The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Yeah, I saw this on another forum, headlined as "DADT for guns."

I replied that I don't think we need another law dictating what people can/can't talk about. You know, 1st Amendment and all that. Some people don't like free speech when it's about them.

Stupid pediatrician trying to force his crazy holistic health approach on people.

If you don't like your doctor find another one!

Pointless fucking around and pandering has become epidemic in the political leaders of this country, it seems.

What if the doctor is your shrink and he's prescribing horse doses of antipsychotics?

judgepacker wrote:What if the doctor is your shrink and he's prescribing horse doses of antipsychotics?

Is this a confession?



Obviously, pediatricians ask about all sorts of things. They asked about if we had our kids in preschool, developmental milestones, what type of diapers we were using, and even if we had properly secured any firearms. I never thought twice about it. And if the patient doesn't want to cooperate with the way the doctor wants to run his practice then the doctor has the right to dismiss them. See ya.

judgepacker wrote:What if the doctor is your shrink and he's prescribing horse doses of antipsychotics?

In California, if a patient is a threat to themselves (suicide) or a threat to others, a physician, trained mental health therapist or even a cop can place the person on a 72 hour hold for psychiatric evaluation (5150 procedure). The focus is on verbalized threats.

masonalannz wrote:Pointless fucking around and pandering has become epidemic in the political leaders of this country, it seems.

Yup, shilling for the NRA for political contributions.

That is the kind of response that projects the image of gun owners are paranoid fools. My children's pediatrician has asked that question as well. I tell her, they are stored securely. That is that.

I know that these zealots don't really care about the image they are creating, but it makes it more difficult for people with less extreme views and paranoia. Like you said Mark, doctors are not obligated to see anyone they don't want to. Neither are patients. Find a new doctor, don't restrict free speech to protect your paranoid ideation.

Caliman73 wrote:That is the kind of response that projects the image of gun owners are paranoid fools. My children's pediatrician has asked that question as well. I tell her, they are stored securely. That is that.

I know that these zealots don't really care about the image they are creating, but it makes it more difficult for people with less extreme views and paranoia. Like you said Mark, doctors are not obligated to see anyone they don't want to. Neither are patients. Find a new doctor, don't restrict free speech to protect your paranoid ideation.

Physicians like a lot of other professionals in California and other states are "mandated reporters" of child, elder and dependent adult abuse and neglect. If the physician has probable cause to suspect abuse or neglect, I can see them probing further with questions, but like law enforcement I don't see any justification for going on "fishing expeditions" for information.

highdesert wrote:

Caliman73 wrote:That is the kind of response that projects the image of gun owners are paranoid fools. My children's pediatrician has asked that question as well. I tell her, they are stored securely. That is that.

I know that these zealots don't really care about the image they are creating, but it makes it more difficult for people with less extreme views and paranoia. Like you said Mark, doctors are not obligated to see anyone they don't want to. Neither are patients. Find a new doctor, don't restrict free speech to protect your paranoid ideation.

Physicians like a lot of other professionals in California and other states are "mandated reporters" of child, elder and dependent adult abuse and neglect. If the physician has probable cause to suspect abuse or neglect, I can see them probing further with questions, but like law enforcement I don't see any justification for going on "fishing expeditions" for information.

Maybe I just trust my doctor more than most people, but I think it's perfectly legitimate for any physician to ask a patient about firearm ownership and storage. It falls under doctor-patient confidentiality. The patient should have no reason to suspect that the information will be used against them. On the other hand, I can see instances in which the doctor can better do their job (protecting your health) by knowing if there are guns in a house, both for mental health care and pediatric care.

highdesert wrote:

Caliman73 wrote:That is the kind of response that projects the image of gun owners are paranoid fools. My children's pediatrician has asked that question as well. I tell her, they are stored securely. That is that.

I know that these zealots don't really care about the image they are creating, but it makes it more difficult for people with less extreme views and paranoia. Like you said Mark, doctors are not obligated to see anyone they don't want to. Neither are patients. Find a new doctor, don't restrict free speech to protect your paranoid ideation.

Physicians like a lot of other professionals in California and other states are "mandated reporters" of child, elder and dependent adult abuse and neglect. If the physician has probable cause to suspect abuse or neglect, I can see them probing further with questions, but like law enforcement I don't see any justification for going on "fishing expeditions" for information.

Mandated reporters do not operate on "probable cause" or "reasonable suspicion" like law enforcement has to. I am a mandated reporter. If I have any reason to believe whether it is information I observe, or information that is reported to me, I have an obligation to report to the local authorities. There is no "judgment call" there is, if you see, hear, or suspect...report. I have a young man on my caseload who calls me about once a year to say that staff are sexually abusing him. There has NEVER, EVER, in the 10 years I have been working with him, been ANY shred of evidence that he was abused, but every time, I have to call APS and report and they have to investigate.

