AR scope recommendations?

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I'm looking for a decent scope for my new toy (an AR: DS-15 https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/dsi-feat ... fle-black/) and would like some advice from the more knowledgeable others here. Pickings are a little slim nowadays (as you've probably seen and heard first-hand). So, a lot of my options are pretty much limited. Please correct my thinking if it's gone astray or if I've misunderstood something. Seriously. This is a learning process. Just, please, be kind about it.

Features I'm pretty sure I want (apart from standard issue elevation, windage, focus):
  • Close to mid range zoom: 1-4? 1-6?
  • First focal plane: I like that the reticle scales with zoom. Not disorienting or squint-inducing like SFP
  • Adjustable parallax: I want to have the reticle on the same focal plane as the target
  • Etched reticle: especially important if illumination battery dies
  • Simple, uncluttered (but not minimalist) reticle: I want more info that just a single dot, but don't need lines and lines of numbers or clutter everywhere
  • Decent price point: $300 is approaching max budget, esp. if I have to also get mounts and flip-up lens covers. Willing to go a little higher for the right gear, but not much higher.
What in your opinion, experience, or expertise is trash gear and what isn't? Any specific tactical scopes worth looking into? Am I expecting too much? What considerations should I take into account as someone who requires reading glasses?

[Edit to include link to my HW]
Last edited by Outpost716 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Leupold. They've quite a selection from low to high prices. Excellent optical arrangements, outstanding contrast, and almost everything you mentioned...and that's with their lower priced models.

The one caveat is your upper $ limit. If you can push it upward about $50...

If you have an Amazon Visa card, when you get close to $375 or so they sometimes offer a 12 month no interest payment option...

At any rate, Leupold makes some of the finest optics available. And they're made here. I'm mean up the street and around a few corners and then down the street "here" here.
Subliterate Buffooery of the right...
Literate Ignorance of the left...
We Are So Screwed

Re: AR scope recommendations?

6
If you're pretty firm on the budget, I'd look at the Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6, or the Primary Arms 1-6 SLx series. Both are second focal plane, and both are illuminated, which is nice because in close range situations with no magnification, they can function like a red dot. Both can be less than ideal in bright sunlight, as the illumination can get washed out. That said, you can always do the old closed front cover trick. For the price point, those two are the scopes I'd be looking at. I think first focal plane is gonna be pretty tough to find under $1k, especially in today's market. From a quick search, I see the Primary Arms scopes are in stock at PA's website for $289, and the Vortex 1-6 is in stock for $299 at Fleet Farm with free shipping. Youtube has some comparison vids of these two, so you can look at both reticles side-by-side and find your preference. Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure Primary Arms now offers a lifetime warranty. I know for sure Vortex has a very good no-questions asked warranty, and they're made in the US. I think you'd be happy with either of these.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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featureless wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:42 pm I have a Leupold 1.5x4 firedot I adore. It's a bit more than your $300. Good glass and light weight.

This one might work. In stock and only slightly above your budget.
https://www.amazon.com/Leupold-VX-3i-1- ... 0mm&sr=8-9
I've checked out the Leupolds and liked what I saw. I *really* liked the reticle design. They're a bit out of my price range, though... BTW, how's the performance between one-eye and two-eye? Seems like that 1.5 lower limit would be... (is disruptive the word I'm looking for?)?
Last edited by Outpost716 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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MSPavpro wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:02 am If you're pretty firm on the budget, I'd look at the Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6, or the Primary Arms 1-6 SLx series. Both are second focal plane, and both are illuminated, which is nice because in close range situations with no magnification, they can function like a red dot.
Yeah, budgets suck. Champagne dreams and a beer budget. 🤷‍♂️ What are you gonna do, right?

In talking with a rep at my local toy store, I started to check out the Vortex series. In fact, just today I discovered they also make the Strike Eagle in a 1-8x 24. I realize this is a little beyond what I need for the actual range for a shot (and it's not FFP -which I'm willing to suck-up), and that +2 extra (beyond 1-6x) also provides a little more looksie- hey, what's going on down there a little further, just out of range?-for (ahem) shall we say,... situations we fear will happen that we hope won't. [Bluntly, SHTF, social unrest, Proud Boys not standing by or whatever.]
MSPavpro wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:02 amBoth can be less than ideal in bright sunlight, as the illumination can get washed out. That said, you can always do the old closed front cover trick.
I don't know this trick. You mind explaining?
MSPavpro wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:02 amFor the price point, those two are the scopes I'd be looking at. I think first focal plane is gonna be pretty tough to find under $1k, especially in today's market. From a quick search, I see the Primary Arms scopes are in stock at PA's website for $289, and the Vortex 1-6 is in stock for $299 at Fleet Farm with free shipping.
Noted. Thanks for the homework! I'll check that out after my meeting!
MSPavpro wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:02 amYoutube has some comparison vids of these two, so you can look at both reticles side-by-side and find your preference. Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure Primary Arms now offers a lifetime warranty. I know for sure Vortex has a very good no-questions asked warranty, and they're made in the US. I think you'd be happy with either of these.
As much as I love the idea of "YouTube University" some of the videos are really confusing; and (predictably), some have a financial incentive for their suggestions.

