The Liberal Gun Club Forum

In a move critics said exposes both the particular cruelty of General Motors executives and the systemic inhumanity of the American healthcare system, GM on Tuesday stopped covering health insurance premiums for the nearly 50,000 auto workers striking for fair wages and decent benefits.

The move shifts healthcare costs to the United Auto Workers (UAW), which will be forced to reach into its strike fund to pay the bills. As HuffPost reported, UAW negotiators on Monday sought to confirm with GM that workers' benefits would be covered through the end of the month. Hours later, GM said the benefits have been terminated.

"GM's decision to yank healthcare coverage away from their dedicated employees with no warning is heartless and unconscionable," said Mary Kay Henry, president of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU). "GM's actions could put people's lives at risk, from the factory worker who needs treatment for their asthma to the child who relies on their parents' insurance for chemotherapy."

"The UAW workers on the strike lines are showing immense bravery in the face of intimidation," added Henry.

The auto workers' nationwide strike, described as the largest in more than a decade, began just before midnight on Sunday after negotiations between UAW and GM broke down, with union leaders and members accusing management of proposing insulting wage increases and paltry benefits.

As the New York Times reported, GM is pushing for "employees to pay a greater portion of their healthcare costs" even as the company rakes in record-level profits and massive gains from the GOP tax bill.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), a 2020 Democratic presidential candidate, said in a statement Tuesday night that GM's decision to stop healthcare payments "is the type of corporate greed that the American people are sick and tired of."

"At a time when the CEO of General Motors has received a $22 million compensation package and top of the line benefits, it is cruel and outrageous that GM has cut off the healthcare benefits from their employees in a blatant attempt to force the union into submission," said Sanders. "I say to General Motors: Restore the healthcare benefits that your workers have earned and deserve."

Speaking to CNN, Sanders said GM's move spotlights the urgent need for a healthcare system under which workers' insurance cannot be yanked away at the whim of corporate executives.

"Under Medicare for All," said the Vermont senator, "every American—whether you're working, whether you're not working, when you are going from one job to another job—it's there with you."

TrueTexan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:48 am Just another reason to have Medicare for all and take the medical insurance club away from employees.

shinzen wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:41 am But people love their healthcare, especially Union members who fought for it. Erm. Wait.

Bisbee wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:04 pm For a rich country such as our’s, Healthcare is a really human right. This GM gamble merely proves that the current “employer based” healthcare coverage is truly broken and a sham to keep workers afraid.

Medicare for All!

Marlene wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:53 amguillotine

VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:28 pm

Marlene wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:53 amguillotine

What she said.....Guillotine. I pay $520 a month for my health insurance and my Wife's insurance. This is half the bill as my employer pays the same amount - so, my total bill is $1040 a month for insurance that is high deductible. They pay not one cent until I have forked out $4000 and then they pay. So....what if I was like most other people and didn't have $4000 when I needed to have my appendix removed in emergency surgery and was off work for a month?

I have friends in Europe and the UK that swear *this* is why American go crazy and murder their neighbors. We are primarily at will employees and have no right to health care unless we have thousands paid in and thousands in reserve to pay the deductible. And this while the CEO of the insurance companies take home $20 Million a year. I can literally be fired today for any/no reason and not only have I lost my income, I picked up a $1200 a month bill to carry my insurance on COBRA for 18 months.And I have to keep the insurance or potentially die of an illness. And they wonder why folks go nuts....most of US are living in terror of one illness that wipes us out financially. And then GM does a thing like this?

Guillotine Time.

VooDoo

highdesert wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:49 pm I think we'll get to a system where there is a basic health plan that everyone gets through a public option or private carriers and then employers and union contracts can add on additional benefits such as dental, vision... Mandating is unpopular and is like the condescending gun grabbers, "We know what's best for you'"

shinzen wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:50 pm

highdesert wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:49 pm I think we'll get to a system where there is a basic health plan that everyone gets through a public option or private carriers and then employers and union contracts can add on additional benefits such as dental, vision... Mandating is unpopular and is like the condescending gun grabbers, "We know what's best for you'"

I think it's really more of a floor though. If your employer wants to throw out special coverage perks, fine. But basic medical coverage through Medicare as the baseline for everyone is where we need to be. My wife and I are small business owners, so we're 100% out of pocket for premiums ($940) plus high deductibles and high copays- the cheapest plan we can get on the marketplace- and we have to go to Kaiser, whether we like them or not. Health insurance is our second largest expenditure outside of our mortgage easily- and we're fairly healthy folks (knock on wood).

I'd much rather pay that amount (or maybe less) in taxes and have better coverage. And know that it's not going to bankrupt us if something major happens. People talk about choice a lot when it comes to this- with Medicare for all, doctors would take it, as it's the only game in town except for expensive private programs. The savings in fighting with a number of different insurance companies is bit- it will simplify their business as well as simplifying things for consumers.

VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:57 pm I heard tell that something like 70% of the homes lost to foreclosure is because one of the folks paying the mortgage ended up with catastrophic medical bills that forced them into insolvency. My Wife is a ten year cancer survivor - she had multiple surgeries, chemo, radiation and she was stabbed with all kinds of needles and I never, ever saw her cry or lose her sense of humor.

