Re: Mountain Lion Hunt

54
OK. I didn't notice this thread before but now I'm here. I have nothing against someone posing alongside their kill and even for a trophy as long as the animal is dressed and then the meat is processed and eaten. What I do object to is big dollar guided hunts. And that is the only way you are allowed to hunt on a native reservation. I don't want to rant and I don't want to sound like a racist trumpster. I'm not so I'll stop here.
Last edited by harriss on Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Mountain Lion Hunt

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Most of this thread predates my arrival. I'm not a hunter, but I have friends who do. I am not qualified to assess the most humane way to hunt, but I do trust the guides to have a pretty good idea. I'm not a fan of using dogs in hunting, but for cougars, I can see why. I appreciate the economical use of meat, and the ethical issues of hunting relative to factory farming.

It's been years since I've worked on a reservation, but I do know that many have dire economic situations, and I don't blame any of them for trying to make up for it in any way they can. My general feel is that, unless you're a member, not a damn one of us has any business criticizing how they try to live, so long as very basic precepts of human decency apply.

I have friends in conservation work. Cougars are a complicated species on that front. Near pest levels in places out West. Extirpated across the East. So the ecological impact varies by region.

I appreciated this thread, and the story. I doubt that I would ever do anything like it, and I think there are lots of people who hunt unsustainably - not to mention unethically. I don't see that here. I see 58 thinking through the decisions and the consequences, and I appreciate you walking us through it.

Re: Mountain Lion Hunt

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The parallels of this particular discussion about big cat hunting and the gun tights are interesting to consider if one is able to step back from the issues and see the similarities. There are folks who shoot but don’t hunt and various shades of hunters as well. Those who don’t partake in killing for sport are easily offended by the idea of hunting top predators like cougars. But they’ve never done it, judge it to be barbaric, and willfully stay away from learning anything more about the issue for even the though of it might be repulsive to their sensibilities.

How different is that frame of mind from an anti-gun activist?

Seriously, go down and tick the box of every anti-gun argument you’ve heard and laughed at for their sheer ignorance of firearms and you can see it pretty much playing out here in this thread. Interesting how our mind works isn’t it?

To clarify, I do not hunt and find the idea of taking a life difficult to think about. From the beginning of this thread I’ve been curiously observing my own reactions to the OP’s posts and thought to point out my own foibles here.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Mountain Lion Hunt

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I'm all for native reservations taking advantage of their situation. I live about 50 miles from the Grand Canyon West overlook where a guy from Las Vegas built a see through walkway and the Hualapai Tribe benefits from it. Now speaking of big dollar hunts on native reservations the Hualapai's get $3-4 thousand for a one week Mule Deer trophy hunt. I just wonder how much money the guide gets and how much goes to the tribal coffers.

Re: Mountain Lion Hunt

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harriss wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:39 pm Now speaking of big dollar hunts on native reservations the Hualapai's get $3-4 thousand for a one week Mule Deer trophy hunt. I just wonder how much money the guide gets and how much goes to the tribal coffers.
Every tribal nation has their own way of doing things in their traditional system of government and collaborative economy. It's not my business to impose my capitalist ethics of individual ownership and income on them. If everyone works for "high tax rates" that go into the "tribal coffers" for the "benefit of the community", that's their business. Granted the tribal economies have high rates of "complex traditional systems of social status based on extended familial ties", it's not like anyone is getting rich off the tribal coffers. Different from places like Zimbabwe where the big dollar hunts are supposed to go to the local economy but common people are starving and government officials are living in palaces.

In this particular instance for the cat, the tag was $600 plus the $50 lottery entry that would have gone to the tribal fish and wildlife department coffers. The guide fee, on par with what you've listed, goes directly to the guide. I specifically put the cash in his hand with a healthy tip and watched him split it equally with the other guides. I also saw where the guides and DFW clerk were living. None of them are in mansions, even by rez standards. I don't question the amount is justified. Dog feed isn't cheap. Nor is gas for the trucks to get to where the cats are in the snow.

For deer and elk, trophy tag fees are pretty high, like you note. The guides set their own fees on top of that. Females are cheaper, but not as low as in-state. But you have a much higher rate of success with guides hunting areas they know intimately. That's to hunters' own personal ethics. Personally, I'm generally a meat hunter and antlers on the wall aren't worth the surcharge for me. I paid $900 for a cow tag plus a couple hundred for the guide fee. A lot more expensive than when I do DIY in my home state for a $50 tag, but I knew I was coming home with meat versus better than even odds of a nice camping trip. My own personal ethics don't have an issue with contributing to the tribal coffers if I have it to spare.

I've checked in with that guide and COVID has really taken a toll. All the tribes on this continent have a little bit of a history when it comes to letting outsiders with asymptomatic diseases hang out on tribal lands. So, hunting has been closed pretty much all year. That means he and his other guides are out of work.

Re: Mountain Lion Hunt

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Kitty came home. Took 14 months. Original estimate was 9. First COVID shut the tannery down. Then the rugger got sick with it. Then her mother died from it. Bless my taxidermist for juggling it all.

Still working my way through bratwurst. I had a big dinner planned to feed nearest and dearest his roasts and honor him, but COVID has literally put that on ice. I found a good recipe for carnitas I'm looking forward to.

Kitty.png

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