Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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flintlock wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:38 am Upon further investigation, doing some research, and thinking about my overall needs I'm leaning towards getting a double action semi auto 9mm in a compact but not too small a size. I like the function of a double action, and I feel less good about carrying a S/A cocked with the safety on, although I'm not very familiar with the various safety devices on SA Semi Autos. I'm debating single or double stack mags, but I think in DA mostly it's double stacked. This article seems to outline a few good options of currently produced guns, (Walther P99, Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact Pro, CZ 2075 RAMI rami subcompact, Beretta PX4 Storm SC) although I'm not against something not currently made either. [https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/6-da ... led-carry/]
The RAMI is indeed very small; if you’re going 9mm, check out the other various CZ options such as P-01 (including Omega, which is what I have); PCR; 75 Compact; and if you want to go polymer, P-07. A lot of people here stand by CZ, and for good reason: they are reliably good value.

Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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Some years ago myself, my wife and her family from Logan, Utah went to Yellowstone. On the way we stopped at Jackson Hole spent the night. While there we heard about things to do to warn bears away from you. Wear bells so they hear you coming and carry bear spray. Then one of the od timers said you just need to know what bear is around the area. You do this by looking at the bear scat. If it has berries and leaves in it. That is a black bear and normally will leave you alone. If it smells of hot peppers and has bells in it. That is a brown bear and you need to leave the area.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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TrueTexan wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:34 am Some years ago myself, my wife and her family from Logan, Utah went to Yellowstone. On the way we stopped at Jackson Hole spent the night. While there we heard about things to do to warn bears away from you. Wear bells so they hear you coming and carry bear spray. Then one of the od timers said you just need to know what bear is around the area. You do this by looking at the bear scat. If it has berries and leaves in it. That is a black bear and normally will leave you alone. If it smells of hot peppers and has bells in it. That is a brown bear and you need to leave the area.
Yeah I heard that! :roflmao: :clap2:
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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sikacz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:48 am
TrueTexan wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:34 am Some years ago myself, my wife and her family from Logan, Utah went to Yellowstone. On the way we stopped at Jackson Hole spent the night. While there we heard about things to do to warn bears away from you. Wear bells so they hear you coming and carry bear spray. Then one of the od timers said you just need to know what bear is around the area. You do this by looking at the bear scat. If it has berries and leaves in it. That is a black bear and normally will leave you alone. If it smells of hot peppers and has bells in it. That is a brown bear and you need to leave the area.
Yeah I heard that! :roflmao: :clap2:
Awesome! I've heard the same. Jingle bell scat they called it.

:laugh:

Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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There isn't a caliber that compensates for preparation, perception, or common sense. In an aggressive encounter, spray should absolutely be your first line defense.

Ten years ago hereabouts, we had a private zoo owner decide to make headlines by letting his menagerie loose and then committing suicide. It was a thing.
Lions, tigers, bears, and wolves were among the animals that escaped and were hunted by local law enforcement out of fear for public safety.Owner Terry Thompson allegedly set free 50 of his 56 exotic animals before shooting himself in the head. Forty-eight animals were killed by the local police while two were presumed eaten by the other animals. The animals confirmed to be dead were eighteen tigers, six black bears, two grizzly bears, two wolves, one macaque monkey, one baboon, three mountain lions, nine male lions, and eight lionesses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Zane ... mal_escape

Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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I hike or backpack everywhere with a .357. My preference is my ruger SP101 with a 3” bbl. it is light enough to actually be reasonable to hike with in the mountains, and concealing it while in town. I routinely (before COVID-19) traveled to UT, AZ, NM & this is what I carry into the backcountry for long day hikes and the occasional overnight. Plus, I can shoot it accurately and reasonably fast follow-ups with medium .357 loads.
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Some people may sneeze at a .357 mag in “bear country.” But I have only ever see black bears in the wild and they kept their distance. I have never seen a black bear in Ohio or Michigan and that’s wear I’ve spent most of my time. If I was routinely in the backcountry of AK or other grizzly country I would go up in caliber/size. I also bring snake shells & lighter .38 loads. The only limitation of this firearm is my ability and it’s capacity. I’d rather be light and fast & always armed than toting one of my heavy revolvers in the brush.


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Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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I usually carry my G21 (45acp) loaded with hard ball, or Critical Duty. Last year I purchased a G40 (10mm with 6" barrel) and need to get a good holster for it, then I will carry that more. I had a Ruger super Blackhawk 44mag, but it was too heavy with the 7.5" barrel, and single action 6 shooter is slow follow up shots for me. If I was going to buy a pistol for hiking and concealed carry, I would get a G20.

Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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flintlock wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:28 pm Greetings!

I'm wondering what people would recommend for a pistol that I could use for back country protection while hiking in the NW (Bears, Cougars) and would potentially make a good concealed carry gun as well. The only handgun I have owned is a Ruger Single Six which I no longer have, and I don't think would be so suited for either use. I had thought of getting something in the Ruger Mark series, I know they are only a .22, but with CCI stingers they are pretty potent, ammo is plentiful and I just like them. I still think I may be better off with something a little more powerful. I like the reliability of a revolver, but I like the more compact nature and magazine capacity of an automatic.

Thanks~

Peter.
When in the woods, carry a rifle. When you aren't, carry a 9mm semi auto. If worried about 2 legged predators in the woods, carry both.

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I agree if you want to carry a rifle is best with a handgun for backup. Think a 44 mag in a lever action with a Ruger Alaskan for backup. That way you only have to carry one caliber. I have carried the Alaskan as a CCW.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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Many Alaskan guides have been switching to hi-cap 9mm's... And have had good success. I think it proves that shot placement and penetration are pretty much everything. People don't tend to shoot short barreled .44 magnums well enough to hit a very fast moving target. And recovery time from recoil makes it so much worse. What if you had 3x as many tries at hitting, in the same period of time? Only hits count.