Thank you for the comment! I appreciate you.
Be well!


[Edits because I derped the quotes]
Last edited by Outpost716 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Outpost716 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:49 am
Stiff wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:07 pm For that budget, the closest to your specs would be a Primary Arms 1-6x.
Thanks for the tip! I was looking at PA but didn't know they have a 1-6x with a FFP. I'll go check it out.
You’re welcome.

I have a Bushnell 1-4x FFP that I bought for around $150 several years ago, and it’s perfectly adequate. Checking the prices today it’s closer to $300, thus within your range.

While having magnification above 4x is nice, it’s not entirely necessary. The Army finds that the ACOG 4x works fine for the M4. A lot of sniper rifles in WWII used 2-3x optics.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Outpost716 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:48 am
featureless wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:42 pm I have a Leupold 1.5x4 firedot I adore. It's a bit more than your $300. Good glass and light weight.

This one might work. In stock and only slightly above your budget.
https://www.amazon.com/Leupold-VX-3i-1- ... 0mm&sr=8-9
I've checked out the Leupolds and liked what I saw. I *really* liked the reticle design. They're a bit out of my price range, though... BTW, how's the performance between one-eye and two-eye? Seems like that 1.5 lower limit would be... (is disruptive the word I'm looking for?)?
Yes, Leupold makes nice scopes without all the tacticool crap that is useless to most. And they are lighter than the competition.

The 1.5x works pretty well for both eyes open shooting--not perfect but not a bad compromise to save a bunch of money over a true 1x. They offer several different reticles, but I like a simple crosshair. Don't know what to do with all that other shit on some of the other optics anyway. :)

I'd stick with a max of 4x in your price range. The eyebox, clarity, etc. is severely compromised (near useless) on cheaper scopes at magnification above 4x (from my research, not experience).

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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I really love my Nikon 1-4 Dangerous Game with German No 4 reticle. Unfortunately, I see they are discontinued and now unobtanium.

I have a Millet 1-4 on one of my AR’s that I got a good deal on and seems decent.
'Sorry stupid people but there are some definite disadvantages to being stupid."

-John Cleese

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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featureless wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:29 amYes, Leupold makes nice scopes without all the tacticool crap that is useless to most. And they are lighter than the competition.

The 1.5x works pretty well for both eyes open shooting--not perfect but not a bad compromise to save a bunch of money over a true 1x. They offer several different reticles, but I like a simple crosshair. Don't know what to do with all that other shit on some of the other optics anyway. :)
Yeah, I was diggin' the simplicity of the crosshair. I'm only starting to learn and understand the additional info (eg., range-finding), but I've only really dipped my toe in that pool of knowledge and I'm think I'm going to have a lot more to learn when it comes to "hold over".
featureless wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:29 amI'd stick with a max of 4x in your price range. The eyebox, clarity, etc. is severely compromised (near useless) on cheaper scopes at magnification above 4x (from my research, not experience).
I think you raise really good points. I'm probably going to aim for a 1-4x or 1-6x. I realize the latter isn't truly necessary for target shooting (given range of the AR), but it might come in handy for checking things out just beyond said target (and that kinda ties into the whole "pay attention to your surroundings and know what lies beyond your target"-thinking.
Last edited by Outpost716 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Stiff wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:07 pm
I have a Bushnell 1-4x FFP that I bought for around $150 several years ago, and it’s perfectly adequate. Checking the prices today it’s closer to $300, thus within your range.
Youch. It sucks to be tardy to the party. OOF. If only I knew then what I know now... Another reason I want the pandemic to be resolved and the election to be done: normal prices.
Stiff wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:07 pmWhile having magnification above 4x is nice, it’s not entirely necessary. The Army finds that the ACOG 4x works fine for the M4. A lot of sniper rifles in WWII used 2-3x optics.
Good points. So, really, (and this is an honest question) what kind of actual distances are we talking about when we're zoomed at 2-4x? I'm sorry if that's a super-duper noob question, but I honestly don't know. This is my first foray into optics (no need for them back in the day when I was military).


