The Liberal Gun Club Forum

I am all for SRT and SWAT teams being sufficiently armed, but I agree with the assertion that this is too much for cops to be using in built up urban areas. I firmly believe that the militarization of law enforcement is a dangerous and detrimental direction to proceed.

AmirMortal wrote: I firmly believe that the militarization of law enforcement is a dangerous and detrimental direction to proceed.

Militarization doesn't just apply to weapons. My local county sheriff department changed over to all-camo uniforms a couple years ago, which I think was a terrible idea--they just don't LOOK like they're part of the community any more. Ditto the jack boots worn by the Massachusetts state troopers--what's THAT all about???

That said, state cops especially patrolling remote areas seem like they could make a legitimate claim for needing semi-auto carbines and the like.

I read that story as "We're a bunch of blowhard wannabees trying to justify some new and pointless toys."

Might have to shoot the length of an airfield??? Aren't airports federal jurisdiction? I doubt if there was a hijacking/ hostage crisis at Orlando airport they'd be calling on these local yokels to solve it. They might get to be on scene long enough for the FBI and US Marshal's to show up.

I, too, am concerned that every time I turn around there's another cop wearing BDU style swat gear at a local festival. Are these the same guys spewing all the hate and misinformation on the other gun boards? 75% of those idiots claim to be LEO/ExLEO or Super Special Delta Rangers. Everybody and his fucken brother has to have bloused boots, body armor, cargo pockets and be a fucken super badass hero.

I personally want my cops to look and act like the RCMP.

I really have no problem with cops having semi auto rifles, though i'd prefer mini-14s.

Did you read the story, Amir?

These dipshits want Barrett .50's!

Yep, I saw that. I was responding to someones comment in this thread.

They dont need .50s.

I agree, it sounds like wannabee soldiers. The wimpy city council didn't even question it, probably because they aren't allocating funds only rubber stamping a grant application. I'd be concerned from a liability stand point if I sat on a city council, any cowboy cops with overkill weapons could put a huge dent in city finances.

It's all part of that militarized mentality we all read on the right wing gun boards written by the Rambo types. Every day they carry multiple guns, knives and other killing hardware because they might run into that nest of Bad Guys. They've never run into them but they are sure that they will so they carry all of it everyday.

Its a fine line. It used to be a ludicrous thought for cops to have anything other than a pistol, then, that little incident in L.A. happened.....

So, I think they should have access to anything they could ever remotely need.

On the other hand, I don't like how they are becoming detached from the community.

Isn't the .50 cal an anti-material weapon? What's wrong with the .308/ .30-06? I find it disturbing that the .50's are being requested for anti-personel rather than anti-material. It's one thing to be shooting an engine block, it's another thing to be shooting through buildings made of primarily sheet rock with that weapon. Even a .308 could have penetration way more than intended.

I really think it's a bad idea to have most police units in camo bdu's. It sends a terrible message that the govt. is at war with the public.

I have never heard of a police sniper making a shot much beyond 100-yards. Nowadays, we equip our police officers with service sidearms (i.e. the ubiquitous Glock XX or SigSauer PXXX) with effective ranges of 50 yards. We have training academies that spend more time yelling at recruits about unshined shoes than telling them what they need to know (and making sure that they're capable of said tasks). I'm no expert, but if push-ups and sit-ups made filling out forms easier, I'd like to believe that the typical desk sargent wouldn't look like that.

For sixty years, the average police officer carried some variant of the ubiquitious S&W K-Frame and a pair of speedloaders: a total of 18 rounds, 158 grain 38 Special+P. Every year, he got another 18 rounds. Detectives got a J-Frame: Model 36 or Model 60 and and two speedloaders for a total of 15 rounds: 38 Special semi-jacket or 'FBI' NyClad load. An old-timer (30+ years with the DC Police Dept) once told me that, back when he came onto the force, there were three things a new cop needed: his Colt Police Positive, some guts, and how to live within a 20-mile radius of the Capitol Dome.

After twenty successive years since the introduction of the semi-automatic pistol, we have seen some significant changes: the $600 Beretta 92 has been replaced with the $550 Glock XX which, in turn, has been replaced with the $500 S&W M&P (Thanks buy American provisions). We've taken to teaching them how to use their 50-yard at 25 yards, and offsetting that with the gun that sends out about a dozen or so lead balls in a generalized direction, with a range of about 40 or so yards.

The recruiters (the ones in the sharp uniforms and shiny displays at all those job fairs) tell job seekers that they too can be a police officer (with three years of college or four years in the military). Assuming that four-year veteran of our armed services makes it past the psychological exam (or that college grad doesn't over-score on the aptitude test), they'll have their slot to start the academy (just as soon as the municipality can afford to pay for it).

