WaPo: The Latest: Friend says man wanted to provoke deadly fight

A friend of the man who authorities say died after throwing explosive devices at an immigration jail in Tacoma says that she thinks he wanted to provoke a fatal conflict, the Seattle Times reports.

Deb Bartley, who tells the Times she has been a friend of Willem Van Spronsen’s for about 20 years, described him as an anarchist and anti-fascist, and believes his attack on the detention center intending to provoke a fatal conflict.

“He was ready to end it,” Bartley told the Times. “I think this was a suicide. But then he was able to kind of do it in a way that spoke to his political beliefs . I know he went down there knowing he was going to die.”

Armed 69-year-old ‘antifascist’ shot dead after firebombing immigration centre

A rifle-armed 69-year-old has been fatally shot by the police after throwing incendiary devices at an immigration centre in Tacoma, Washington

Officers were called to the privately run prison at around 4am where the man, identified in local media as Willem Van Spronsen of Vashon Island, had set a vehicle alight with the explosives.

He is also believed to have attempted to ignite a large propane tank outside the building.

Officers confirmed Van Spronsen was shot dead at the scene, with all four attending officers discharging their weapons.

He was described locally as a committed anarchist and antifascist. One friend of twenty years, Deb Bartley, told The Seattle Times she and others had received letters from him which read “just saying goodbye” along with what she described as a manifesto.She added: “I think this was a suicide. But then he was able to kind of do it in a way that spoke to his political beliefs... I know he went down there knowing he was going to die.”

Suicide by cop, it's traumatic for the cops.

I wonder why he thought this would be a good idea? A lot of innocent people could have been hurt. The whole thing is tragic.

Mental illness doesn't have a political affiliation.

senorgrand wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:11 pm Mental illness doesn't have a political affiliation.

Yes !

senorgrand wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:11 pm Mental illness doesn't have a political affiliation.

I'm not so sure about that...look who is in the White House...

SR

Apparently he wanted to disable the deportation busses.

I think a poorly chosen strategy combined with an intense (and correct) desire to change the situation and a willingness to sacrifice for the good of others cost this man his life. I think jumping to armchair mental health assessments and disavowal is probably wrong in this case. We aren’t talking about a mass shooting. We are talking about a failed attempt at sabotage.

I’m sad to see such bad choices lead to the loss of someone so clearly committed to protecting others from evil.

The media makes it seem to be something it wasn't, as usual. The Fox-inspired anti-antifa headline itself is misleading. How about:

"69-year-old activist killed for attempting to disable deportation buses"

Still accurate, less misleading.

Was this guy's name "John Brown" by any chance?

Marlene wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:44 pm Apparently he wanted to disable the deportation busses.

I think a poorly chosen strategy combined with an intense (and correct) desire to change the situation and a willingness to sacrifice for the good of others cost this man his life. I think jumping to armchair mental health assessments and disavowal is probably wrong in this case. We aren’t talking about a mass shooting. We are talking about a failed attempt at sabotage.

I’m sad to see such bad choices lead to the loss of someone so clearly committed to protecting others from evil.

Nope, we are talking about act of terrorism.

hondo2K0 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:55 pm

Marlene wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:44 pm Apparently he wanted to disable the deportation busses.

I think a poorly chosen strategy combined with an intense (and correct) desire to change the situation and a willingness to sacrifice for the good of others cost this man his life. I think jumping to armchair mental health assessments and disavowal is probably wrong in this case. We aren’t talking about a mass shooting. We are talking about a failed attempt at sabotage.

I’m sad to see such bad choices lead to the loss of someone so clearly committed to protecting others from evil.

Nope, we are talking about act of terrorism.

Like all those terrorists in the Warsaw Ghetto?

very much like those terrorists

Eris wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:58 pm

hondo2K0 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:55 pm

Marlene wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:44 pm Apparently he wanted to disable the deportation busses.

I think a poorly chosen strategy combined with an intense (and correct) desire to change the situation and a willingness to sacrifice for the good of others cost this man his life. I think jumping to armchair mental health assessments and disavowal is probably wrong in this case. We aren’t talking about a mass shooting. We are talking about a failed attempt at sabotage.

I’m sad to see such bad choices lead to the loss of someone so clearly committed to protecting others from evil.

Nope, we are talking about act of terrorism.

Like all those terrorists in the Warsaw Ghetto?

Don't be overdramatic nor insulting toward the suffering of Polish Jews. It is beneath you

He was a terrorist's who attacked people doing their job and in the end could end up hurting those housed in that facility.

But do tell if his name was Ali Abdul El would you felt the same way?

hondo2K0 wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:33 am Don't be overdramatic nor insulting toward the suffering of Polish Jews. It is beneath you

He was a terrorist's who attacked people doing their job and in the end could end up hurting those housed in that facility.

But do tell if his name was Ali Abdul El would you felt the same way?

His name makes no difference. Why would I feel differently if he had a different name?

