Bernie Sanders 2020

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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I received a Warren fundraising email that claimed they were attacked by Sanders. How is this an attack (“people who support [Elizabeth] are highly-educated, more affluent people.”)?
Bernie Sanders’ campaign is instructing volunteers to dismiss our broad-based, inclusive campaign by saying the “people who support [Elizabeth] are highly-educated, more affluent people.”

When I heard that description, I didn’t recognize it. That doesn’t describe me or many of the passionate volunteers and organizers I know. This type of attack isn’t about disagreeing on issues — it’s about dismissing the potency of our grassroots movement.
I promptly cancelled my small recurring donations to Warren after she claimed he dismissed women candidates while Bernie says its a lie. Warren's campaign wanted me to take sides because Bernie is the frontrunner, so I chose a side.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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Good choice, K9s. I like a lot of things about Warren's platform but I'm not convinced I like Warren. And yes, she's definitely the candidate of highly educated affluent Dems.

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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featureless wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:37 pm
Good choice, K9s. I like a lot of things about Warren's platform but I'm not convinced I like Warren. And yes, she's definitely the candidate of highly educated affluent Dems.
Warren was better than most of the rest, but I won't help finance that crap.

I will vote for her if she gets the nomination, though. I am not crazy.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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Me too.

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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I just registered as a Democrat so I can vote when the primary comes to my state. I switched to non-affiliated after the 2016 primary debacle.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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Warren waits three weeks before caucuses to let us know what happened over a year ago. umm, whether it happened or not (and it probably did), holding it in her back pocket until now is pretty f'd up.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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senorgrand wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:12 pm
Warren waits three weeks before caucuses to let us know what happened over a year ago. umm, whether it happened or not (and it probably did), holding it in her back pocket until now is pretty f'd up.
Yeah, that was my thinking. Not cool. Every media outlet is pretending this is actually a progressive showdown so they can tear down the anti-oligarchy candidates.

And, now, the Trumpians are all over it and calling Bernie anti-women (irony, yeah).
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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Something was bound to blow, the two New England liberals have similar positions on issues and have bases of white college educated voters under 50. I'm just afraid that if the nominee isn't Sanders or Warren that some of their young supporters will just sit out the general election in November.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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highdesert wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:31 pm
Something was bound to blow, the two New England liberals have similar positions on issues and have bases of white college educated voters under 50. I'm just afraid that if the nominee isn't Sanders or Warren that some of their young supporters will just sit out the general election in November.
Shit. I might sit it out if it's Biden. (not sure how serious I am)

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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between the two, it's a simple choice for me. warren proposed to impose firearm restrictions via executive order. we would have to rely on the courts to restrain this eventually (too late). bernie said that doing such would likely be unconstitutional.
bernie is the ONLY candidate i've heard express any interest in working within the constitution. don't get me wrong, i'll hold my nose and vote for warren if she's the nominee, but she's not, not, not my first choice.

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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featureless wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:36 pm
Shit. I might sit it out if it's Biden. (not sure how serious I am)
i'm sorry, but if you do that and donnie wins, i'm going to have some harsh words for you.

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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Bernie isn't going to push an AWB the first day or ever. He might get pushed into it - maybe - but he certainly isn't a gun hater. He understands it is a wedge issue and won't take the bait to get a GOP backlash.

If Biden is the candidate, I, too, worry that a lot of people will stay home again. I don't blame them. If the DNC pushes its candidates forward and loses again, there will be a reckoning in 2022 and 2024.

By that point, the left could have a decent third-party run against Pence, Don Jr, and Tulsi in the right wing Russia-backed and Saudi-backed oil parties and some generic moderate Dems in the centrist China-backed parties and bank-financed parties.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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K9s wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:01 pm
If Biden is the candidate, I, too, worry that a lot of people will stay home again. I don't blame them. If the DNC pushes its candidates forward and loses again, there will be a reckoning in 2022 and 2024.
That's my fear, the internal war keeps going and will it ensure a Republican (in the Trump mold) wins in 2024?

More polling of IA and NH as we get closer. Nate Silver at 538
We don’t necessarily plan to publish an Election Update as a result of each single new poll, but Friday’s Selzer & Co. poll of the Iowa caucuses, published by the Des Moines Register and CNN, warrants an exception and did have a somewhat material effect on the model.

Why is it worth focusing on this one individual poll — something that we’d usually advise against?

Selzer & Co. is a very good pollster, one of the best in the business. There haven’t been a lot of polls of Iowa recently.

Iowa is pretty darn important, at least in terms of how our model thinks about the race, with the potential to produce fairly large bounces that will affect the rest of the calendar.

The poll showed Bernie Sanders ahead with 20 percent of the vote, followed by Elizabeth Warren at 17 percent, Pete Buttigieg at 16 percent and Joe Biden at 15 percent. This is a reasonably big shift from the previous Selzer & Co. poll, in November, which had shown Buttigieg ahead with 25 percent of the vote. (Although, for reasons I’ll get to in a moment, the model views the latest poll as more neutral than negative for Buttigieg.) Amy Klobuchar was next in the poll at 6 percent, but that was unchanged from November despite a couple of debate performances since November that voters rated strongly in our polling with Ipsos. Andrew Yang was sixth at 5 percent.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/el ... iowa-race/
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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lurker wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:41 pm
featureless wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:36 pm
Shit. I might sit it out if it's Biden. (not sure how serious I am)
i'm sorry, but if you do that and donnie wins, i'm going to have some harsh words for you.
Oh, I'm sure I'll fall in line (ca will go Dem, so it doesn't really matter who I vote for, or if I don't check a box next to pres). It's just very difficult to vote for a corporate Dem who is openly crowing for gun bans. Won't get anything out of it except, perhaps, to slow the hemorrhaging of the current administration along with the message that we want more of the same from the Dems. It isn't a path toward a progressive agenda.