This is in stark contrast, our Federal, state, and local governments have been adding terms to the American lexicon: Homeland Security, Weapons of Mass Destruction, Man-Made Disaster , and Anti-Terrorism. For almost a decade, using those terms gave local governments carte blanche: Geiger counters for Natchez, NBC suits for Des Moines, and a shiny new Haz-Mat truck for Little Rock...Yes, I am quite serious. But we saved money by cutting the security budgets of New York and Los Angeles.

Police Departments wanting newest and shiniest toys possible should come as no surprise to anyone...they need to be prepared to defend against 'Terror threats'. And after all, the most recent intelligence tells us that Al-Queda has a plan to sneak into our country, disguised as either middle-aged nuns, children under five, or as little grandmas, use their 4-ounce shampoo bottles to discretely assemble their suicide vests, and scatter around the country, and engage their evil plot of attacking the Magic Kingdom, the Polk County Convention Center, and of course, the ever beloved Corn Palace...

Well my local Sherrif, ex-State Trooper, had an epiphany and realized the gung-ho types on the force were going to get the county sued more often. To his credit he instituted psychological testing and subsequently put 7 guys off the force. These guys may end up in some small town in the county, two did I know of, but they can do a lot less damage there and they aren't dealing with the county's black and hispanic population as much, where a lot of their problem lies.

Since then he's been forced to lay off people, and from what I know the layoffs have been pretty well targeted but there's less cops on the road. His attitude towards concealed carry has gone from negative to sightly warm during this period.

But the toys side of the equation is he kept the county helicopter, for which he is one of the pilots (Vietnam chopper jockey). It's paid for long ago, but the upkeep isn't trivial.

I'm trying to wrap my arms around a scenario where this weapon would actually be used. I can't - at least not by itself. It's got the power to go through a wall, but they'd need to be able to distinguish between actor and victim in such a scenario.

When the Navy SEALs took out those Somali pirates at little while back, they used a special infrared system that hooked into a computer, which then was able to sort out the pirates from the hostage based on heat signature - much like a computerized finger print identification system. Once that was done, it became easy for them to differentiate between actors and victim and take out the pirates while sparing the hostage (the merchant ship master). Aside from being able to differentiate between heat signatures, the real trick was studying their movements in-order-to figure out their routine and select the high value targets.

Now, if the Orlando SWAT guys had such a system to go along with the Barrett, then I can see the value in it. Frinstance, if a hostage situation went south they'd be able to take out the actor(s) through a wall and spare the victims; they'd also be able to minimize the risk of injury or death to other SWAT members who would otherwise be required to storm the position. Short of having a computerized infrared identification system to go with it, however, then the Barrett becomes just another toy.

The Barrett works well as a stand alone system in a setting like Afghanistan, because in a foreign war zone collateral damage issues are not of such great concern. However, a .50 cal without a precise targeting system to back it up has great potential to cause all sorts of hell in a densely populated domestic urban setting.

AmirMortal wrote:Yep, I saw that. I was responding to someones comment in this thread.

They dont need .50s.

dude, to be fair, everyone needs a .50.

din wrote:

AmirMortal wrote:Yep, I saw that. I was responding to someones comment in this thread.

They dont need .50s.

dude, to be fair, everyone needs a .50.

And a grenade launcher.

I took this picture in downtown orlando the other day, outside of their equestrian area. Boy, they do a great job with the ol' taxpayers funds.

Lol that's a custom sign, a stop sign would have been too cheap.

AmirMortal wrote:I am all for SRT and SWAT teams being sufficiently armed, but I agree with the assertion that this is too much for cops to be using in built up urban areas. I firmly believe that the militarization of law enforcement is a dangerous and detrimental direction to proceed.

Agreed friend...I have long spoken out against this.

I have known the times when we had "Peace Officers". Often, you might have an encounter, for what ever reason, and the focus was "keeping the peace"...often for very minor or mediating issues, people might be given a break if no real harm to the peace was evident..more compassion was exhibited.

Now we have "Law Enforcement" officers....it's all about prosecution, realized revenue in city coffers from paid tickting and offenses. There has been a definite rise in the "us against them" attitude..."us" being the LE officer. I read too many accounts and seen to many videos of cops exhibiting very confrontational methods in everyday incidents, and definite buildup of militarized systems and weaponry...even in small rural counties, which is really bunk.

It is very disturbing.


Regards,

CarolinaHiker