Anyway, back to the subject. It is a doctors duty to evaluate the risk factors in their patient's lives to give them advice and treatment planning. If I drink more that 3 drinks a day every day, my doctor will probably advise me to seek help for substance abuse. While I do not believe in the hyperbolic reports that a gun in the house equals inevitable death. A gun that is not secured raises the risk of injury when you have curious children running around. It is not illegal to have unsecured firearms in the home, even in California. The thing is that if a child gets ahold of an unsecured firearm and injures/kills himself or others then the adult is liable because leaving a loaded, unsecured firearm in the reach of a child is a criminally negligent act.

I've been asked this question before, and i simply respond that I have no children, and I own a safe. Past that, i really don't feel that the question is pertinent. Sorry. I just don't. Honestly, even if i did have kids it seems like suggesting that they be secured is about as far as it should go. I don't subscribe to the view that firearms ownership is a public health concern, unless there is a standing mental health issue.

There was a news story a while back, something about a doctor declining patients and firing employees who owned guns. That seems like utter bullshit to me. Enumerated rights are just that, and frankly, it's really not a business owners place to decide if i should exercise them, particularly on my own time. I know that others disagree with me on this topic, but I also don't think that a business that is open to the public should be able to dictate whether or not licensed ccw holders can carry in their shop.

AmirMortal wrote:I've been asked this question before, and i simply respond that I have no children, and I own a safe. Past that, i really don't feel that the question is pertinent. Sorry. I just don't. Honestly, even if i did have kids it seems like suggesting that they be secured is about as far as it should go. I don't subscribe to the view that firearms ownership is a public health concern, unless there is a standing mental health issue.

There was a news story a while back, something about a doctor declining patients and firing employees who owned guns. That seems like utter bullshit to me. Enumerated rights are just that, and frankly, it's really not a business owners place to decide if i should exercise them, particularly on my own time. I know that others disagree with me on this topic, but I also don't think that a business that is open to the public should be able to dictate whether or not licensed ccw holders can carry in their shop.

But you are mixing apples and oranges now. A doctor not seeing patients or firing people for holding a particular political view is one thing. A doctor not wanting to see you because you wont answer questions that he feels are essential to the way he practices medicine is an entirely different beast.

Firearm deaths in children from unsecured weapons are a serious concern. As a parent, its definitely a concern of mine. While I would never have touch my dad's guns, I am not nearly as frightening to my children as he was to me. A pediatrician will ask you about all sorts of things.... what you do for a living, what sort of care your child receives when you are not there, how much education do you have, do you have pool, cloth or disposable, etc. That is their job. Some won't do it. Some don't care. If you don't want to answer those questions, find the doctors that don't care.

As far as a private business saying they don't want guns on their property - its their property they get to decide what people can and can't bring. If a shop says "no outside food or drinks" that is their right - even though you know its only so you will buy the crap inside.

There's nothing in the BoR stating "the right to keep and bear outside food and drink". As i said, i know that many disagree with my view on this topic. I don't think you should have too give up any of our rights just because you are on publicly accessible private property. First, fourth, fourteenth, doesn't matter. There is the law and then there is what's right.

If a shop owner said "all women on my property must wear a burka and remain silent", how would that go over? Would a chourt uphold such a ridiculous infringement of rights? What id they said blacks have to use separate water fountains?

AmirMortal wrote:There's nothing in the BoR stating "the right to keep and bear outside food and drink".

There is also nothing in the BoR that says that blacks are equal.

I keep my values out of the interactions with the people I work with but still recognize possibilities. My job is to educate, not replace another person's beliefs with mine.

High risk: buying weed at carwashes, leaving loaded guns where kids can get them, sleeping with strangers met via Craigslist.

I openly discuss risks as the potential to have an unwanted consequence. No mention of the devil, values, or what would your mother think.

Doctors are free to ask what they wish. If the doctor has little to no knowledge of firearms I do not see what help they could be. Give me a pamplet? It also seems that far more small children die each year from hotdogs, plastic bags, swimming pools, etc than firearms.

I do not think that the information should go on any form to the government (medicaid paperwork), unless it is important (certain mental issues for example).

As Hillary's Healthcare did not pass, we are all allowed to choose different doctors. It seems like that would be the most logical solution if you disagree with the one you currently have.

I have thought about what I would do if a doctor asked me such a question.
If the doctor seems to be hoplophobic (like Carolyn McCarthy wanting to ban the shoulder thing that goes up [barrel shroud]) I would look for a new doctor.
If the doctor is a firearms enthusiust I suspect I would look forward to checkups.
If the doctor seems to focus on firearms, while ignoring other issues that could cause concern I suspect I would look for another doctor.