The situation is this: ICE and CBP are doing things to children which would be prosecuted as extreme child abuse if anyone outside of government did them. They are keeping people who came to this country legally seeking refuge in jails and separating their families for no reason other than to punish them. These are human rights abuses, but all most of us do is bitch and moan online. Quite simply put I refuse to call opposition to human rights abuses "terrorism". I'd call it that if he had killed or even tried to kill people who were not involved, but the reports so far are that he attacked property only and no innocent people were targeted.

Nope they did not come legally
Nothing is being done to those children by ICE or CBP
In the end parents are responsible for making sure that their children are safe and sound

Nope they did not come legally
Nothing is being done to those children by ICE or CBP
In the end parents are responsible for making sure that their children are safe and sound

So he was terrorist

Reminds me of guy who opened fire on rep. Playing baseball

And yes you would feel different if his name sounded foreign

You might. They won’t. I forgot, why are you here?

They’re illegal sounds very Fox News.

That moment when we condone or try to justify terroristic actions like this one we are setting ourselves to be targeted by those who disagree with us.

He could protest he could write,call his representatives even hire lawyer and try to take them to court instead attacking and trying to detonate gas tank( it works like that just in movies) his actions put at risk those whom he allegedly was trying to protect/save from deportation
Not to mention people who work there beside detention officers there are cooks custodians nurses bunch of folks who are making detention easier

Inquisitor wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:58 am You might. They won’t. I forgot, why are you here?

They’re illegal sounds very Fox News.

Yes they shall trust. Guy with funny sounding name
Because it is fact that moment you enter USA or any other country for that matter without approval or you overstay your visa you commited a crime ergo you are criminal
Ergo you are illegal here
Just because fox saying something it does not make it less correct
Or you prefer fox like echo chamber wher different in this case educated opinion is heresy?

There is no excuse for terroristic actions in the USA where legal system works

And when I say funny sounding name trust me liberal conservative dem rep libertarian all that in the end amount to same bigotry toward us with those funny names
You know "us people"

hondo2K0 wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:50 am Nope they did not come legally
Nothing is being done to those children by ICE or CBP
In the end parents are responsible for making sure that their children are safe and sound

So he was terrorist

Reminds me of guy who opened fire on rep. Playing baseball

1) if you enter the USA and ask for asylum you're not here illegally UNDER CURRENT FEDERAL LAW!
2) You're right nothing's being done to, oops, FOR, these children by ICE and CBP and their private prisons. They are not being washed, given soap, toothbrushes, toothpaste, beds, clean clothing, blankets, clean water, decent food, protection from the elements, a chance to play, etc. A whole LOT of nothing!
3) I'll bet you're the sort of person who says "if you don't like what's happening here in America, love it or leave it!" Well, these folks don't love the gangs WE sent to their countries. They don't love the drought. They don't love the sex traffickers. They don't love the drug dealers. They don't love the police and border patrols in league with the sex traffickers and drug dealers. They don't love their corrupted government, or their phony "courts." They really don't love that their children are in both physical and nutritional danger every day. So they left those horrible conditions, conditions that not only WE, the USA brought on them, but that we, especially Trump, is making worse by cutting off even the aid that help them there, in his sadistic and moronic idea that the only way to deal with these dirt-poor nations is with a big stick.
My youngest was born in the Northern Triangle. I shudder to think what he, at 14, would be facing right now if he was still there. Stunted growth, little if any education, possibly recruited into gangs, on threat of death--a horrible life. I see people struggling to get out of the NT who look a lot like him, could be relatives, cousins, etc. and it makes my blood run cold to see the vicious neo-nazi ways they are treated.

They aren't "the other". They are people, just like you and me, who, in utter desperation, are trying to PROTECT their children. They aren't "irresponsible"--they are REFUGEES!

Naturally, with all the dozens of terrorist attacks by racists, fascists, White supremacists, the only one YOU cite is the one, failed attack where only the perp died.
Charleston? Silence.
Parkland? Silence.
Pittsburgh Synagogue? Silence

According to the ADL, almost ALL of the 50 terrorist murders in the United States in 2018 were committed by...RIGHT WING RACIST EXTREMISTS!
https://www.adl.org/media/12480/download

Yet the only one YOU cite is the failed baseball game attack, where only the perp died.

That tells me EXACTLY where YOU stand on all this with your typical right-wing "What About?ism"--defending Trumpism, another name for Fascism.

Yes you are unless you are from Mexico or Canada
You must ask for asylum in first safe country and Mexico is first world country
Nope they are given everything and provided care but they arrive there looking like that due to long journey so it is bs or at best partial truth aka missleading info

Ranting as usual and talking about fixing world problems and blaming failed states for conditions they are in on USA

Maybe they should stay and try to fix their country
Or there is novel idea try and jump through hoops like for example I back in a day?

As I explained long time ago to you they are not refugees as they are not granted such status in the eyes of the law in the USA so the are undocumented immigrants aka illegal aliens
I don't really care what you think
Those two who shoot up school on Colorado last month were white supremacist too?

There is hate crime and there is terrorism
Difference is terrorist trying to influence politics or change political system by force
Hate crime is disgusting but does not have intention to change political system