The Liberal Gun Club Forum

Kudos to FN for using the word "revanchism". Nicely done.

AmirMortal wrote:

amrev360 wrote:

We don't need more gun laws.

I think Arizona is a little more lax than other states. I don't think you even need a permit to CC there. I think there needs to be some sort of screening process, even if it's an FBI background check. I honestly don't see why any responsible gun owner would take offense to this. I'm not for gun bans, but a little mental health screening (with a proper appeals process) seems reasonable.

For one thing, now, just as before the laws allowing anyone legally allowed to own a gun to carry said gun, those who aren't allowed will do so regardless. Gang members don't usually buy their guns through FFLs or get licenses from the state, they just carry guns. I somehow doubt that laws prohibiting this Criminally Insane Jackass from carrying that fun would have stopped this tragedy. Period.

NPR and others are now saying that he had an accomplice, an older guy, who presumably had a hand in 'guiding' this dipshit, and may or may not have been able to provide a weapon, even if the shooter wasn't allowed to own a gun. If someone really wants to literally kill, they will. Humans have been perfecting the process for many thousands of years before guns came along. If someone wants to carry a gun, they will. We should ensure that those responsible citizens who wish to carry for defense are not deliberately placed at a disadvantage to those criminals who simply will ignore the laws anyway, and in doing so criminalize our responsible citizenry. That is poor civil planning, and irrational behavior.

I go off to work and ...

Yes, my understanding is that Arizona like Vermont and Alaska allows carry without a CC license. There was a change in state law last year. Anyone who wants a handgun can get it regardless of the law.

Personally I'm much more comfortable with a judicial proceeding with lawyers and a judge who determine if an individual is mentally ill and therefore cannot purchase a firearm. Insanity is a legal term, mental health professionals have the DSM IVR that they use for diagnosis, but it is not an exact science. If an individual is in jeopardy of losing civil rights, a judicial proceeding is best because decisions can be appealed to higher courts.

Britain and other countries that severely restrict their residents from owning handguns are getting flooded with illegal handguns from Eastern Europe. The European Community has more pourous borders among member nations that allows the flow of legal and illegal items.

highdesert wrote: Yes, my understanding is that Arizona like Vermont and Alaska allows carry without a CC license. There was a change in state law last year. Anyone who wants a handgun can get it regardless of the law.

I think I get your meaning, but let's just clarify a bit more here for others who might take words too literally.
Anyone "who wants a handgun" in Arizona cannot get one regardless of the law. The recent change in the law only allowed a law abiding, approved purchaser and owner of a sidearm to carry it concealed in defensive carry without an additional CC permit...it's been like that for quite some time in both Alaska and Vermont. In my view, this is a closer adherance to our genuine Second Amendment rights.

Background checks are still executed on purchase...if a problem is flagged there, the purchase is not approved...for sidearm as well as long gun.

highdesert wrote: Personally I'm much more comfortable with a judicial proceeding with lawyers and a judge who determine if an individual is mentally ill and therefore cannot purchase a firearm.

Insanity is a legal term, mental health professionals have the DSM IVR that they use for diagnosis, but it is not an exact science. If an individual is in jeopardy of losing civil rights, a judicial proceeding is best because decisions can be appealed to higher courts.

Yes, agreed...although I would want to see close collaboration between all entites. I would not want to have activist judges with a grude against guns unjustly ending a citizen's Second Amendment rights...judges and lawyers are not psychological professionals. Same from the medical side...no personal agendas abuse without legal appeal.

Actually, there are things in place now to address this...just requires a certain level of progression through the system before it is flagged properly. Refer to my prior post from Joe Trippi. I have to agree, it is near impossible to have restrictive laws for each and every instance in hopes of avoiding a psychotic's actions as we just witnesed...to try is to destroy the free society we live in.

The murderer bears the ultimate responsibility and accountabiity.

Regards,

CarolinaHiker

Leucoandro wrote:

masonalannz wrote:What is interesting is that the Right now seem to be saying that just because they use gun related words and phrases in their slogans doesn't mean they actually mean any of it literally or expect that anyone would take it as such and act on it. With sex education, however, they jump up and down and scream that teaching kids about sex will lead to them having sex.

Does that count the Daily Kos putting a bullseye out on Representative Gifford in 2008?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25 ... 511/541568


My point is that it is not right no matter who does it.


