The Liberal Gun Club Forum

I've always believed that someone should obtain training/education in handling a handgun BEFORE being allowed to purchase one but that has always been an "infringement" of a person's 2A rights, according to the NRA Criminal Enterprise (NRACE) How come I'm able to walk into a gun store here in Virginia, plunk down my money, and acquire a gun WITHOUT any training or gun education whatsoever, but if I want to use the NRACE range I have to pass a test? Rule three for range use at the NRACE range in Fairfax, VA is as follows

3. All shooters must pass the NRA RANGE TEST, and complete and sign the NRA RANGE RELEASE, WAIVER, HOLD HARMLESS, INDEMNIFICATION AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT before using the NRA Range.

Gee, would be nice if they would fight for the rest of us poor souls who have to put up with uneducated, yahoo gun owners who bought their gun the day before and have no idea what safe handling is. I don't know how many times I've been swept at the range, seen idiots picking up their brass WHILE HOLDING THEIR GUNS (oh, don't worry the safety is on), etc. The fact that these yahoos can get a CHP with only 4 hours of classroom instruction makes it even more dangerous here in Virginia.

HyPOCRISY, THY NAME IS NRACE!

Leonidas wrote:I've always believed that someone should obtain training/education in handling a handgun BEFORE being allowed to purchase one but that has always been an "infringement" of a person's 2A rights, according to the NRA Criminal Enterprise (NRACE) How come I'm able to walk into a gun store here in Virginia, plunk down my money, and acquire a gun WITHOUT any training or gun education whatsoever, but if I want to use the NRACE range I have to pass a test? Rule three for range use at the NRACE range in Fairfax, VA is as follows

3. All shooters must pass the NRA RANGE TEST, and complete and sign the NRA RANGE RELEASE, WAIVER, HOLD HARMLESS, INDEMNIFICATION AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT before using the NRA Range.

Gee, would be nice if they would fight for the rest of us poor souls who have to put up with uneducated, yahoo gun owners who bought their gun the day before and have no idea what safe handling is. I don't know how many times I've been swept at the range, seen idiots picking up their brass WHILE HOLDING THEIR GUNS (oh, don't worry the safety is on), etc. The fact that these yahoos can get a CHP with only 4 hours of classroom instruction makes it even more dangerous here in Virginia.

HyPOCRISY, THY NAME IS NRACE!

Nice catch

+1

Excellent point.

As presented here, I find Leonidas' observation unconvincing.

First, the 2nd amendment is a limitation on what the government may do. There is no inconsistency for the NRA to consider a government-mandated test erected as a prerequisite to the exercise of the second amendment to be unconstitutional, while at the same time assert that private entities can require whichever test they want before strangers get to use their facilities.

Second, there is a difference between preventing someone from purchasing guns and preventing someone from shooting at a particular range. In the first case, this person is prevented from exercising their 2nd amendment right at all. In the second case, this person is prevented from shooting at one range.

lemur wrote: First, the 2nd amendment is a limitation on what the government may do. There is no inconsistency for the NRA to consider a government-mandated test erected as a prerequisite to the exercise of the second amendment to be unconstitutional, while at the same time assert that private entities can require whichever test they want before strangers get to use their facilities.

But there is already precedence in this in that the SCOTUS has upheld that mentally ill/unstable people are exempt from 2A, as are felons. How do you determine who is mentally unsuitable? Tests.

lemur wrote: Second, there is a difference between preventing someone from purchasing guns and preventing someone from shooting at a particular range. In the first case, this person is prevented from exercising their 2nd amendment right at all. In the second case, this person is prevented from shooting at one range.

Still hypocritical. NRA is saying, in effect, that you can own a gun but you can't use it, not in our range, unless we test you. If there should be no test barriers to gun ownership, why have barriers to gun usage?

Nah. There is a certain level of hypocrisy in fighting tooth and nail for uninhibited gun rights and then turn around and create your own inhibitions.

I was replying to lemur.

JayFromPA wrote:Nah. There is a certain level of hypocrisy in fighting tooth and nail for uninhibited gun rights and then turn around and create your own inhibitions.

I was replying to lemur.

