The Liberal Gun Club Forum

A Drug Cartel Just Defeated The Mexican Military In Battle

The ensuing scene could have been mistaken for Syria or Yemen. Footage posted on social media Thursday showed burning vehicles spewing black smoke, heavily armed gunmen blocking roads, dead bodies strewn in the streets, and residents fleeing for cover amid high-caliber gunfire.

Armed with military-grade weapons and driving custom-built armored vehicles, cartel henchmen targeted security forces throughout Culiacan, launching more than one dozen separate attacks on Mexican security forces. They captured and held hostage eight soldiers, then kidnapped their families. Amid the fighting, an unknown number of inmates escaped from a nearby prison. At least eight people were killed and more than a dozen were injured.

The eight-hour battle ended when government forces, outgunned and surrounded, without reinforcements or a way to retreat, received an order directly from Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador to release their prisoner and surrender. Lopez Obrador later defended this decision, insisting that his security strategy is working and saying, “Many people were at risk and it was decided to protect people’s lives. I agreed with that, because we don’t do massacres, that’s over.”

1) I feel for the people of Mexico
2) Clearly Mexico's strict gun laws aren't working very well
3) End the War on Drugs

Rorschach test. The people who get donations and make money off it will call for more money to militaries, police, border patrol, and prisons (via sentencing). The rest of the country see a reason to legalize and regulate the drugs.

Oh great. I have to go to a wedding in Guadalajara, Jalisco next spring.

tonguengroover wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:46 pm Oh great. I have to go to a wedding in Guadalajara, Jalisco next spring.

Sinaloa is a long way from Jalisco. Just fly into the city. I have never had a problem in Jalisco.

One battle is not a war. Sensational headlines are written by grifters.

CDFingers

CDFingers wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:42 am One battle is not a war. Sensational headlines are written by grifters.

CDFingers

even the events described don't live up to the headline

Did anyone see the footage? I did online and it was pretty close to a war zone. The description was accurate, burning vehicles, dead bodies scattered around the street. No tanks though. Well, DIY armored vehicles. Thousands of people die by the hands of the cartel every year. Plus throw in a few journalists and government officials and people running for office.
Might as well be Afganistan.

It was a two square block war zone. I've had bigger explosions after eating at Cocina Economica. Of course the cartels have welders who make four vehicles and have dozens of guys with full auto AK's. All of whom could easily be crushed by Mexico's actual 250,000 person military if the cartels get out of hand in a country where one hand pays the other. Yawn.

CDFingers

Is this the new "caravans" scare for 2020?

The war on drugs by Republicans and Democrats has really been successful in the US. Republicans and Democrats don't have the balls to even remove marijuana from Schedule I, I'm not optimistic that we'll see sane drug laws and policies soon. Until we are spending more on our law enforcement and military to enforce drug laws and we have these types of battles on this side of the border Americans won't get outraged enough to push change. It has to get a lot worse on this side of the border with open battles which will help to strengthen 2A.

One interview I listened to questioned what was the benefit of bringing El Chapo to this side of the border for trial and incarceration. He was being pushed out by his cartel opponents who just betrayed him to the Americanos to get rid of him. For every El Chapo there are 50 ready to replace him. The Mexican government troops are concerned about loss of life, the cartels don't care who they kill or how many. The article is from The Federalist so they have their agenda.

CDFingers wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:42 am One battle is not a war. Sensational headlines are written by grifters.

CDFingers

I think that's largely correct. I lived in the border towns of Mission and McAllen and ate many a meal and drank many a beer at bars in Reynosa, Matamoros, Nuevo Progresso, and Nuevo Laredo.

And talked to businessmen. And the locals.

Usually when the Mexican Marines (I think that is the Armada) set their minds to it the bad guys die or, at the least, get roughed up and arrested pretty regularly.

Around Reynosa they have Panhard armored vehicles at the border crossings equipped with a mix of .50 machine guns and 40mm grenade launchers, and when there is trouble they roll them out and don't hesitate to use them in an urban setting.

With that said it's no secret that the Mexican military has been playing Whack-a-Mole with the cartels for several years. Border towns like Ciudad Camargo and Ciudad Miguel Aleman are closely held by cartel elements. Every so often the military moves in, famously destroys some of those improvised armored vehicles, maybe arrests a few targets, but the majority of the bad guys flee and when the military moves out they come back out of hiding and it's business as usual.

In relatively minor ways the cartels (who are VERY loosely organized in most cases) are impacting the US border towns. Of course, they are moving drugs and migrants into the USA. They have also been shaking down the RGV drug dealers for several years. A few years back there was a murder trial in the area and it came out that the victim was selling stolen Pemex gasoline in the USA. And so forth.

But yeah, this was an unusual battle against a VERY well connected target. Not at all indicative of what happens in Mexico today.

Well, El Chapo's son is happy. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/worl ... o-son.html

tonguengroover wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:11 pm Well, El Chapo's son is happy. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/worl ... o-son.html

I don't know about the specifics of El Chapo and the cartels in that part of the country, but when the Gulf Cartel was unchallenged in Tamaulipas they were generally looked upon by most locals as a force for good and neighborhood security, just as long as you didn't mess with their primary business of selling dope to the USA. Many people there miss those days.

I predict... I predict Chapo Jr. will not last the year. Caught in the crossfire or simply go missing. The Mexican Army made a tactical withdrawal and was not “defeated” as this sensational title claims. No, Junior will not live to live to stand trial. Things will not go well for him moving forward.