Charlie

People are Daily Kos get banned for suggesting violence. People on the right wing side of things get applauded for suggesting violence. If you look at the last decade, the violence has come from the right hand side for the most part. The violent rhetoric, again, the right wing. Sure, liberals have used "targeted" and similar words to describe districts they want to win or candidates they want to replace. But then again, there isn't a bunch of liberals drumming up hatred, vitriol, and using the tactic of "Who will rid me of this meddlesome politician?"

FriqueNationale wrote:Time out for history.
Abraham Lincoln, the supposed tyrannical boogyman of the American right wing revisionists, lost his seat in Congress for his opposition to the Mexican War, an unjustifiable land grab.

Research a little about Ex Parte Milligan. Research a little about President Lincoln installing Military Governors. Little Research about the the way he suspended Habeas Corpus, or instituted Martial law throughout the country.

FriqueNationale wrote:The correct analogue today is Palin and Beck's emphasis of "American Exceptionalism", read: When we do it, it's not wrong.

I do not pay attention to Palin, and can count the times I have watched an entire half hour of Beck on one hand. Not totally sure, but I think "American Exceptionalism" might go along with the pride and "Made in America Mentality". The thought that Americans can come together and do great good and overcome any obsticle.

FriqueNationale wrote:FDR was not a militarist. The US Army was a 100,000 man force until the eve of the war. Roosevelt spent billions building a good part of the infrastructure this country has relied on for 70 years, saving millions from unemployment and hunger in the process, but he did not significantly increase the military until it was both impossible and unconscionable that America would remain neutral. When he moved, he created an army that comprised all of America, rich and poor, funded it properly, and when the war was done, the succeeding Democratic Truman administration demobbed the vast majority of it back home. We entered the Korean War a mere 5 years after the zenith of this supposed progressive militarist dictatorship, completely unprepared for the onslaught of so inferior an enemy as North Korea. No National Security state was formed on FDR's watch.

I'm just saying.

I might be wrong, but I believe that FDR pushed for factories to start producing war goods for support of European allies long before we entered the war. As far as I can remember all history books I have read have said that FDR was hawkish and felt the need to help our European allies. He pushed for several actions in attempts to get Germany to strike first, based off of his observations of the backlash against President W. Wilson and WWI.

FDR did many things that helped the people of America, but he also took steps that could have prolonged the depression.

According to two UCLA Economist FDR extended the Depression by 7 years.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FD ... -5409.aspx


Charlie

KVoimakas wrote:People are Daily Kos get banned for suggesting violence. People on the right wing side of things get applauded for suggesting violence. If you look at the last decade, the violence has come from the right hand side for the most part. The violent rhetoric, again, the right wing. Sure, liberals have used "targeted" and similar words to describe districts they want to win or candidates they want to replace. But then again, there isn't a bunch of liberals drumming up hatred, vitriol, and using the tactic of "Who will rid me of this meddlesome politician?"

Well, it appears that the Daily Kos pulled the article (Not important, people have screen shots of the article). The article was one published by the Daily Kos, not by any old poster. The Article listed several Blue Dog Democrats that did not vote the way the Daily Kos staff felt they should have. Because of this, the Daily Kos said that these Blue Dog Democrats have a bullseye on them.


As to the rest of your post, it appears that it is OK when one group does it because they might do it to a lesser extent. I still maintain that it is wrong no matter who does it.


Charlie

Leucoandro wrote:

KVoimakas wrote:People are Daily Kos get banned for suggesting violence. People on the right wing side of things get applauded for suggesting violence. If you look at the last decade, the violence has come from the right hand side for the most part. The violent rhetoric, again, the right wing. Sure, liberals have used "targeted" and similar words to describe districts they want to win or candidates they want to replace. But then again, there isn't a bunch of liberals drumming up hatred, vitriol, and using the tactic of "Who will rid me of this meddlesome politician?"

Well, it appears that the Daily Kos pulled the article (Not important, people have screen shots of the article). The article was one published by the Daily Kos, not by any old poster. The Article listed several Blue Dog Democrats that did not vote the way the Daily Kos staff felt they should have. Because of this, the Daily Kos said that these Blue Dog Democrats have a bullseye on them.