+1

masonalannz wrote:

JayFromPA wrote:Nah. There is a certain level of hypocrisy in fighting tooth and nail for uninhibited gun rights and then turn around and create your own inhibitions.

I was replying to lemur.

+1

+1

JayFromPA wrote:Nah. There is a certain level of hypocrisy in fighting tooth and nail for uninhibited gun rights and then turn around and create your own inhibitions.

This is implying that someone who would defend the first amendment rights of the Westboro clowns against government infringement would then be bound to accept to propagate their message because it is their first amendment right to spout their nonsense.

Again, the Bill of Rights constrains the actions of the government. I do not have to accept to propagate an opinion I do not like, even if I think the opinion is protected by the first amendment. Nor do I have to accept that someone shoot at my facilities, even if I think that their purchasing a gun is a constitutional right which would be infringed by government-mandated testing.

I could also enforce that the only people who are welcome to protest on my private property are liberals (or must belong to a specific party on the left) while at the same time arguing that the government is constitutionally forbidden to impose such constraints on protesting.

Or I could argue that the only people welcome to worship at my church be of my religion while at the same time arguing that the constitution forbids the government to constrain who can and cannot attend religious services in general.

Nothing presented in this thread so far convinces me that there is inconsistency in the NRA's position.

Leonidas wrote:3. All shooters must pass the NRA RANGE TEST, and complete and sign the NRA RANGE RELEASE, WAIVER, HOLD HARMLESS, INDEMNIFICATION AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT before using the NRA Range.

This language sounds like a bunch of that there insurance company malarkey. Does the NRA supply cutrate insurance to ranges?

goosekiller wrote:

Leonidas wrote:3. All shooters must pass the NRA RANGE TEST, and complete and sign the NRA RANGE RELEASE, WAIVER, HOLD HARMLESS, INDEMNIFICATION AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT before using the NRA Range.

This language sounds like a bunch of that there insurance company malarkey. Does the NRA supply cutrate insurance to ranges?

I believe so.

KVoimakas wrote:

goosekiller wrote:

Leonidas wrote:3. All shooters must pass the NRA RANGE TEST, and complete and sign the NRA RANGE RELEASE, WAIVER, HOLD HARMLESS, INDEMNIFICATION AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT before using the NRA Range.

This language sounds like a bunch of that there insurance company malarkey. Does the NRA supply cutrate insurance to ranges?

I believe so.

Yes, they do...

There are many ranges that firearms owners and shooters, both NRA Members and non-members alike, benefit from due to the lower cost liability insurance they can purchase from the National Rifle Association. These ranges, in most cases, would not even exist if it weren't for the lower cost insurance coverage availability.

In addition, grant money that is also awarded, through the NRA, that allows ranges and State Park shooting ranges to build and upgrade their facilities.

http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/publ ... grants.asp

Congratulations to the 2010 NRA Public Range Fund Recipients:
Land Between the Lakes Shooting Range Development • Land Between the Lakes Association, Inc. (Golden Pond, KY)
Riverton Shooting Facility • Riverton Shooting Club (City of Riverton, Wyoming)
Sleepy Creek Wildlife Management Area Shooting Range • West Virginia Department of Natural Resources
Knik River Public Use Area - Maud Road Extension Rifle Range • Alaska Department of Natural Resources

Congratulations to the 2009 NRA Public Range Fund Recipients:
Kumbrabow State Forest Shooting Range • West Virginia Division of Natural Resources
Marsh Wildlife Management Area • South Carolina Department of Natural Resources
Woodbury Wildlife Management Area • South Carolina Department of Natural Resources
Belfast Wildlife Management Area • South Carolina Department of Natural Resources
Cedar Creek Shooting Range • U.S. Forest Service, Georgia
Chief Logan Wildlife Management Area Shooting Range • West Virginia Division of Natural Resources


Regards,

CarolinaHiker

CarolinaHiker wrote:There are many ranges that firearms owners and shooters, both NRA Members and non-members alike, benefit from due to the lower cost liability insurance they can purchase from the National Rifle Association. These ranges, in most cases, would not even exist if it weren't for the lower cost insurance coverage availability.

Got any numbers?