on groundhogs, feral dogs (or putting down the occasional stock), than a jacketed hollowpoint which may not go through a pit bull’s skull. Which begs the question: why don’t the manufacturers produce a full charge wadcutter like they used to (before WWII)?
Just thinking it’s an option and especially if one could produce the full charge Wadcutter.
You also mentioned the SWC. MiHec makes moulds that can cast hollow-point SWC's. They do a good job, too.

The article conflates several different goals here. If I'm going after groundhogs, I'm probably not going to use a .38 Special, but rather a scoped rifle in .22LR. Then they mention a deer. For a deer, if I'm going to be hunting with a .38 Special-family cartridge and load, it'll be a .357 Magnum with the 158gr JSP (jacketed soft point) or one of my BHN 12 LSWC-HP's (also 158gr), and I'll be doing it with the 16" bbl lever rifle, not a handgun. Feral dogs, that's a carry situation, and I'm probably going to be carrying .357 Magnum anyway, and that *will* go through a pit bull's skull at any responsible handgun range. But I'll be aiming for the body anyway, since that's a larger target, if I have to put down an attacking feral dog or other animal. It's a shame that the article helps to demonize the pit bull breed, given that it's one of the very best family dogs ever developed. It used to be that half of all household dogs were American Pit Bull Terriers (e. g. "Pal" from Our Gang/The Little Rascals).

It really depends on what you're doing. Were the wadcutter sat out like most other types of bullets are, and you (carefully, as always) work up a load for them according to the books using data (including OAL) for that bullet weight or slightly larger, then you should be safe.

But also remember, the 125gr JHP factory .357 Magnum loads have been well-regarded man-stoppers for many decades, and with good reason.
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Re: Wadcutters?

52
CowboyT wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:30 pm
sikacz wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:09 am I don’t doubt that hollow points are an excellent choice. I think from reading that perhaps a SWC is also not a bad choice if you shoot it with more accuracy. From the article:
Col. Fackler’s observation, and one with which my friend “ER Doc” agrees, is that the hollowpoint .38 Special is not the “magic bullet.” When a bullet expands in the classic mushroom fashion, it reduces penetration. The best JHP defense loads such as Speer Gold Dot meet FBI penetration criteria. Not all JHPs do.

We believe that maximum frontal area and tissue crush, combined with deep penetration adequate to defeat reasonable cover (a defensively positioned arm or heavy clothing), which can still penetrate the breastbone and get through ribs into vital organs, is important. Particularly in calibers of “marginal” energy, (200 ft-lbs or less) it is important to have the maximum meplat diameter (frontal area) consistent with reliable feeding. The wadcutter in a revolver makes the most of this.
You also need adequate sectional density to ensure through and through penetration. Our reasoning is that if the FBI considers 14 inches of gelatin penetration adequate, we’d like 20+. Being able to shoot through both shoulders of a deer and exiting is desired.

Yes, the wadcutter is a compromise, but I would rather use a wadcutter handload of proven reliability on groundhogs, feral dogs (or putting down the occasional stock), than a jacketed hollowpoint which may not go through a pit bull’s skull. Which begs the question: why don’t the manufacturers produce a full charge wadcutter like they used to (before WWII)?
Just thinking it’s an option and especially if one could produce the full charge Wadcutter.
You also mentioned the SWC. MiHec makes moulds that can cast hollow-point SWC's. They do a good job, too.

The article conflates several different goals here. If I'm going after groundhogs, I'm probably not going to use a .38 Special, but rather a scoped rifle in .22LR. Then they mention a deer. For a deer, if I'm going to be hunting with a .38 Special-family cartridge and load, it'll be a .357 Magnum with the 158gr JSP (jacketed soft point) or one of my BHN 12 LSWC-HP's (also 158gr), and I'll be doing it with the 16" bbl lever rifle, not a handgun. Feral dogs, that's a carry situation, and I'm probably going to be carrying .357 Magnum anyway, and that *will* go through a pit bull's skull at any responsible handgun range. But I'll be aiming for the body anyway, since that's a larger target, if I have to put down an attacking feral dog or other animal. It's a shame that the article helps to demonize the pit bull breed, given that it's one of the very best family dogs ever developed. It used to be that half of all household dogs were American Pit Bull Terriers (e. g. "Pal" from Our Gang/The Little Rascals).

It really depends on what you're doing. Were the wadcutter sat out like most other types of bullets are, and you (carefully, as always) work up a load for them according to the books using data (including OAL) for that bullet weight or slightly larger, then you should be safe.

But also remember, the 125gr JHP factory .357 Magnum loads have been well-regarded man-stoppers for many decades, and with good reason.
You’re getting me deeper down a rabbit hole. I’m making a list of items for casting! LoL.
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