[Edits because I derped on the quotes]
Last edited by Outpost716 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Outpost716 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:46 pm ...What considerations should I take into account as someone who requires reading glasses?
So, anyone else here need reading glasses in everyday life? Without glasses, my vision is good starting about 12"-ish in front of me. Otherwise, I can see like a hawk. Am I going to potentially be running into issues when using a scope? Maybe that's why FFP seems like it would work better for me (because the SFP is closer to my eye).

Anyone have thoughts or experience with that?

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Mason wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:07 am I really love my Nikon 1-4 Dangerous Game with German No 4 reticle. Unfortunately, I see they are discontinued and now unobtanium.
Well look at that. I found the tease in the room! 😉🤣
Mason wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:07 amI have a Millet 1-4 on one of my AR’s that I got a good deal on and seems decent.
I've never heard the name before. I'll have to check it out.

[Edits because I derped the quotes]

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Outpost716 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:19 am
Outpost716 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:46 pm ...What considerations should I take into account as someone who requires reading glasses?
So, anyone else here need reading glasses in everyday life? Without glasses, my vision is good starting about 12"-ish in front of me. Otherwise, I can see like a hawk. Am I going to potentially be running into issues when using a scope? Maybe that's why FFP seems like it would work better for me (because the SFP is closer to my eye).

Anyone have thoughts or experience with that?
Not an issue. Remove glasses and adjust the scope's focus and it's good to go thereafter. At least, that's how it works for my "need reading glasses" eyes.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Rust wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:03 pm 1-4 or 1-6, ffp, with adjustable parallax.
I don't think it exists. Have you found something like that?
I want to say that, yes, I've found this and I'm gonna say it was a Monstrum (?). I'll have to go back and double-check.

I'm not familiar with the name, then again, there's a lot I'm not familiar with. I don't know what I don't know. 😉😂

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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rolandson wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:04 pm Leupold. They've quite a selection from low to high prices. Excellent optical arrangements, outstanding contrast, and almost everything you mentioned...and that's with their lower priced models.

The one caveat is your upper $ limit. If you can push it upward about $50...
Not gonna lie. My DS-15 (https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/dsi-feat ... fle-black/) was a pretty penny. It's what was available for NY state without the additional cost of conversion; and it's what I had to work with (what with the pandemic and election, supply-side crises and all). Would putting a Leupold on it seem like putting a spoiler or puncture-proof wheels on a Yugo? (I know that's a funny way of putting it, but I think it gets my question out there).
rolandson wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:04 pmIf you have an Amazon Visa card, when you get close to $375 or so they sometimes offer a 12 month no interest payment option...
Damn it. If my other half complains about me doing this, you're getting a call! LOL
Seriously though, I keep forgetting that's an option. Thank you!
rolandson wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:04 pmAt any rate, Leupold makes some of the finest optics available. And they're made here. I'm mean up the street and around a few corners and then down the street "here" here.
Thank you. I appreciate your thoughts.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Outpost716 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:21 am
Mason wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:07 am I really love my Nikon 1-4 Dangerous Game with German No 4 reticle. Unfortunately, I see they are discontinued and now unobtanium.
Well look at that. I found the tease in the room! 😉🤣
Mason wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:07 amI have a Millet 1-4 on one of my AR’s that I got a good deal on and seems decent.
I've never heard the name before. I'll have to check it out.

[Edits because I derped the quotes]
I have the Millet 1x4 DM1 and the 1x6 DM2, they're OK scopes, reasonable eye relief, a tad on the heavy side, I do like the reticle but the illumination is useless in full sun. In you price range, I would also consider Athlon and the Crossfire series from Vortex.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Outpost716 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:13 am
Stiff wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:07 pmWhile having magnification above 4x is nice, it’s not entirely necessary. The Army finds that the ACOG 4x works fine for the M4. A lot of sniper rifles in WWII used 2-3x optics.
Good points. So, really, (and this is an honest question) what kind of actual distances are we talking about when we're zoomed at 2-4x? I'm sorry if that's a super-duper noob question, but I honestly don't know. This is my first foray into optics (no need for them back in the day when I was military).
Hunters use 2-4x for targets up to 200 meters away, but they’re trying to make a clean heart shot, about the size of your fist. As I mentioned earlier the Army uses 4X for the M4 carbine to reach human targets 500-600 meters away, which means it’s enough magnification to hit a 16” wide torso at that distance.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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featureless wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:28 am
Outpost716 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:19 am
Outpost716 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:46 pm ...What considerations should I take into account as someone who requires reading glasses?
So, anyone else here need reading glasses in everyday life? Without glasses, my vision is good starting about 12"-ish in front of me. Otherwise, I can see like a hawk. Am I going to potentially be running into issues when using a scope? Maybe that's why FFP seems like it would work better for me (because the SFP is closer to my eye).