As to the rest of your post, it appears that it is OK when one group does it because they might do it to a lesser extent. I still maintain that it is wrong no matter who does it.


Charlie

I never said it was ok to use violent rhetoric. There's a difference between "targeting" as used to determine who needs to win or what district to focus on while also promoting non-violence and using targeting while spouting off Second Amendment remedies and asking for the assassination of people (see Julian Assange.)

Did you mean this, by the way, when it comes to DKos?http://mediamatters.org/research/201101110003

Right-wing media have promoted a doctored image that supposedly shows that Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas used the image of a bull's eye in connection with Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ). In fact, the original Daily Kos post did not contain an image of a bull's eye.

Leucoandro wrote: ....Not totally sure, but I think "American Exceptionalism" might go along with the pride and "Made in America Mentality". The thought that Americans can come together and do great good and overcome any obstacle.

Charlie

That is exactly what most see in American exceptionism...certainly I do. Not just support for American industry, but pride in country and our founding principles...and yes, that the American people are capable of dong great good and overcoming any obstacles.

An American president on some apology tour for that was a pitiful display.


Regards,

CarolinaHiker

CarolinaHiker wrote:

Leucoandro wrote: ....Not totally sure, but I think "American Exceptionalism" might go along with the pride and "Made in America Mentality". The thought that Americans can come together and do great good and overcome any obstacle.

Charlie

That is exactly what most see in American exceptionism...certainly I do. Not just support for American industry, but pride in country and our founding principles...and yes, that the American people are capable of dong great good and overcoming any obstacles.

An American president on some apology tour for that was a pitiful display.


Regards,

CarolinaHiker

I thought it was kinda refreshing to see an American President actually acknowledge parts of our history that wasn't just AMERICAN IS TEH MOST AWESOMEST EVAR!

Don't mix exceptionalism with nationalism, because it seams that's what we have today. How can we be proud of something "Made in USA" when there's no such thing anymore? The world is not stupid. The world see USA for it's positive and negative traits and acts accordingly. Now, if your attitude is that "I believe in American Exceptionalism and don't give shit what anybody else thinks!"... it makes us look pathetic just like British Empire towards it's end when they were depicting it as toothless lion.

It makes us look like bullies while everybody knows that are over our heads in debt to China and some others. Bullies like that do not dominate schoolyard for too long.

KVoimakas wrote:Did you mean this, by the way, when it comes to DKos?http://mediamatters.org/research/201101110003

Right-wing media have promoted a doctored image that supposedly shows that Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas used the image of a bull's eye in connection with Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ). In fact, the original Daily Kos post did not contain an image of a bull's eye.

That one is slightly different from the one on the Kos page I linked (which Kos took down). If you cut out the bullseye, the arrows and the picture, you would know what the Daily Kos page looked like. The list of names was the same, The Article said "this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district"

They listed Giffords, Gabrielle AZ-8 as one of the political leaders with a bulls eye on them.


Charlie

Gosh, this conversation sure has gone askew.

We started off discussing whether or not the violent rhetoric and imagery being used in politics today may have influenced the shooter's behavior (a discussion the entire country is and should be having), but got side tracked arguing whether the shooter is "left" or "right."

The truth is, the boy is crazy, and as we learn more about him, we will likely learn that his ideas are a patchwork of extreme and paranoid views. Arguing whether he was "left" or "right" (ever notice that the extreme left and the extreme right look a lot alike?) misses the point. The point is whether he was influenced by some of the violent rhetoric.

Another poster was kind enough to point out that violent rhetoric is inappropriate regardless of where it comes from. I couldn't agree more. Yet another provided a list of inappropriate comments made by President Obama and others.

I don't want to get into a tit for tat here, but I have to point something out. Using targets or gun imagery is in bad taste in any case but what Sarah Palin did was far beyond any of those other examples. She posted a list of 20 names, used gun site images in connection with those names, and encouraged people to "reload." People warned her that she had crossed a line. She didn't care. People said the post was dangerous and that an unstable person might be influenced to do something terrible. She refused to take it down. Now, someone on that list has been shot.

