Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

So many executive orders, so much twitter. What to do? Well, discuss it here for one...

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Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#1 Post by TrueTexan » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:35 pm

President Trump's administration wants to reform federal hiring. It complains of burdensome hiring rules and of losing candidates because filling jobs takes too long. The system "frustrates hiring managers," it said in its 2021 budget proposal.

The Trump administration's proposed FY 2021 budget, which it sent to Congress Monday, calls for "transforming" federal workforce hiring. It said federal rules are making it difficult to fill high-demand jobs, especially in technology. It called the hiring and dismissal rules "lengthy and byzantine" and said "stellar performance is inadequately recognized and poor performance insufficiently addressed."

In short, the Trump administration wants hiring and workforce management rules to be more like the private sector: agile, flexible and capable of responding to government needs.

The Trump administration doesn't blame these rules for any government operational problems. While it cites a workforce that's older than the private sector, it doesn't see that as a negative. But it does express frustration in its ability to hire college graduates with needed skills. It also points out that a large number of federal employees -- relative to the private sector -- have advanced degrees, which it suggests might be a consequence of unnecessary job requirements.

"Over-reliance on degrees can be a barrier to entry" to federal jobs, the White House argued. Indeed, some high-profile private sector firms, such as Google and Apple, are moving away from strict college degree requirements.

The federal workforce is more educated than the private sector. One-third of federal workers have a master's degree or above compared to about 15% at large firms in the private sector, according to the White House.

The federal workforce is also older than the private sector workforce. The average age of federal workers is 46, versus 42 for all others. The age gap is most acute for the youngest workers, with only 7.3% of the federal workforce younger than age 30 compared to 23% of private sector workers.

Age is one thing the Trump administration isn't complaining about. It believes older workers are in need because the workforce is aging throughout the economy. Working past retirement "could be decisive in allowing the U.S. to thrive despite this demographic challenge," it argued. But it also believes that restrictions on federal internships are hurting government IT hiring.

Federal workforce has always been older

The federal workforce has always skewed older, said Jeri Buchholz, who retired as NASA's chief human capital officer and now works as an independent HR strategist.

Buchholz cites federal data from 2000, which shows the average age of federal workers was 46 -- unchanged from today. One reason for the public versus private sector age difference has to do with the expertise being sought, Buchholz notes. "Many jobs in the federal government require a master's degree or higher, such as attorneys and economists," she said.

"Perhaps the federal government should simply acknowledge that it hires well-educated, experienced professionals and start refocusing human capital strategies on the unique requirements of mid-career talent," Buchholz said.

The government employs nearly 2.1 million civilian workers, excluding postal workers. The military employs 1.4 million, and the postal service employs 580,000.

The federal hiring processes cause problems, especially in high-demand technical occupations, said Roger Baker, a former assistant secretary for information and technology and CIO at the Department of Veterans Affairs, who now works as an independent consultant.

Many federal agencies view getting to an average 90-day hiring process as their "stretch goal," he said, or a goal that exceeds current capabilities.

"Most young IT professionals are hired in much shorter time frames than that, meaning they are gone before the government ever makes an offer," Baker said.

Hiring process is broken

Donald Kettl, a professor at the University of Texas Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs, said the government "is having great trouble recruiting the new generation of workers -- the hiring process is badly broken."

"Many younger workers face large debt burdens, other opportunities, and the need to find good, challenging positions where they can have an impact," Kettl said. "The difficulty of navigating the federal hiring process is nudging many of them to other jobs."

The changing nature of work is creating demands for employees who can work in teams and communicate through social media, according to Kettl. The government also needs people with new skills in big data, data analytics, social media, cybersecurity, among others, he said.

"Put these two threads together: effective and nimble teams full of individuals with cutting-edge skills. That needs to be the cornerstone of the government's workforce of the future," Kettl said.
https://searchhrsoftware.techtarget.co ... hite-House

Make it easier to hire loyal Trumpers without the need for required education.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#2 Post by K9s » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:24 pm

That's what I was thinking. No qualifications? No problem.

Of course, they do that now, anyway. Now they just want to make it legal?
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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#3 Post by CDFingers » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:19 am

Yeah. We want folks so uneducated that we can manipulate them into shunting money from their departments into trump accounts...

