The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Caliman73 wrote:All that we can act upon in a free society is behavior that threatens the safety of the public significantly enough so that the rights of the individual in question must be forfeited to preserve the rights of others. That is an extremely delicate balance that unfortunately is not usually determined until after a significant crime has been committed.

Very true.

When someone commits a violent crime for money, people say "lock him up!" But if the perpetrator has mental illness, people say, "he should have been locked up before he had a chance to commit a crime." Interesting double standard, that.

Simmer down wrote:Maybe the Reps will blame the shootings all on Palin and sacrifice her and her "politcal future."

I was hoping she'd fall off an iceberg and get eaten by a leapard seal, but hey, beggers can't be choosers... +1!

For those who think carrying is a bad idea: It would only have took one other person present "carrying" to lessen the # of the fallen.

And +1 73 and MntMan.

Grove wrote:

mark wrote: Grove doesn't like it - and there are actually quite a few firearms owners who don't - for a variety of reasons I imagine. There are even more who aren't too fond of open carry. Firearms owners cover a surprisingly wide swath of all of the political issues.

Thanks , Mark. Couldn't have said it any better myself!

In no way am I trying to be an Open Carry nazi. Frankly, I think OC is foolish.

That said, I moved to Texas in 1995. In 1996, they passed the Concealed Carry law.

Our violent crime rate has plummeted since then - even vs. the national average. I was leery of the concept at first - as was the Dallas chief of police. He published an open apology in 2000 touting the CCL as the reason our state has gotten a lot less lawless.

I don't have my CCL. I don't need one. Every time I go out, I know my fellow citizens are packing. Statistically, one out of every 12 Texans has a concealed weapon - legally, certified, trained. If I go to a gas station at 3 am for smokes, I know the granny in the oldsmobile nearby might have a .357 in her purse. Again, our violent crime rate has dropped like a rock vs. the national average.

In the end, that stupid catchphrase turns out to be correct. An armed society is a polite society. We also expanded the Castle Doctrine in this state in 2007, and I can now carry - without a permit - a firearm in my car. There is no trepidation in my mind about this any more. I know that, if someone decides to violate my rights criminally, I get to blow them the fuck away. Might sleep overnight in jail, but there will be no charges pressed if I can prove that my life was in danger, and I was right to drop the hammer.

The numbers don't lie. That's all I'm saying.

Wow, I wish I could stop that damn bot. That's 8 posts so far.

AmirMortal wrote:Wow, I wish I could stop that damn bot. That's 8 posts so far.

Yeah, someone has figured something out with the bots, I need to see if there is anything I can do ... a LOT of them lately.

For those who think carrying is a bad idea: It would only have took one other person present "carrying" to lessen the # of the fallen.

I understand there was a ccl on site. He said in essence that bodys were too tightly packed to use the gun. I think he was one of the three who contained whackboy.

cris wrote:For those who think carrying is a bad idea: It would only have took one other person present "carrying" to lessen the # of the fallen.

I understand there was a ccl on site. He said in essence that bodys were too tightly packed to use the gun. I think he was one of the three who contained whackboy.

But that is the sign of a responsible gun owner that the public who hates guns will always ignore: The one who actually wants to improve society. But, as we all know, guns are pure evil and are only used to kill babies and never to liberate those who need protection from true evil, and not just the evil made up by housewives who are offended by violent video games.

flemco I just got home from work and if you are reading this what I meant was loosing BIG in 2012, not just a few seats but the whole thing. If they can muzzle the few in their party who have forgotten the AWB fiasco they could not only maintain but possibly gain some seats back. The AWB ban started a snowball that started with loosing the house and kept growing untill it gave us shrub in 2000, I'm not the only one that thinks that Bill Clinton and Diane Feinstein have said that themselves. I think there is a lot of unfinnished work to be done in DC and we don't need a very toxic debate over the 2nd amendment taking up time and money.

Grove wrote: Sorry to disagree, but I think our Illinois gun laws are just fine. They could even tighten them up a bit in my opinion! I just hope we can hang on to the reputation of being 1 of only 2 states that don't allow concealed carry! I'm fast becoming a minority on this forum for these beliefs .

If the Dems pass their 66% income tax increase I think concealed carry will become a real possibility in the next Republican dominated legislature along with the R governor who will replace Quinn in four years. Other than concealed carry and some minor (in my opinion) NFA restrictions I agree that Illinois is nowhere near as bad as NY, NJ, Mass and CA. You can carry a cased and unloaded weapon with a loaded magazine in the case on your person or anywhere in your vehicle as long as you have a firearm owners id card which is not hard to get.

wishbone wrote:

Grove wrote: Sorry to disagree, but I think our Illinois gun laws are just fine. They could even tighten them up a bit in my opinion! I just hope we can hang on to the reputation of being 1 of only 2 states that don't allow concealed carry! I'm fast becoming a minority on this forum for these beliefs .

If the Dems pass their 66% income tax increase I think concealed carry will become a real possibility in the next Republican dominated legislature along with the R governor who will replace Quinn in four years. Other than concealed carry and some minor (in my opinion) NFA restrictions I agree that Illinois is nowhere near as bad as NY, NJ, Mass and CA. You can carry a cased and unloaded weapon with a loaded magazine in the case on your person or anywhere in your vehicle as long as you have a firearm owners id card which is not hard to get.