It is absolutely correct to ask questions about this and yes, Sara Palin may share some blame in this. But I want to take a wider view. All of this has taken place against a backdrop of increasingly revolutionary rhetoric coming from the right, against a backdrop of people bringing guns to political rallies, against a backdrop of people at Tea Parties carrying signs that say "The tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants," against a backdrop of calls for "2nd amendment remedies," against a backdrop of conspiracy theories; birthers, death panels, etc. Yes, there are examples on the left but there is a pattern and a movement building on the right that is both revolutionary and violent in its tone and imagery, and it is not just coming from the street, it is coming from the mouths of members of congress and it is coming, in a constant 24 hour drumbeat from the Fox News Channel.

I do not care whether or not this boy read The Communist Manifesto. There is only one conversation that needs to happen and that is a conversation about the growing hostility on the right and whether or not it is going to result in more violence. We can temporarily derail that conversation with a pointless debate about Nazis, but we can not ignore it.

Greengunner,

Very good post.


Charlie

And to reinforce you point, here's a video:

Using aggressive language to get ones point across has always been kind of normal, I don't see a problem, hit a home run, spike the ball, slam dunk, going off half cocked, lock and load and blitz are part of our lexicon, saying it can sway the populations thoughts and intentions is like blaming the Beatles for the manson murders, fruit cakes are a fact of life.

Greengunner wrote: ....but got side tracked arguing whether the shooter is "left" or "right."

The truth is, the boy is crazy, and as we learn more about him, we will likely learn that his ideas are a patchwork of extreme and paranoid views. Arguing whether he was "left" or "right" (ever notice that the extreme left and the extreme right look a lot alike?) misses the point.

<snipped>

Using targets or gun imagery is in bad taste in any case but what Sarah Palin did was far beyond any of those other examples. She posted a list of 20 names, used gun site images in connection with those names, and encouraged people to "reload."

Yes, there are examples on the left but there is a pattern and a movement building on the right that is both revolutionary and violent in its tone and imagery, and it is not just coming from the street, it is coming from the mouths of members of congress and it is coming, in a constant 24 hour drumbeat from the Fox News Channel.

I do not care whether or not this boy read The Communist Manifesto. There is only one conversation that needs to happen and that is a conversation about the growing hostility on the right....

As much as I agreed with your first statement, in the first paragraph, you then proceeded to contradict yourself by engaging the same thing your first statements seemed to advise against.


Sarah Palin : "...don't retreat...reload."
Barack Obama : "They bring a knife to the fight...we bring a gun ! "
Barack Obama : “Punish your enemies.”

Daily Kos (blogged post) : "My Congresswoman voted against Nancy Pelosi and is now DEAD to me." (coincidentally, the later victim / also scrubed from the Kos website)


Sorry...there is no difference. For years, BOTH sides of the political spectrum have used "battleground" and "fight" references and metaphors in campaign rhetoric. For that matter, WE as private citizens have done the same in sporting activiteis and personal discussions. The only difference now is ONE side aggressivley trying to tag the actions of an unhinged mind murderer to the other for selfish political gain..in contradiction that the initial factual evidence from the deranged murderer's friends, reading influences, and widly incoherent posts make no connection to.

The political "whoring" by whomever to use the tragedy of multiple murders for selfish political advantage is sickening.


Is this what you mean by civil obedience and discourse from the Left ? You'll pardon me for saying....I don't see it.

1. NINA TOTENBERG WISHED JESSIE HELMS AND HIS GRANDCHILDREN GET AIDS.---July 8, 1995

2. JULIANNE MALVEAUX WISHED THAT CLARENCE THOMAS WOULD EAT TOO MANY EGGS AND BUTTER AND DIE OF HEART DISEASE.--- November 4, 1994

3. ALEC BALDWIN WANTED A NATIONAL TV STUDIO AUDIENCE TO DRAG HENRY HYDE AND HIS FAMILY INTO THE STREETS AND STONE THEM TO DEATH.---Dec 15, 1998

4. CRAIG KILBORN HOLDS UP A PICTURE OF GEORGE BUSH(BUSH‘S ACCEPTANCE SPEECH FOR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT) ON NATIONAL TELEVISION WITH THE CAPTION “SNIPER WANTED”.---August 4, 2000

5. http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death ... sts-i.html

6. SPIKE LEE SAID THAT CHARLTON HESTON SHOULD BE SHOT WITH A .44 BULLDOG PISTOL.---June 5, 1999

7. WANDA SYKES HOPES THAT RUSS LIMBAUGH‘S KIDNEYS FAIL.---May 10, 2009

8. http://www.anthonysfilmreview.com/Film/ ... sident.htm
(what would the Left be screaming today if the sitting President, Obama, were the focal point of a film like this?)

9. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/msnbc-h ... -violence/

10. Rush Limbaugh is beginning to look more and more like Mr. Big, and at some point somebody’s going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he’s going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come. Not yet, but we’ll be there to watch.” -- Chris Matthews on MSNBC’s Morning Meeting, Oct. 13, 2009.

11. “So, Michele, slit your wrist! Go ahead! I mean, you know, why not? I mean, if you want to -- or, you know, do us all a better thing. Move that knife up about two feet. I mean, start right at the collarbone.” -- Montel Williams talking about Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) on Air America’s Montel Across America, Sept. 2, 2009.

12. “I’m waiting for the day when I pick it up, pick up a newspaper or click on the Internet and find out he’s choked to death on his own throat fat or a great big wad of saliva or something, you know, whatever. Go away, Rush, you make me sick!” -- Radio host Mike Malloy on the Jan. 4, 2010 Mike Malloy Show.

13. “I’m just saying if he [Dick Cheney] did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact.” -- Bill Maher on his HBO show Real Time, Mar. 2, 2007,



A question if I might. So far, here are a few facts from the murderer's friends and his professed reading list :

* Reading List :
- Mein Kampf
- The Communist Manifesto
- Animal Farm
- Brave New World
- We the Living
- The Republic (Plato)
- Meno (Plato)

* Openly campaigned against George W. Bush

* High school friends described him as "really liberal" in his
political views (delusions)


However, had his reading list and profile been this :

- Treason - Ann Coulter
- An Inconvenient Book - Glenn Beck
- the Sarah Palin biography
- the Ronald Reagan biography
- The Republic (Plato)
- Meno (Plato)

* Openly campaigned against John Kerry

* High school friends described him as "really right-wing" in his
political views (delusions)

Would the Left so readily be dismissing this as non-relevant? I'm thinking - NO.

Considering the head-spinning urgency that every key conservative figure was blamed, in absence of any real evidence (or amazingly, even before the murderer was known) I'm pretty confident the Left would suddenly "care" about his library and been all over that "proof" like white on rice and would have been deemed fully relevant.
Similar to some on the Right seeing some relevance there, or considering the Congresswoman being somewhat centrist, speculating she pissed him off for not being Liberal enough.

As my thoughts were in an earlier post. If we decide that the political rhetoric has amped up to heights that causes us concern on how it might affect an already unbalanced mind, it must be known that it is wrong no matter who is doing it and BOTH sides have been guilty.

I don't imagine it will be easy for either side to admit that.


But again, I caution before seeing any more knee-jerking public and politicians calling for more restriting laws on American citizens...in my view a wrong and inneffective approach...refer back to my re-post her of an earlier posting :


The Sometimes Tragic Price of Living in a Free Society :

http://joetrippi.com/

Since the tragic events in Arizona unfolded on Saturday the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, the six victims who were killed and the 14 others who were wounded has quickly become politicized. My own view is that it’s a mistake to politicize this attack.

One of the problems of a free society is that one crazy person can do something like this.

If we took all the steps necessary to prevent this attack we would either not be able to meet with our elected officials or a lot of people we only think are crazy would be in jail — locked up.

All this talk of “watching our language” in public debate runs counter to freedom of speech and ignores the fact that in a country of 300 million people there was only 1 person who didn’t grasp that speech is speech — that you don’t use a gun in a debate.

We cannot create a free society in which there is no chance of a tragedy like this.



Regards,

CarolinaHiker

CarolinaHiker wrote: Is this what you mean by civil obedience and discourse from the Left ? You'll pardon me for saying....I don't see it.

Regards,

CarolinaHiker

Name me one liberal Democrat who has ever shot a politician of national prominance or who has ever committed an act of terrorism in the US comparable to someone like Tim McVeigh. (Don't say Bill Ayers. He never killed anybody).

John Wilkes Booth was a Confederate fanatic, Sirhan Sirhan was a Palestinian Christian, Lee Harvey Oswald was just a freak (of course, the jury is still out in many minds on whether or not he did it), John Hinkley was another freak, the 911 hijackers were Muslim fundamentalists, Arthur Bremmer admitted he shot George Wallace simply to "gain notoriety"...