So what are the really great CC 9mm's that are easy to shoot well? G19, CZP07, M&P... You know the guns I'm talking about.

I live in bear country. When I'm in the field, I carry my Colt .38 Super 1911. I find that sufficient (not necessarily ideal) for unpleasant encounters with humans and wildlife. I will also add, I have actually been in a close range fight with a bear. He was right up between my legs...that kind of close. I had a .357 revolver back then...I would have preferred my .38 Super...but you have to dance with the one you brought.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

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FrontSight wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:22 pm Many Alaskan guides have been switching to hi-cap 9mm's... And have had good success. I think it proves that shot placement and penetration are pretty much everything. People don't tend to shoot short barreled .44 magnums well enough to hit a very fast moving target. And recovery time from recoil makes it so much worse. What if you had 3x as many tries at hitting, in the same period of time? Only hits count.

So what are the really great CC 9mm's that are easy to shoot well? G19, CZP07, M&P... You know the guns I'm talking about.

I live in bear country. When I'm in the field, I carry my Colt .38 Super 1911. I find that sufficient (not necessarily ideal) for unpleasant encounters with humans and wildlife. I will also add, I have actually been in a close range fight with a bear. He was right up between my legs...that kind of close. I had a .357 revolver back then...I would have preferred my .38 Super...but you have to dance with the one you brought.
Damn! Details.?

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Not my best moment.

I was a 15 year old kid. My grandfather and his best friend hunted bear with dogs, and they allowed my to tag along. Last trip our dog, a blue heeler simply named "Blue" (Grandpa wasn't too imaginative) managed to get one of his ribs pull out of his chest by a bear's claws, and it was very expensive patching him up. Really quite a miracle he survived.

So this time out grandpa told me something to the effect of "if that dog gets hurt again, just don't come back". Cut to a couple of hours later, blue trees a boar. I'm running like hell to catch up, and I'm wearing an 8" Dan Wesson M15 in a shoulder holster. I have just sprinted nearly a half mile and I'm sucking wind pretty bad. Bear is tree'd, I walk up an place a 158gr JHP squarely between his shoulders trying for a heart shot. The bear falls from the tree, and rolls over on his back. I'm thinking it's all over...I was wrong.

Blue sees his chance, springs in and bites the bear right on the nutz. Bear is noe VERY alive and pissed. They start to scrap, blue flanks him (he's easily twice as fast as the bear), runs up between the bears legs and latches onto the bears throat. Bear rolls over...

At this point my brain has recall... ""if that dog gets hurt again, just don't come back"... So what does the dumb-ass 15yo kid do? I step right over the bear straddling with legs on either side, grab a hand full of dog and toss the dog clear. It was at this point, I realize what a dumb-ass thing I just did...I just CHOSE to put a wounded and pissed off bear right between my legs...what an idiot!

Bear takes a swipe and just brushes my leg. I do an oh shit, and quickly pump 5 more rounds of .357 into the bear's chest, leap off, drop the revolver and start up the tree the bear just came out of. I get about 3 ft up, look over my shoulder and see the bear has had it.

I don't tell that story often because I don't need to present further evidence to people that I'm an idiot. One of the dumbest things I ever did.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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Wow. Maybe not thinking things through in the moment, but that happens to everyone. It would've sucked to shoot Blue by accident. So even with one bad call, you corrected for it and survived. That's a story worth telling for multiple reasons, not the least being "learn from my mistakes so you don't make 'em yourself."

I've been considering that particular argument for 9mm of late. As alluded to earlier in the thread, it's actually got a good track record vs. bears. Penetration is one of its hallmarks as a cartridge, and that's one of the prime things you look for in this instance. It's really hard to argue that .357 hardcast is sufficiently large diameter but 9mm hardball somehow is not. I see 147 grain FMJ comes in flat nose - looks an awful lot like those Keith semiwadcutters to my eye. Am I wrong?

I mean, 10/10 for style with a revolver. Obviously. But I have a hard time with the math where 1 round of .44 Magnum is better than 3 of 9mm Luger.

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That’s a heck of a hunting story, front sight.

It confirms My suspicions that a .357 is enough for anything east of the Mississippi. Especially if one can shoot it fast and accurately.

I just got back from a trip to my parents property in Northern MI. It’s a long, narrow lake property & the cabin is small so I haul my camper up there for my family to sleep in. The trash is deposited in a “raccoon cage” at the end of the long driveway/road. One Night last week, a black bear was able to force the latch and made a mess. I saw the tracks the next morning cleaning it up Because it rained all week, and it certainly wasn’t a raccoon. I always have my SP-101 .357 mag on me; but I think black bears are generally adverse to human encounter and not confrontational (unless mama bear and Cubs). Just looking for an easy meal. We put a more robust latch on the trash cage.


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Re: Handgun Suggestions for Back Country Camping & CCW

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Full disclosure, I switched to .44 mag after that incident. But consider, hunting is different from self protection. A 9mm will be fine for defense against bears; usually better than a .44 magnum. But a .44 magnum was much more effective as a hunting cartridge. Black bears are smallish and not nearly as tough as people would have you believe. With .357 mag hits, they still had a good deal of fight in them (which most used to run away). A solid hit with a .44 magnum and the fight is visibly drained, and they typically piled in about 10-15 yards.

But it's WAY easier to place a single shot precisely at a time of your choosing with a .44 magnum, than it is to hit something moving quickly toward you; which is why I tend to recommend combat pistols for bear protection.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

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