Anyone have thoughts or experience with that?
Not an issue. Remove glasses and adjust the scope's focus and it's good to go thereafter. At least, that's how it works for my "need reading glasses" eyes.
[Mr. Burns impersonation] Eeeeexcellent.
I kinda figured the scope's focus *might* have a positive effect (not needing the glasses)... but, I was a tad concerned I'd have to get some sort of sports lenses. Thank you for confirming!

[Edits for clarity]
Last edited by Outpost716 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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spara wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:11 pm I have the Millet 1x4 DM1 and the 1x6 DM2, they're OK scopes, reasonable eye relief, a tad on the heavy side, I do like the reticle but the illumination is useless in full sun. In you price range, I would also consider Athlon and the Crossfire series from Vortex.
I'll definitely check out the Millet scopes, but first another question [footnote: y'all, please let me know if I've got too many questions, okay?]:

What is 'eye relief'? Is that the distance between my eye and the eyepiece of the scope? (I feel like I should know this, but I haven't found anything that *really* explains it. It's just a mention. Not that I've had a bunch of time to *really* dig for the info).


↑↑↑Please disregard. Got it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_relief I was lazy and forgot Wikipedia existed.

I'm all about the illumination when I need it, but don't want to rely on it for daytime shooting.
Okay, Athlon is another name I've seen around. And, of course, Vortex.
How do I discern what's hype and what's not?
Last edited by Outpost716 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Stiff wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:18 pm
Outpost716 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:13 am
Stiff wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:07 pmWhile having magnification above 4x is nice, it’s not entirely necessary. The Army finds that the ACOG 4x works fine for the M4. A lot of sniper rifles in WWII used 2-3x optics.
Good points. So, really, (and this is an honest question) what kind of actual distances are we talking about when we're zoomed at 2-4x? I'm sorry if that's a super-duper noob question, but I honestly don't know. This is my first foray into optics (no need for them back in the day when I was military).
Hunters use 2-4x for targets up to 200 meters away, but they’re trying to make a clean heart shot, about the size of your fist. As I mentioned earlier the Army uses 4X for the M4 carbine to reach human targets 500-600 meters away, which means it’s enough magnification to hit a 16” wide torso at that distance.
Thank you! Not that I ignored that initially, but now that you explained that way, it makes more sense. I think (the way I was asking) was more along the lines of, At 2x power, how far away am I seeing? At 3x? 4x? And I think (correct me if I'm wrong), that's where the hashes come in... And if that is correct, then a first focal plane isn't going to ever change that distance, it's going to maintain that scale (if I'm using the right words here).

I hope I'm making some sense or that I'm not over-thinking all this.

Re: AR scope recommendations?

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Outpost716 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:46 pm
Stiff wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:18 pm
Outpost716 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:13 am
Stiff wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:07 pmWhile having magnification above 4x is nice, it’s not entirely necessary. The Army finds that the ACOG 4x works fine for the M4. A lot of sniper rifles in WWII used 2-3x optics.
Good points. So, really, (and this is an honest question) what kind of actual distances are we talking about when we're zoomed at 2-4x? I'm sorry if that's a super-duper noob question, but I honestly don't know. This is my first foray into optics (no need for them back in the day when I was military).
Hunters use 2-4x for targets up to 200 meters away, but they’re trying to make a clean heart shot, about the size of your fist. As I mentioned earlier the Army uses 4X for the M4 carbine to reach human targets 500-600 meters away, which means it’s enough magnification to hit a 16” wide torso at that distance.
Thank you! Not that I ignored that initially, but now that you explained that way, it makes more sense. I think (the way I was asking) was more along the lines of, At 2x power, how far away am I seeing? At 3x? 4x? And I think (correct me if I'm wrong), that's where the hashes come in... And if that is correct, then a first focal plane isn't going to ever change that distance, it's going to maintain that scale (if I'm using the right words here).

I hope I'm making some sense or that I'm not over-thinking all this.
The math is simple. Having 4x magnification means objects at 400m look like they’re at 100m. If the furthest distance that your naked eye can clearly identify a human target is 600m, then the 4x scope multiplies it to 2400m.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

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