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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featureless wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:47 pm
slow the hemorrhaging of the current administration along with the message that we want more of the same from the Dems. It isn't a path toward a progressive agenda.
i understand and agree with your thinking, :beer2: i'm just not confident that the republic can survive another 4 years of this.

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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lurker wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:08 pm
featureless wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:47 pm
slow the hemorrhaging of the current administration along with the message that we want more of the same from the Dems. It isn't a path toward a progressive agenda.
i understand and agree with your thinking, :beer2: i'm just not confident that the republic can survive another 4 years of this.

Same fear here, featureless and lurker.

Win with Biden, and the DNC claims a "moderate" white male is the winning way (just forget about HRC and Bernie). The media on all sides will continue to hammer AOC while supporters will push her to run in 2024 or 2028. She would become the new Bernie socialist threat to the media moguls and corporate-owned politicians.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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The feud just keeps going.
Supporters of the two Democratic hopefuls [Sanders and Warren] hurled insults and fresh attacks Wednesday while progressive leaders sought to bring about peace, fearing an outcome — the elevation of a comparative moderate like Joe Biden — that none of the antagonists wish to see.

“Every minute spent talking about the drama between these two people might end up with a Democratic nominee worse for millions of people,” said Adam Green, a Warren supporter who is co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee. “Both sides know that.”

The two campaigns declined to comment and neither candidate spoke publicly about their dispute, Warren’s cold shoulder or the rising tensions between backers of the two U.S. senators. At issue is whether Sanders questioned Warren’s electability as a woman running for president.
Sanders supporters immediately flooded Twitter with images likening Warren to a snake. Warren defenders hurled back charges of misogyny, an accusation that plagued Sanders’ 2016 campaign against Hillary Clinton. Those caught between them despaired.
Immediately after the debate, however, Warren approached Sanders and declined to shake his hand. The two then engaged in a brief but animated discussion that was captured and played repeatedly on cable television and social media. Audio of the exchange surfaced late Wednesday.

“I think you called me a liar on national TV,” Warren said, according to footage aired Wednesday night on CNN, a debate co-sponsor. “You called me a liar,” Sanders replied. “You told me ... all right, let’s not do it now.”

The danger is that animosities between the candidates, and especially their supporters, could end up hurting both and helping other candidates. The likeliest beneficiary would appear to be Biden, who is leading national polls and effectively running even with Sanders and Warren in Iowa, which casts the first votes of the campaign on Feb. 3.
Until recently, that friction had largely centered around die-hard Sanders supporters questioning Warren’s credentials as a left-wing progressive, an assertion that may be puzzling to those less inclined to ideological parsing.

Critics have cited Warren’s description of herself as a “capitalist to my bones,” her past registration as a Republican and the relative affluence of her supporters compared to those backing Sanders.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/ ... y-fighting

The purity wars.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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:facepalm: divide and conquer mission accomplished, vladimir, sir!

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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She's angling for VP. She should get it. Biden SoS. Gets many of the primary voters and will crush.

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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CDFingers wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:17 am
She's angling for VP. She should get it. Biden SoS. Gets many of the primary voters and will crush.

CDFingers
I agree with that. Warren's campaign is milking this for all they can. I guess politics is politics.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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Trump is trying to boost Bernie as a candidate again. Trump people claim they want to run against Bernie most of all.

I remember thinking Trump would ensure a Hillary victory. I wonder if the Trump campaign really believes Bernie is the one they want to take on? It might not work out so well.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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K9s wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:05 pm
Trump is trying to boost Bernie as a candidate again. Trump people claim they want to run against Bernie most of all.

I remember thinking Trump would ensure a Hillary victory. I wonder if the Trump campaign really believes Bernie is the one they want to take on? It might not work out so well.
Trump and Republicans salivate at the thought of Bernie the socialist being the Democratic nominee. Funny for them socialism is far worse than cosying up to Russia and Communist China.
Owners Are Wary of Warren and Sanders

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/17/busi ... iness.html
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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Even funnier... the GOP is the real Soviet-style party. The Trump trade deal with China is governments deciding on trade for their friends. The GOP economics are a mix of Soviet state-controlled planning and Communist Chinese mercantilism all to benefit the oligarchy and The Party.
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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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A critique of a David Brooks column has this gem:
Here, Sanders argues that billionaires are “impoverishing” other Americans to the extent that they are blocking the creation of new social rights and protections. Although Sanders is also concerned with strengthening workers’ bargaining power, he maintains that equalizing the distribution of market income is insufficient. Eliminating poverty requires taxing the rich to finance health care, housing, child care, and other social benefits for ordinary workers. And he is indisputably correct.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/ ... s-war.html

In the article is this:

Image

Dis elect all Republicans and make them work retail for a couple years.

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Re: Bernie Sanders 2020

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that top graph clearly shows where everyone's economic opportunity is going. at some point they'll have milked us all dry, and then they'll look for ways to bring slavery back, presumably under a different name. or exterminate us because we are a danger to them, and no longer useful.

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