IMHO if a doctor asks you about firearms in the home because you have children, they should also ask you if your car has anti-lock brakes, quality of your car seat, stress the importance of changing brake pads, tires, etc in accordance to your owners manual. Etc.

I think that a lot of people are concerned about doctors asking questions concerning firearms, because some politicians have vocally attempted to make firearms a "health issue". Because of that, some people see doctors asking those questions as an extension of what those politicians have discussed.


Charlie

I can see psychiatrist asking such questions but a family doctor unless they feel a concern should just stick to their chosen craft of healing. Whats next lecturing someone on their choice of helmuts when riding a motorcycle? Family councelors yes but family doctors no. None of ours have ever asked and frankly in this area probably expect people to have them.

eelj wrote:I can see psychiatrist asking such questions but a family doctor unless they feel a concern should just stick to their chosen craft of healing. Whats next lecturing someone on their choice of helmuts when riding a motorcycle? Family councelors yes but family doctors no. None of ours have ever asked and frankly in this area probably expect people to have them.

remember this is a pediatrician. He simply wants to make sure that ifyou have firearms that you remember it's importants to secure them around kids. I have never been askedthis by a family doctor.

personally, if my pediatrician didn't ask me this I would be concerned about his interest in my childs well being. Healthcare is as much prevention as it is healing.

mark wrote:personally, if my pediatrician didn't ask me this I would be concerned about his interest in my childs well being. Healthcare is as much prevention as it is healing.

I am not saying a doctor shouldn't ask about firearms in the home, but shouldn't the doctor also inquire about the brakes, tires, etc on your car, if you have a swimming pool, secure chemicals, plastic bags, etc in your house. What about telling the parent of the child that they should consider anti-lock brakes on the car?

Apparently doctors also needs to have conversations about not microwaving jawbreakers and the proper way of prepairing hotdogs.


Charlie

Leucoandro wrote:Doctors are free to ask what they wish. If the doctor has little to no knowledge of firearms I do not see what help they could be. Give me a pamplet? It also seems that far more small children die each year from hotdogs, plastic bags, swimming pools, etc than firearms.

I do not think that the information should go on any form to the government (medicaid paperwork), unless it is important (certain mental issues for example).

I have thought about what I would do if a doctor asked me such a question.

I think that a lot of people are concerned about doctors asking questions concerning firearms, because some politicians have vocally attempted to make firearms a "health issue". Because of that, some people see doctors asking those questions as an extension of what those politicians have discussed.

Charlie

Personally, I have never been asked by a physician if I owned guns or not..not having children, have never been in a peditrician's office as an adult. But I know I have seen mental health questions on doctor's forms about if I felt depressed...other crap like that. I leave those blank, or label them "N/A", as they are irrelevant. No doctor has ever challenged me on NOT answering those questions.

If a doctor, for any reason, would try and pry into my personal life on firearms ownership, they can rest assured I will not answer those questions and will get an "irrelevant...none of your business" from me. And that would include even if I had children and was asked by their doctor. I would advise anyone to dismiss those questions, as that information will certainly not ever be used in your favor, and as mentioned above, is meant to feed bogus attempts to classify firearms as some BS health concern - it's bunk.

I also will not do the eletronic palm print or thumb print scan...I only have one doctor who had that, yet I witness so many walk in and just plop their scan into a system that they have no idea how it is used, without question. It amazes me how many lemmings will blindly mouth off or do anyything requested of them in an official office, without questioning.

I read everything completely before I sign it...anything in question gets asked about and clarrified. You would be surprised how much, upon questioning, is not even necessary. Same thing with SSI numbers...WAY more people and agencies ask for that number than really need it. I advise people question the absolute necessity of having that each time it is requested...often, I question it and it is not an absolute requirement. If it's not, they don't need it or get it from me.


Regards,

CarolinaHiker

I realize there are many here who take issue with the National Rifle Association...but, specifically on the issue of guns around children, and aids to teach this safely lesson to your children, the NRA "Eddie Eagle Program" is fantastic, with proven results, and very inexpensive for materials.

Mainly structured for Kindergarten to 3rd, or perhaps 4th grade level...it takes no political side, nor encourages gun ownership. Rather, it is a very effective set of materials for young children to teach the [4] key safety lessons should a child come into contact with a firearm :

STOP
Don't Touch
Leave the Area
Tell an Adult

Program Features and Endorsements :

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/info.asp

Program Materials :

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/materials.asp
(typical package is : Parent's Brochure - Program DVD or Video - Intructor Guide - Student Workbook - Reward Stickers / Poster)

Parent's Guide to Gun Safety :

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/infoparents.asp


Regards,

CarolinaHiker