And let's not forget the guy who shot up a Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, TN, killing a couple people. He left a note declaring openly that he was a fan of FOX "News" and that he wanted to "kill liberals."

Also, I don't buy the bullshit about Loughner being a "liberal" who campaigned against GWB. That's based on some chick's tweet that FOX "News" ran with to cover their asses.

P.S. "We The Living" was the Ayn Rand book on his list.

Van wrote:

CarolinaHiker wrote: Is this what you mean by civil obedience and discourse from the Left ? You'll pardon me for saying....I don't see it.

Regards,

CarolinaHiker

....I don't buy the bullshit about Loughton being a "liberal" who campaigned against GWB.

Of course you don't...


Awful quick there to defend the Weathermen Underground, aren't you?


PS: Thanks for the book title...I edited my post.


CarolinaHiker

You forgot the conservative from Austin who kamikazi'd his plane into the IRS.

CarolinaHiker wrote:

Van wrote:

CarolinaHiker wrote: Is this what you mean by civil obedience and discourse from the Left ? You'll pardon me for saying....I don't see it.

Regards,

CarolinaHiker

....I don't buy the bullshit about Loughton being a "liberal" who campaigned against GWB.

Of course you don't...


Awful quick there to defend the Weathermen Underground, aren't you?


PS: Thanks for the book title...I edited my post.


CarolinaHiker

No answer. Figures.


P.S. I'm not "defending" the Weather Underground. I'm just stating a fact.

eelj wrote:Using aggressive language to get ones point across has always been kind of normal, I don't see a problem, hit a home run, spike the ball, slam dunk, going off half cocked, lock and load and blitz are part of our lexicon, saying it can sway the populations thoughts and intentions is like blaming the Beatles for the manson murders, fruit cakes are a fact of life.

Yes sir...I'm of that same opinion.


Regards,

CarolinaHiker

amrev360 wrote:You forgot the conservative from Austin who kamikazi'd his plane into the IRS.

Yep. Forgot about that one. One federal employee was killed, if I remember correctly.

CarolinaHiker wrote:Of course you don't...

Because it hasn't been substantiated.

A tweet aired on Fox "News" doesn't count. I'll believe it if federal prosecutors in this case release facts to support the assertion.

List of incidents over JUST the last two years. I went looking for a comparable list from the other side of the spectrum, and yes, it was there. Maybe one shooting, most incidents were from the 60's and 70's. Interestingly, they had some of the same incidents but classified the bad actors as liberal instead of rightwingnut. Seems pretty clear that both sides use violent, inflammatory rhetoric. Also seems clear that the right wing shoots more people than lefties do. Especially recently. 14 dead in the below list, mostly cops. For what its worth, I don't think this is a right winger, just a deranged individual.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert ... r-isolated


Just in the past two and a half years, here's the record of "isolated incidents" amassed so far:

-- July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how "liberals" are "destroying America," walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

-- October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

-- December 2008: A pair of "Patriot" movement radicals -- the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted "to attack the political infrastructure" -- threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

-- December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear "dirty bomb" in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

-- January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

-- February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

-- April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

-- April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama's purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

-- May 2009: A "sovereign citizen" named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

-- June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

-- February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one "domestic terrorism" too.)

-- March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

-- March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

-- May 2010: A "sovereign citizen" from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

-- May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

-- May 2010: Two "sovereign citizens" named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

-- July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

-- September 2010: A Concord, N.C., man is arrested and charged with plotting to blow up a North Carolina abortion clinic. The man, 26-year--old Justin Carl Moose, referred to himself as the "Christian counterpart to (Osama) bin Laden” in a taped undercover meeting with a federal informant.

well armed liberal wrote:List of incidents over JUST the last two years. I went looking for a comparable list from the other side of the spectrum, and yes, it was there. Maybe one shooting, most incidents were from the 60's and 70's.
Seems pretty clear that both sides use violent, inflammatory rhetoric.

For what its worth, I don't think this is a right winger, just a deranged individual.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert ... r-isolated

Just in the past two and a half years, here's the record of "isolated incidents" amassed so far:

-- July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how "liberals" are "destroying America," walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

-- October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

-- December 2008: A pair of "Patriot" movement radicals -- the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted "to attack the political infrastructure" -- threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

-- December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear "dirty bomb" in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

-- January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

-- February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

-- April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

-- April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama's purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

-- May 2009: A "sovereign citizen" named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

-- June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

-- February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one "domestic terrorism" too.)