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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#4 Post by K9s » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:41 pm

According to each officeholder’s official biography, the educational backgrounds of state executives are as follows:

• 185 officeholders have a bachelor’s degree (B.A., B.S., etc.)
• 56 officeholders have a master’s degree (M.A., M.S., M.B.A., etc.)
• 95 officeholders have a J.D.
• 7 officeholders have a Ph.D.
• 2 officeholders have an M.D.
• 7 officeholders have no higher education degree

The seven officeholders without a higher education degree in their official biography are Gov. Mike Parson (R-Mo.), Gov. Gary Herbert (R-Utah), Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan (R-Ga.), Lt. Gov. Billy Nungesser (R-La.), Lt. Gov. Mike Kehoe (R-Mo.), Lt. Gov. Larry Rhoden (R-S.D.), Sec. of State Connie Lawson (R-Ind.)
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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#5 Post by TrueTexan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:20 pm

K9s wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:41 pm
According to each officeholder’s official biography, the educational backgrounds of state executives are as follows:

• 185 officeholders have a bachelor’s degree (B.A., B.S., etc.)
• 56 officeholders have a master’s degree (M.A., M.S., M.B.A., etc.)
• 95 officeholders have a J.D.
• 7 officeholders have a Ph.D.
• 2 officeholders have an M.D.
• 7 officeholders have no higher education degree

The seven officeholders without a higher education degree in their official biography are Gov. Mike Parson (R-Mo.), Gov. Gary Herbert (R-Utah), Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan (R-Ga.), Lt. Gov. Billy Nungesser (R-La.), Lt. Gov. Mike Kehoe (R-Mo.), Lt. Gov. Larry Rhoden (R-S.D.), Sec. of State Connie Lawson (R-Ind.)
But, they are Reptilians they don't need no higher learnin'. As great uncle of mine said one time to my dad. My boys don't need any more learnin' than to read the bible and figure out how much money they are going to get at the cotton gin for a bale of cotton. Lucky for me, my dad beloved in education.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#6 Post by 7N6Wolf » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:12 pm

Perhaps they should abolish tuition fees so it is easier for more people to get degrees. Granted, I am not holding my breath on that.


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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#7 Post by K9s » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:58 am

7N6Wolf wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:12 pm
Perhaps they should abolish tuition fees so it is easier for more people to get degrees. Granted, I am not holding my breath on that.


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The billions diverted to "The Wall" and the subsidies for certain companies could fund a lot of public schools and community colleges. Just a thought....
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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#8 Post by TrueTexan » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:45 am

K9s wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:58 am
7N6Wolf wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:12 pm
Perhaps they should abolish tuition fees so it is easier for more people to get degrees. Granted, I am not holding my breath on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The billions diverted to "The Wall" and the subsidies for certain companies could fund a lot of public schools and community colleges. Just a thought....
That thought is just Socialist/Communist thinking and that is not allowed by the Trumpenfuhrer decree. You might be sent to a Trump reeducation camp. :sarcasm:
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#9 Post by K9s » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:15 pm

TrueTexan wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:45 am
K9s wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:58 am
7N6Wolf wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:12 pm
Perhaps they should abolish tuition fees so it is easier for more people to get degrees. Granted, I am not holding my breath on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The billions diverted to "The Wall" and the subsidies for certain companies could fund a lot of public schools and community colleges. Just a thought....
That thought is just Socialist/Communist thinking and that is not allowed by the Trumpenfuhrer decree. You might be sent to a Trump reeducation camp. :sarcasm:
Once they revoke citizenship to dissidents, it might get worse than that.
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#10 Post by geno » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:32 pm

K9s wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:15 pm
TrueTexan wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:45 am
K9s wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:58 am
7N6Wolf wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:12 pm
Perhaps they should abolish tuition fees so it is easier for more people to get degrees. Granted, I am not holding my breath on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The billions diverted to "The Wall" and the subsidies for certain companies could fund a lot of public schools and community colleges. Just a thought....
That thought is just Socialist/Communist thinking and pthat is not allowed by the Trumpenfuhrer decree. You might be sent to a Trump reeducation camp. :sarcasm:
Once they revoke citizenship to dissidents, it might get worse than that.
Although I've never been there, from what I've read I easily qualify for dual citizenship from Italy, perhaps
now is the time.
"its a goddamn impossible way of life"