I don't think I like the idea of having to register to buy ammo any more than I like the idea of total information awareness and no-judge warrants. I'll take shall issue CCW, but I would like to see a better mental health enforcement. (sounds conflicted, doesn't it?)

cris wrote:For those who think carrying is a bad idea: It would only have took one other person present "carrying" to lessen the # of the fallen.

I understand there was a ccl on site. He said in essence that bodys were too tightly packed to use the gun. I think he was one of the three who contained whackboy.

If he shot a few people to get the job done, he would still have saved lives. Just sayin...

Sonofagun wrote:

cris wrote:For those who think carrying is a bad idea: It would only have took one other person present "carrying" to lessen the # of the fallen.

I understand there was a ccl on site. He said in essence that bodys were too tightly packed to use the gun. I think he was one of the three who contained whackboy.

If he shot a few people to get the job done, he would still have saved lives. Just sayin...

I don't know if you are being serious or not. What you propose may be true, but we get into the situation of "what if" and that is never a good thing. The man made a judgment call and did not want to be directly responsible for any more potential deaths or injuries and we need to respect that. Killers don't care who they hurt or kill, the rest of us have to. It puts us at a disadvantage, but it allows us to retain our humanity.

What you propose may be true,

Absolutely. Sacrafice is neccessary everywhere. I don't know what I'd do in the situation till it happened, but I'd do something. Right or wrong, taking stand means more than nothing. But I agree with your point also. Sucks to be human.

from what I have read, and what some witnesses said, there was no time for a gun to be helpful. He pulled the trigger 20 times rapidly in a row. That is what, maybe 10 seconds? 15? Is that enough for a guy with a gun nearby to unholster it, ready it and use it effectively? I don't think so. And neither did the people nearby that were armed - and from what I read there were 2 of them.

I think there are many instances where someone with a gun nearby could either keep the situation from getting worse or could stop it altogether. This wasn't one of them.

Someone on the news said if everyone there had pulled out a gun, no one would know who the nut is. Another good point, but I can't stand the idea that so many people are against carrying guns till someone else is pointing one at them.

Sonofagun wrote:Someone on the news said if everyone there had pulled out a gun, no one would know who the nut is. Another good point, but I can't stand the idea that so many people are against carrying guns till someone else is pointing one at them.

Agreed, just because the way this particular scene played out means that it is not an example of where having a gun would have saved the day - it also isn't an argument against a gun. My wife was in a fender bender and the air bag was not needed, did not deploy and all were well. That doesn't mean she should disable the air bag because it is useless in preventing injuries.

Sonofagun wrote:Someone on the news said if everyone there had pulled out a gun, no one would know who the nut is. Another good point, but I can't stand the idea that so many people are against carrying guns till someone else is pointing one at them.

That is just human nature Son. We complain bitterly about taxes but we surely enjoy the roads that they help pay for and the clean water and such. People hate the police when they get a ticket, but love them when they catch a predator.

We want it all and we want it exactly the way we think it should be, but reality is a great deal messier. Like you said, some people are against all guns except the ones that are used to protect them. It is naive and irritating.

AmirMortal wrote:

and no one should be able to buy stockpiles of ammunition used by the 22-year-old assailant.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/01 ... z1AbE31M3w

So less than a box of ammo is now a stockpile? Then I must have a fucking warehouse.

. . . . . . . . . I'm not even gonna say how much ammo I've got at the house, Homeland Security would probably show up at my door with a tank.

amrev360 wrote:Argh... just as dumb as that guy on Michael Moore's website calling the Glock 19 an assault weapon because of the 30rd mag.

Michael Moore's mouth should be a banned assault weapon.


Regards,

CarolinaHiker

eelj wrote:Kinda cute she has a bill ready to pull out of her ass to present to congress as early as tomorrow. The Dems need to cool their heels or they are going to loose big time in 2012. Oh well I suppose ammo and component prices will be going through the roof again. Please don't consider me heartless because none of it matters in light of the weekends events, just rambling.

I'm sure she has template gun ban Bills that she keeps on hand.

She's not known for her intelligence, especially on gun topics. She rode the sympathy train, on her husband's death, for the pity vote to get herself into office. This is the same woman who sponsored legislation to ban guns, including barrel shrouds, and had absolutely no clue what a barrel shroud was or how it was used. Her complete ignorance on that was outed by a reporter interviewing her on national TV.

Isn't that great we have "leaders" in office, ready to sponsor legislation impacting citizen's rights and liberties of content which they know nothing about.


Regards,


CarolinaHiker

Caliman73 wrote:

Sonofagun wrote:Someone on the news said if everyone there had pulled out a gun, no one would know who the nut is. Another good point, but I can't stand the idea that so many people are against carrying guns till someone else is pointing one at them.

That is just human nature Son. We complain bitterly about taxes but we surely enjoy the roads that they help pay for and the clean water and such. People hate the police when they get a ticket, but love them when they catch a predator.

We want it all and we want it exactly the way we think it should be, but reality is a great deal messier. Like you said, some people are against all guns except the ones that are used to protect them. It is naive and irritating.

Too bad no one pulled out one of these:

Thanks Glocklobster...

One armed CCL - Joe Zamudio was at the scene and talked with Ed Schultz. I've seen this clip on right wing and left wing blogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_p-PVwZ ... re=related

Ahhh my dear dear Democratic party … poised to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory ……… someone in the party leadership needs to step up and shut McCarthy down before she does too much damage.

Love&A.45 wrote:Ahhh my dear dear Democratic party … poised to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory ……… someone in the party leadership needs to step up and shut McCarthy down before she does too much damage.

No kidding.