-- March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

-- March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

-- May 2010: A "sovereign citizen" from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

-- May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

-- May 2010: Two "sovereign citizens" named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

-- July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

-- September 2010: A Concord, N.C., man is arrested and charged with plotting to blow up a North Carolina abortion clinic. The man, 26-year--old Justin Carl Moose, referred to himself as the "Christian counterpart to (Osama) bin Laden” in a taped undercover meeting with a federal informant.

Yes...the deranged Tuscon murderer was off on his own brand of crazy...

In your post, you mentioned you also located examples from the Left, but didn't notice you posted any. In kind, you may appreciate the assistance in filling out your list. These are just the few located with about 10 minutes of looking...could be more?
There may indeed be additional left-wing examples from the 60s and 70s, you should post them...these are from more recent time periods...around 2004-ish. :.

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In Madison, Wis., someone burned an 8-foot-by-8-foot Nazi swastika on a homeowner's lawn, which had been decorated with Bush-Cheney signs. The vandals used grass killer to spray the hate symbol (it's OK, Bush-hating trumps environmentalism). Several other homes nearby were vandalized.


In Orlando, Fla., Democrats stormed the local Bush/Cheney headquarters, and the ensuing melee resulted in physical injuries to at least two Republican campaign workers. The liberal protesters justified their actions -- including ramming the head of one of the workers into an office door -- by blaming President Bush's "negative campaign."
** So, the 30-second ads made them do it. It's always someone else's fault.


In Knoxville, Tenn., someone shot into the Bush/Cheney headquarters. Shots were also fired into Bush/Cheney offices in Huntington, W. Va., and Florida. The GOP office in Gallatin County, Mont., was vandalized twice in less than a week. Republican offices in the Seattle area, Spokane, Wash., Canton, Ohio, Fairbanks, Alaska, and Edwardsville, Ill., have also been burglarized and/or vandalized.


On an Alaska-bound flight, a drunken Kerry supporter went ballistic after harassing a female Bush supporter and refusing to calm down at the request of flight attendants.


In Gainesville, Fla., police arrested a Democrat accused of punching the chairman of the Alachua County Republican Executive Committee in the face at the town Republican headquarters. The accused, David McCally, also punched a life-sized, cardboard cutout of President George Bush. McCally is a community college instructor whose specialty is social and behavioral sciences.
According to the GOP chairman, Travis Horn, McCally hurled obscenities at him before the assault. "He proceeded to say how he had a Ph.D., and he was smarter than me. I'm a stupid Republican." And that, no doubt, is the superior attitude held by media reporters and anti-hate crime advocates and peace preachers and civility pleaders who refuse to acknowledge the totally unhinged tactics of Democrats Gone Wild.

Liberals promise to do "whatever it takes" -- "by any means necessary" -- to win this election.


September 2, 2004: Huntington, West Virginia:
Republican supporters in Huntington were watching their candidate accept the party's nomination when a gunshot rang out right in the middle of George W. Bush's speech. "We heard a small snap, and felt glass come sliding by us. We looked up and saw a hole in our window and realized somebody was shooting at us", said Paula Stewart. Witnesses tell police that someone fired a shot at the Republican Headquarters office at 1402 4th Avenue around 10:30pm Thursday night.


Friday, October 22, 2004
LAKE HAVASU CITY, Ariz.
A little after 10 am Thursday morning police were called to the Republican Party headquarters in Lake Havasu in response to a bomb threat phoned. Volunteer coordinator Patti Silvestri took the call from a person she described as a male voice of indeterminate age. “I answered ‘good-morning Republican Headquarters this is Patti may I help you,’ and he said I just want you to know that place will be blown-up,” said Silvestri.
According to District 3 party chairman Noreen Thomas the threat will not deter her or her staff and volunteers from doing their work.
“I am not going to be intimidated by a terrorist,” said Thomas. “Nor am I going to be intimidated by a John Kerry supporter.”



There are quite a number more left-wing examples to be referenced in Europe...these few were just US located.


Regards,

CarolinaHiker