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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#11 Post by K9s » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:53 pm

geno wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:32 pm
K9s wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:15 pm
TrueTexan wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:45 am
K9s wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:58 am


The billions diverted to "The Wall" and the subsidies for certain companies could fund a lot of public schools and community colleges. Just a thought....
That thought is just Socialist/Communist thinking and pthat is not allowed by the Trumpenfuhrer decree. You might be sent to a Trump reeducation camp. :sarcasm:
Once they revoke citizenship to dissidents, it might get worse than that.
Although I've never been there, from what I've read I easily qualify for dual citizenship from Italy, perhaps
now is the time.
Look at the situation in Italy before jumping into it. If there is no downside to it, why not?
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#12 Post by wooglin » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:36 pm

Here's a thought. Pay a competitive wage.

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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#13 Post by K9s » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:40 pm

wooglin wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:36 pm
Here's a thought. Pay a competitive wage.
And good benefits.

Of course, pay and benefits don't matter if the political appointees make life hell.
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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#14 Post by JohnNewell » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:26 am

K9s wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:53 pm
geno wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:32 pm
K9s wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:15 pm
TrueTexan wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:45 am


That thought is just Socialist/Communist thinking and pthat is not allowed by the Trumpenfuhrer decree. You might be sent to a Trump reeducation camp. :sarcasm:
Once they revoke citizenship to dissidents, it might get worse than that.
Although I've never been there, from what I've read I easily qualify for dual citizenship from Italy, perhaps
now is the time.
Look at the situation in Italy before jumping into it. If there is no downside to it, why not?

Double taxation? I dunno, but I know that the Italian tax authorities were buying some heavy military equipment not long ago. They take tax collecting seriously! :lol:

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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#15 Post by JohnNewell » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:27 am

Educated people tend to be liberal. So I think that we all see where this Cult of Personality thing is going.

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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#16 Post by K9s » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:32 am

JohnNewell wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:27 am
Educated people tend to be liberal. So I think that we all see where this Cult of Personality thing is going.
And why some of us saw this decades-long war on public education for what it is. Sucks to be right sometimes.
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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#17 Post by Wino » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:05 am

"An education is that which allows one to progress without intelligence. Intelligence is that which allows one to progress without an education."

A trite saying and I can't recall who said it and not sure if that was exactly as said, but is the essence. I fall into the second part. So may be they are on to something here. Considering the higher education of the people surrounding the turd and their abysmal performance in this administration, I'm not truly impressed with their quality of service. My older brother WAS a "rocket scientist" - during his stint at Martin Missile with approximately 250-300 engineers under his charge, he commented to me one time that Texas A&M produced some of the dumbest engineers he had ever seen (no he was not a tea sipper). He pointed out that an education was a discipline that gave one the basic tools to find, achieve and or obtain the answers you seek, but did not equate to intelligence. My life and business past bears this truth - I worked most of my life in technical industries and dealt frequently with engineers across the spectrum of formal or highly educated. While most were genuine, some, while looking at framed diplomas on their office wall, I wondered WTF.

If Washington drops it's education requirements, then when we call them dumb fucks, we're on target. They can't do any worse than what the educated pricks have done.

If it appears I have a chip on my shoulder regarding education, so be it. It's a subject akin to the "single parent" home being bad to grow up within, which I did from age 8 when Dad passed at 44 - Mom never remarried, saying no one could ever replace her Charlie. We had a wonderful home and life.

End of rant.
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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#18 Post by Wino » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:29 am

Seems like a good place for this:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/edu ... 746906002/

Another Trump Uni.
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Re: Federal workforce too reliant on degrees, says White House

#19 Post by K9s » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:28 pm

Wino wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:29 am
Seems like a good place for this:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/edu ... 746906002/

Another Trump Uni.
No surprise there. Fake university tied to a Visa mill. I wonder how much DeVos was bribed to accredit a university with no classes, campus, faculty, or web site?
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

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