Until the day I came home from work and told her they were changing insurance companies in the middle of the fight and moving to a nebulous "high deductible" plan (and that our deductible which was already met would carry over to the new company...it didn't) and she cried like a baby convinced we'd lose everything and that she'd survive cancer only to die living in a car like we did 40 years ago.

This insurance thing and the GM workers being coerced by have their suspended is heinous. Disgusting....

VooDoo

shinzen wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:50 pm

highdesert wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:49 pm I think we'll get to a system where there is a basic health plan that everyone gets through a public option or private carriers and then employers and union contracts can add on additional benefits such as dental, vision... Mandating is unpopular and is like the condescending gun grabbers, "We know what's best for you'"

I think it's really more of a floor though. If your employer wants to throw out special coverage perks, fine. But basic medical coverage through Medicare as the baseline for everyone is where we need to be. My wife and I are small business owners, so we're 100% out of pocket for premiums ($940) plus high deductibles and high copays- the cheapest plan we can get on the marketplace- and we have to go to Kaiser, whether we like them or not. Health insurance is our second largest expenditure outside of our mortgage easily- and we're fairly healthy folks (knock on wood).

I'd much rather pay that amount (or maybe less) in taxes and have better coverage. And know that it's not going to bankrupt us if something major happens. People talk about choice a lot when it comes to this- with Medicare for all, doctors would take it, as it's the only game in town except for expensive private programs. The savings in fighting with a number of different insurance companies is bit- it will simplify their business as well as simplifying things for consumers.

featureless wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:58 pm

shinzen wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:50 pm

highdesert wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:49 pm I think we'll get to a system where there is a basic health plan that everyone gets through a public option or private carriers and then employers and union contracts can add on additional benefits such as dental, vision... Mandating is unpopular and is like the condescending gun grabbers, "We know what's best for you'"

I think it's really more of a floor though. If your employer wants to throw out special coverage perks, fine. But basic medical coverage through Medicare as the baseline for everyone is where we need to be. My wife and I are small business owners, so we're 100% out of pocket for premiums ($940) plus high deductibles and high copays- the cheapest plan we can get on the marketplace- and we have to go to Kaiser, whether we like them or not. Health insurance is our second largest expenditure outside of our mortgage easily- and we're fairly healthy folks (knock on wood).

I'd much rather pay that amount (or maybe less) in taxes and have better coverage. And know that it's not going to bankrupt us if something major happens. People talk about choice a lot when it comes to this- with Medicare for all, doctors would take it, as it's the only game in town except for expensive private programs. The savings in fighting with a number of different insurance companies is bit- it will simplify their business as well as simplifying things for consumers.

A 20 year snapshot on how we got to the High Deductible Plan and what it used to cost. 20 years ago, when I started professional work, my insurance was fucking amazing. Company paid all but $75 of the premium for my wife and I. Copay was $20 at Kaiser. 16 years ago, it was still very good. My daughter cost us $400 for 2 nights in the hospital and delivery. Today, it would be my $12,000 out of pocket max and my company is paying more for the high deductible plan than they did for the deluxe shit 20 years ago. High deductible plans are the only thing most companies and self employed can afford. Self employed, you're looking at over $20,000 per year if you have any notable health care services and are in the middle class. That is simply unsustainable.

Stiff wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:25 pm Yet idiots keep voting Republicans in with the promise to dismantle Obamacare. Because ‘freedom’.

The US spends more per capita on medication than anywhere else in the world. It's a key electoral issue. From a report on Financial Times (paywalled):
All over the world, drugmakers are granted time-limited monopolies -- in the form of patents -- to encourage innovation. But America is one of the only countries that does not combine this carrot with the stick of price controls. The US government's refusal to negotiate prices has contributed to spiralling healthcare costs which, said billionaire investor Warren Buffett last year, act "as a hungry tapeworm on the American economy." Medical bills are the primary reason why Americans go bankrupt. Employers foot much of the bill for the majority of health-insurance plans for working-age adults, creating a huge cost for business.

In February, Congress called in executives from seven of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies and asked them: why do drugs here cost so much? The drugmakers' answer is that America is carrying the cost of research and development for the rest of the world. They argue that if Americans stopped paying such high prices for drugs, investment in innovative treatments would fall. President Trump agrees with this argument, in line with his "America first" narrative, which sees other countries as guilty of freeloading. For the patients on the trip, the notion is galling: insulin was discovered 100 years ago, by scientists in Canada who sold the patent to the University of Toronto for just $1. The medication has been improved since then but there seems to have been no major innovation to justify tripling the list price for insulin, as happened in the US between 2002 and 2013.

featureless wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:18 pm

Stiff wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:25 pm Yet idiots keep voting Republicans in with the promise to dismantle Obamacare. Because ‘freedom’.

I see your point. However, the ACA hasn't done anything for affordability for those in the middle class. Yes, it has benefited those in a lower income brackets and has been great in the preexisting condition realm. But my and others' insurance rates discussed above have gone nuts (or continued to go nuts, depending on where you start the "oh shit" curve). If rates continue to increase, it will force me out of the middle class. I would suggest that dems hanging their hats on the ACA is a bad idea. Health insurance is going to crush the middle class.